Crypto Casinos vs money laundering. - page 9.

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Quote from: serjent05 on September 17, 2022, 05:55:20 PM

Quote from: blockman on September 17, 2022, 03:52:12 PM

Quote from: SirLancelot on September 17, 2022, 03:03:44 PM

I don't think authorities will shutdown a service easily but they will first check it if the service is following a protocol to avoid the money launders.

They can close it in an instant if there's a proper basis and court order. But for that first offense, they'll just give them a penalty and the establish has to pay for it.
They'll do an investigation and when it's proven, they'll have an assessment and basis on what action must be taken. The authorities won't just come and go without any evidence provided to these establishments without proper research and basis.

It is instant after the decree is issued but it will take some time depending on the severity of the crime. Authority cannot shutdown a service easily unless proven guilty of the accused crime. It takes process and often times when the attorney of the service provider is well versed with the system the process takes months to years before the decision is made.

Yes, that's what I'm saying and that's why there's a due process and proper procedure before they do that. It is out of law if they force closure without due process.
These businesses and establishments know also the law about it and that's why if there are authorities that have done it to them, they can sue them and put it properly in the court.

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Quote from: 348Judah on September 18, 2022, 01:12:56 PM

Quote from: decodx on September 17, 2022, 01:25:48 PM

Quote from: Invester on September 17, 2022, 12:28:48 PM

KYC is not enough for crypto casinos? Crypto casinos should check all its players source of funds?

I'm not siding with the casinos on this, but that's probably what the regulators and authorities are asking them to do. Similar to how banks ask you for a statement about the source of funds when you want to deposit or withdraw a large sum of money. Only thing that I find unfair about casinos is that they do not ask for this information when making deposits or when registering, but when withdrawing money after winning. So basically, people that move large sums of money into the casino are not being asked to do this, but people that just won a moderate amount of money are.

When has the casinos turn to AML agency or government personell that has the institutions of banks KYC in there mandates, as a matter of fact an average seriously minded casino should not demand for KYC because it will chase gamblers away from them, are they government, if we needed KYC then the ones experienced from banks were enough and not in gambling again, it enough, crypto gamblings are not the initiators of money laundering, this is what has been in place right from history of time,

But a smart casino will definitely follow the government requirement of KYC implementation. It is better to lose some players than being shutdown totally by the government authority. As a Casino that wanted to have a smooth operation and labeled as legal company by the authority, they need to follow the authority rules. We are not in an anarchy so the casino need to follow rules and regulation so that they can operate with peace of mind.

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Quote from: Viscore on September 18, 2022, 02:05:14 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

Let's be honest, money laundering is the best thing that can happen to a casino and there is where most of high rollers comes from. I have seen some rollers in the past that runs some huge scams and then go to the casinos to play with the scammed money and with that justify where they get the money from after hitting some huge wins.

Nowadays most casinos has KYC, but i don't think that is enough to stop the money laundering, what casinos should do is to investigate the source of the deposits to fight against this illegal activity, but that will not happen because is a win-win game from them.

So, what do you say, does crypto casinos really care about money laundering?

Of course they care but what they care the most are the profits that they will gained from their players. Building casinos are big time businesses, so if there are high rollers coming in, that means huge profits for the casinos. Although there may be some suspicious acts particularly for high bettors, but KYC is never enough to trace illegal money transactions. There should be high surveillance placed in casinos so that people involved in money laundering will be easily caught and arrested.

So it is the money that they care not about the money laundering thing. A surveillance camera in an online casino? How would that work? If you are talking about land based casino, they have cctv everywhere so I don't think having no surveillance camera would be an issue.

Casino become concerned over KYC when the authority demanded them to implement the procedure but originally, I think Casino would love to avoid the implementation of KYC if possible because it shies away potential whales that value their privacy too much.

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Quote from: erep on September 18, 2022, 01:02:51 PM

If transactions only on blockchain it will be difficult to detect whether money laundering or not, but if user has deposited funds into casino account then casino can restrict withdrawals or freeze funds before user verify KYC. if KYC only uses identity documents without selfies then it is not effective enough because it can still be manipulated from using fake data. However, even if casinos quibble KYC rules for safety factor but still not all gamblers will agree with strict KYC rules even to prevent AML on casino sites.

Sending trough blockchain could detected when assets sent to casino account or try to cash out by sending to exchange market, not reason selling huge bitcoin assets trough convert to another digital currency transaction like PayPal. But casino account can manipulated by using fake KYC because nowadays many channel group give service by selling casino account have been verified by document ID.

How smart rule for adapting with money laundering I think always have little way how to manipulated this transaction kinds, how ever not all gambler want to show their ID by uploading document on casino account website. Almost with casino gambling have been adapting with KYC need to submit with selfies after have use document ID like ID card or using passport.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

Let's be honest, money laundering is the best thing that can happen to a casino and there is where most of high rollers comes from. I have seen some rollers in the past that runs some huge scams and then go to the casinos to play with the scammed money and with that justify where they get the money from after hitting some huge wins.

Nowadays most casinos has KYC, but i don't think that is enough to stop the money laundering, what casinos should do is to investigate the source of the deposits to fight against this illegal activity, but that will not happen because is a win-win game from them.

So, what do you say, does crypto casinos really care about money laundering?

Of course they care but what they care the most are the profits that they will gained from their players. Building casinos are big time businesses, so if there are high rollers coming in, that means huge profits for the casinos. Although there may be some suspicious acts particularly for high bettors, but KYC is never enough to trace illegal money transactions. There should be high surveillance placed in casinos so that people involved in money laundering will be easily caught and arrested.

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Quote from: decodx on September 17, 2022, 01:25:48 PM

Quote from: Invester on September 17, 2022, 12:28:48 PM

KYC is not enough for crypto casinos? Crypto casinos should check all its players source of funds?

I'm not siding with the casinos on this, but that's probably what the regulators and authorities are asking them to do. Similar to how banks ask you for a statement about the source of funds when you want to deposit or withdraw a large sum of money. Only thing that I find unfair about casinos is that they do not ask for this information when making deposits or when registering, but when withdrawing money after winning. So basically, people that move large sums of money into the casino are not being asked to do this, but people that just won a moderate amount of money are.

When has the casinos turn to AML agency or government personell that has the institutions of banks KYC in there mandates, as a matter of fact an average seriously minded casino should not demand for KYC because it will chase gamblers away from them, are they government, if we needed KYC then the ones experienced from banks were enough and not in gambling again, it enough, crypto gamblings are not the initiators of money laundering, this is what has been in place right from history of time,

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Quote from: fullhdpixel on September 18, 2022, 10:45:09 AM

If it's only the transaction alone, it will be hard for the authorities to find out the launderer because they can use a mixing service but KYC is more effective because this includes their name and addresses on where they live. Faking KYC will also be hard because KYC verification now are more stricter.

If transactions only on blockchain it will be difficult to detect whether money laundering or not, but if user has deposited funds into casino account then casino can restrict withdrawals or freeze funds before user verify KYC. if KYC only uses identity documents without selfies then it is not effective enough because it can still be manipulated from using fake data. However, even if casinos quibble KYC rules for safety factor but still not all gamblers will agree with strict KYC rules even to prevent AML on casino sites.

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Quote from: virasisog on September 17, 2022, 09:32:26 AM

Quote from: Reatim on September 17, 2022, 03:04:37 AM

Quote from: |MINER| on September 17, 2022, 02:48:42 AM

I don't think casinos, gambling websites couldn't stop money laundering what they can actually do is with the kyc data it can help when the investigation agency is approached for investigation. However, gambling websites have become one of the biggest part of money laundering by evading the investigators, but I think good reputable casinos require this kyc data to stop it and I also think it plays a great role in the investigation.

you cannot just Imply KYC in crypto gambling because you knew that people here mostly wanted privacy and hates providing KYC when they gamble and also depends in how much are the amount being launder because criminal and syndicate nowadays knows how to use gambling platform as form of laundering .,

Money launderers will always prefer casinos that won't ask for KYC so they can't keep their identities when betting. KYC is one of the reasons for authorities to track them as well as their transactions so they will definitely choose not to use sites that would ask for KYC. Criminals could easily keep their laundered money and use it to gamble. There were just unlucky gamblers who got caught through their gambling activities but most criminals nowadays already know what to do.

This may be the reason why some licensed casinos don't require a KYC but they will only surprise the money launderers once they are now in the withdrawal page. Of course if you are a money launderer you will be scared for this but if you know that you are innocent, you will choose to do a KYC only to prove the casino that they are wrong with their accusations.

If it's only the transaction alone, it will be hard for the authorities to find out the launderer because they can use a mixing service but KYC is more effective because this includes their name and addresses on where they live. Faking KYC will also be hard because KYC verification now are more stricter.

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Quote from: LoyceV on September 18, 2022, 01:03:26 AM

Wagering 1x doesn't change anything if it's money laundering, other than the casino taking it's house edge from the laundered money.

Depositing and withdrawing doesn't mean it's money laundering.

You hit the nail mate, if a user deposit and withdraw the authority could ask where the depo comes from, and that's why this practice isn't a smart move or a real way to wash that money. A huge win with a big multiplier should be involved.

And for those who say that it's easier to do this with cash, we are talking about how people wash their cryptos with casinos, we know there are tons of scams out there, and those coins comes from illegal activities.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

Let's be honest, money laundering is the best thing that can happen to a casino and there is where most of high rollers comes from. I have seen some rollers in the past that runs some huge scams and then go to the casinos to play with the scammed money and with that justify where they get the money from after hitting some huge wins.

Nowadays most casinos has KYC, but i don't think that is enough to stop the money laundering, what casinos should do is to investigate the source of the deposits to fight against this illegal activity, but that will not happen because is a win-win game from them.

When huge funds are involved, KYC is something any user would be willing to give and fir Casinos to go above that and demand fir source of funds seems a little bit too much as, customer would have there suspicion and something to hold on to. The few that might go through successfully are likely not going to ever play on the casino and won't hesitate to paint the casino red as to warn orders of the potentiality of loosing there funds to KYC and other means of verifications.

Quote

So, what do you say, does crypto casinos really care about money laundering?

Don't they? I actually think they do but are likely to keep a low profile and focus on the wins rather than the deposits itself because they hope to collect from lost bets. Yeah, seizing funds while probing the source of funds could be one way to it but, it would immediately paint the casino red and they won't want that. Else, huge deposit is for sure a suspicious act and that's what the casinos watch out for.

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Quote from: Stalker22 on September 17, 2022, 03:52:50 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 17, 2022, 09:01:10 AM

You keep writing nonsense.

Thank you for that. I think you are lovely too, in your own way.

Reminder:

Quote from: Stalker22 on September 14, 2022, 03:08:59 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 14, 2022, 02:07:14 PM

In principle, I don’t see anything wrong with this, because if the police couldn’t catch the criminal while committing a crime, then there’s nothing to be done, and if he pays taxes, then that’s good.

Imagine if someone stole your car and then the next day showed up on the car market selling it. The police would be like, "Well, we could not catch him while he was stealing your car, and now he is free to sell it at the market." That cannot be right, because legally speaking, you are still the rightful owner of that car.

The same principle applies to money, because money obtained illegally belongs to the original owner(s) and not to criminals.

On my logical reasoning, you wrote nonsense (an incorrect analogy, and if you did not know, an analogy is always a mistake).
Either defend your position, or admit that you write nonsense Wink

Quote from: Stalker22 on September 17, 2022, 03:52:50 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 17, 2022, 09:01:10 AM

That the police caught someone trying to launder money still counts as "caught in the act," right? Money laundering is also a crime and in an ideal world they are also preventable. You can answer a simple question for me: if the fraudster is not caught, then which option is better: 1.) he paid taxes on his criminal income. 2.) didn't pay taxes? I continue to consider the first case a lesser evil than the second. What do you think?

If you could show me an example of a criminal paying taxes on his income from criminal activity, I would greatly appreciate it.

Once again you avoided answering a simple question. Why am I not surprised Grin

It is easy to write nonsense about a fictional ideal world, but it is difficult to be in reality.

As for examples, there are many of them both now and in history. Look where the expression "money laundering" came from - this is exactly the case when the criminal whitewashed its money through a fake business, that is, it actually paid taxes on its criminal income. Personally, I know a butcher shop owner who only bought it to have an uncontrolled (weakly controlled) cash flow.

P.S. I understand that you, like most people who make a mistake, will never admit it. And I will never hear an answer to my question, what is better 1.) criminal not caught and not paying taxes, or 2.) criminal not caught, but paying taxes Roll Eyes

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When we talk about money laundering, it also happens in the gambling industry but unfortunately, we don't know for sure and can only guess it. Maybe people who want to launder money will look for a reliable casino site so that the casino does not suspect their actions. And sometimes, the casinos can also be tricked even though they have implemented KYC for their members because money launderers are very smart. And with the existence of crypto casinos now giving money launderers the choice to do so because there are still crypto casinos that do not strictly implement KYC so they are free to do so.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on September 17, 2022, 06:28:04 PM

I came across an incident in which two persons who used the stolen funds on gambling to make it their winning amount. Online rummy is quite popular in my country and in one incident two persons have stolen a big amount and to make this money legal they've made a good plan. Both played one on one game and the losers amount moved to the winner. Here both are winners, finally they got caught. So, in all possible ways people do laundering. It is not limited to just casino platforms.

Those two are very smart to stole money, but dumb when they try to launder it through gambling platforms. While their plan is really good, perhaps they failed to realized that they might be caught with this style because I would say that this is a common thing that criminals do to launder money.

So I guess the gambling industry is also evolving, not just KYC, maybe they have human and then AI to detect any suspicious activities in their platform so that they be one step ahead, controls is the key for them not to be taken advantage and so mitigate the attractiveness of online gambling platforms for money launderers

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Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

Let's be honest, money laundering is the best thing that can happen to a casino and there is where most of high rollers comes from.

I think you're right. I wrote this last week:

Quote from: LoyceV on September 13, 2022, 03:41:28 AM

If I'd want to launder stolen money through a casino, I'd make one large high risk bet (say x10). If I win, I can prove that 90% of my money came from being very lucky at a casino! If I lose, I move on to the next casino.
So anyone betting $100k in one bet and winning $1M could very well be laundering money! Anyone losing $100k and abandoning their account could very well have attempted to launder the money! But someone who deposits and withdraws a couple hundred bucks doesn't mean he's he's laundering the money, and even if he would try that way, it wouldn't do him any good.

I guess casinos don't investigate users who lose $100k and leave Shocked

I've seen many cases in which a casino suddenly asks KYC after winning. That's because they don't like paying, but they totally don't mind taking the money when people lose.

Quote from: seoincorporation on September 13, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

Nowadays most casinos has KYC, but i don't think that is enough to stop the money laundering, what casinos should do is to investigate the source of the deposits to fight against this illegal activity, but that will not happen because is a win-win game from them.

If they'd truely care about money laundering, they'd ask KYC and details about the origin of the funds before allowing to deposit. But they don't care, and as long as they're hiding in shady tax havens, they get away with it.

Quote from: ryzaadit on September 13, 2022, 04:42:20 PM

But the case for "Money Laundry" most casino have a golden rules, each deposit need to have 1x turnover before they withdraw. So, the user need to completed first the turn over otherwise is gonna to get "KYC".

I wrote something about that last week too:

Quote from: LoyceV on September 11, 2022, 07:19:25 AM

Casinos want you to wager because they earn from it.

Wagering 1x doesn't change anything if it's money laundering, other than the casino taking it's house edge from the laundered money.

Check the definition:

Quote from: LoyceV on September 13, 2022, 03:41:28 AM

Quote from: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moneylaundering.asp

Money laundering is the illegal process of making large amounts of money generated by criminal activity, such as drug trafficking or terrorist funding, appear to have come from a legitimate source.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

Money laundering is the process of concealing the origin of money, obtained from illicit activities such as drug trafficking, corruption, embezzlement or gambling, by converting it into a legitimate source.

Quote from: https://www.fatf-gafi.org/faq/moneylaundering/

Money laundering is the processing of these criminal proceeds to disguise their illegal origin.

Quote from: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/definition/money-laundering

An abundance of black money leads to the origin of several illegal practices, and money laundering is one such process to disguise the source of such funds.

Quote from: https://www.bankrate.com/glossary/m/money-laundering/

Money laundering is the practice of making money that was gained through criminal means, such as smuggling weapons, look as if it came from a legitimate business activity.

Quote from: https://www.ganintegrity.com/compliance-glossary/money-laundering/

The intention of money laundering is to make illegally obtained money appear to come from a legitimate source.

Quote from: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/money_laundering

Money laundering refers to a financial transaction scheme that aims to conceal the identity, source, and destination of illicitly-obtained money.

Quote from: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/money-laundering

the crime of moving money that has been obtained illegally through banks and other businesses to make it seem as if the money has been obtained legally

Those definitions all have one thing in common: the money has to come from an illicit source. Simply depositing and withdrawing doesn't mean the source was illicit, and even trying to hide your money flows from blockchain analysis doesn't mean it's money laundering.

Depositing and withdrawing doesn't mean it's money laundering.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on September 17, 2022, 06:28:04 PM

I came across an incident in which two persons who used the stolen funds on gambling to make it their winning amount. Online rummy is quite popular in my country and in one incident two persons have stolen a big amount and to make this money legal they've made a good plan. Both played one on one game and the losers amount moved to the winner. Here both are winners, finally they got caught. So, in all possible ways people do laundering. It is not limited to just casino platforms.

If you think about it, people can launder money in a lot of ways however gambling is one of the platforms that can be easily used to justify and launder illegal funds. Just as the story you've provided, Two people were able to make the stolen funds somehow clean just by challenging each other to intentionally lose to one another and keep and split the money afterward. This method is easy to do and with limited fees to do on the casino.

This is also why most online casinos require KYC for a certain amount to avoid these scenarios from happening so they'll be able to track the person in case something like this occurred. KYC might not avoid these from happening but it will make the investigation somewhat easier.

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Quote from: Reatim on September 17, 2022, 03:04:37 AM

Quote from: |MINER| on September 17, 2022, 02:48:42 AM

I don't think casinos, gambling websites couldn't stop money laundering what they can actually do is with the kyc data it can help when the investigation agency is approached for investigation. However, gambling websites have become one of the biggest part of money laundering by evading the investigators, but I think good reputable casinos require this kyc data to stop it and I also think it plays a great role in the investigation.

you cannot just Imply KYC in crypto gambling because you knew that people here mostly wanted privacy and hates providing KYC when they gamble and also depends in how much are the amount being launder because criminal and syndicate nowadays knows how to use gambling platform as form of laundering .,

It's clear that they will find a loophole, but at the very least the casinos are following the laws and that's fine for them. Of course there are loopholes, bad people could pay people a thousand dollars each to get a new account everywhere, and could "gamble" enough to lose just like 5-10% and then withdraw, and I mean millions of dollars and if asked KYC they will show the KYC they bought from someone else.

But that's the casinos problem, they were asked to get the KYC from gamblers and they do, and that's it, there is nothing else they could do. The aim is not to stop them doing it, I mean if they could then they would but they can't, so the aim is to follow regulations.

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I came across an incident in which two persons who used the stolen funds on gambling to make it their winning amount. Online rummy is quite popular in my country and in one incident two persons have stolen a big amount and to make this money legal they've made a good plan. Both played one on one game and the losers amount moved to the winner. Here both are winners, finally they got caught. So, in all possible ways people do laundering. It is not limited to just casino platforms.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on September 17, 2022, 04:30:27 PM

Quote from: ChiNgadOr on September 16, 2022, 04:37:16 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on September 15, 2022, 06:58:03 PM

I feel like most casinos care about making money the safe way. They want high rollers but they also want to look legit in the way that they did everything they could to prevent laundering. The best thing they can get is a scammer launderer that is good and has all the fake documents they can ask for. They don't really care where the money comes from as long as their hands are clean and they can defend in court if it comes to that.

There are some legal casinos that really cares about money laundering act and they do take normal precautions to make sure that gamblers will not come to there casinos and use funds that are stolen or illegal on there casinos because the government also can come for them if they don't regulate the rate funds flow into the casino.
This is why there is maximum amount we can use to gamble on a casino which is one of the reasons set aside to regulate and make sure that gamblers stick to rules of the casino.
There are so casinos that we never care about money laundering act because they can majorly after inflow of funds to there casinos with checking the risk it might post later to them.

IMO they don't care because it's business. If there was no KYC requirement they'd be making much more money and attracting more clients.
Why would they care if someone pays taxes or not? Those money mostly go to the pockets of politicians and government employees, the casino owner couldn't care less about that money.

The rules are imposed by governments. It's like that rule that you have to park in the marked spots. If there was no such rule you'd park wherever it fits you and you wouldn't obey their rules.

some casinos will only flag down players if they got huge amount of winnings. and that will entail checking the background of the player and maybe, check the source of funds, if in case this aspect is written in their ToS. but usually, most casinos don't care much where you got your money to play with. maybe, you can encounter the financial check to some casinos which don't want to release the winnings of the player or they are seeing suspicious amounts coming in.

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Quote from: blockman on September 17, 2022, 03:52:12 PM

Quote from: SirLancelot on September 17, 2022, 03:03:44 PM

I don't think authorities will shutdown a service easily but they will first check it if the service is following a protocol to avoid the money launders.

They can close it in an instant if there's a proper basis and court order. But for that first offense, they'll just give them a penalty and the establish has to pay for it.
They'll do an investigation and when it's proven, they'll have an assessment and basis on what action must be taken. The authorities won't just come and go without any evidence provided to these establishments without proper research and basis.

It is instant after the decree is issued but it will take some time depending on the severity of the crime. Authority cannot shutdown a service easily unless proven guilty of the accused crime. It takes process and often times when the attorney of the service provider is well versed with the system the process takes months to years before the decision is made.

Quote from: Stalker22 on September 17, 2022, 03:52:50 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 17, 2022, 09:01:10 AM

That the police caught someone trying to launder money still counts as "caught in the act," right? Money laundering is also a crime and in an ideal world they are also preventable. You can answer a simple question for me: if the fraudster is not caught, then which option is better: 1.) he paid taxes on his criminal income. 2.) didn't pay taxes? I continue to consider the first case a lesser evil than the second. What do you think?

If you could show me an example of a criminal paying taxes on his income from criminal activity, I would greatly appreciate it.

Fraudster will never pay taxes on the money they laundered. It will only bring them trouble if they do Grin

.

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Quote from: ChiNgadOr on September 16, 2022, 04:37:16 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on September 15, 2022, 06:58:03 PM

I feel like most casinos care about making money the safe way. They want high rollers but they also want to look legit in the way that they did everything they could to prevent laundering. The best thing they can get is a scammer launderer that is good and has all the fake documents they can ask for. They don't really care where the money comes from as long as their hands are clean and they can defend in court if it comes to that.

There are some legal casinos that really cares about money laundering act and they do take normal precautions to make sure that gamblers will not come to there casinos and use funds that are stolen or illegal on there casinos because the government also can come for them if they don't regulate the rate funds flow into the casino.
This is why there is maximum amount we can use to gamble on a casino which is one of the reasons set aside to regulate and make sure that gamblers stick to rules of the casino.
There are so casinos that we never care about money laundering act because they can majorly after inflow of funds to there casinos with checking the risk it might post later to them.

IMO they don't care because it's business. If there was no KYC requirement they'd be making much more money and attracting more clients.
Why would they care if someone pays taxes or not? Those money mostly go to the pockets of politicians and government employees, the casino owner couldn't care less about that money.

The rules are imposed by governments. It's like that rule that you have to park in the marked spots. If there was no such rule you'd park wherever it fits you and you wouldn't obey their rules.

Topic: Crypto Casinos vs money laundering. - page 9. (Read 3580 times)