Topic: Crypto-currencies in 10 years - page 3. (Read 5762 times)
I firmly believe that a fixed supply of money and slow transaction times will make sure that whatever is present in 10 years, if anything, is mildly inflationary and quick to confirm transactions. If it could somehow be done by changing the Bitcoin code itself, even better.
why do you think dogecoin and litecoin will still be relevant in 10 years, that sounds crazy to me.
...Dogecoin may well survive the Doge meme for many moons.
Maybe you could answer a question about DOGE for me Tinus.
I understand that by January 2015 (8 months from now), the dogecoin inflation rate will have dropped to 10,000 DOGE per minute. Right now the market value of 1 DOGE is approximately equal to 1 bit. If we assume that dogecoin has the same value relative to bitcoin in January 2015, then the inflation rate per hour would be roughly 1 bit/DOGE x 10,000 DOGE / min x 60 min / hour = 600,000 bits = 0.6 BTC / hour.
In a competitive market, the cost to mine a coin should be roughly equal to the market value of the coins mined. This suggests that the cost to 51% attack the DOGE network would be a measly 0.6 BTC / hour. At today's price for bitcoin, that is only $262 per hour.
So my question is can the litecoin miners easily mine dogecoin? If this is the case, what is stopping a malicious pool from paying out litecoin miners slightly more than the litecoin inflation rate for their hash power, and then use that hashpower to 51% attack doge? In fact, there could be a large profit motive to do so if the attacker could build up a large short position in DOGE prior to switching the hash power from "nice" to "attack mode."
It seems like someone will be motivated to kill dogecoin by next January unless the price and number of dogecoin transactions grows by an enormous amount.
Hopefully you realize that such a card would be flawed? The government would pretty much get any information that they want from that company.
Yes I agree, why do people want to turn Bitcoin into traditional banking? It's like the first silent motion pictures trying to emulate theater too hard. Before some movie makers discovered the true potential of the medium they were dabbling with.
Hahah bitshares is without a doubt better [than colored coins]. It doesn't use IOU's, it is a 'trustless' system in the same way that bitcoin is a 'trustless' system.
This is another reason that colored coins are superior: they are not disingenuous.
There is no way to create coins that are pegged to the USD that don't have counter-party risk. This means that any "coin" that trades "as dollars" is actually an IOU. Colored coins makes this fact obvious. The fact that you think there is a way to achieve this in a "trustless" manner without IOUs shows how much disinformation there is in the foo-coin world.
You can trade IOUs (colored coins) for bitcoins in a trustless and decentralized way, but the IOUs themselves can never be trustless because they are representations of assets and not the assets themselves. The only trustless way to trade USD is to physically exchange paper bills.
Have you researched bitshares? Its not disingenuous at all. It mitigates counterparty risk by collateralizing the banks debt with a market valued asset. The issuer of the coins is the p2p network itself not a single individual. You are not worried about the false promises of another person you are worried about the markets inaccurate valuation of the underlying asset. I'd rather have an IOU that is backed by distributed free market consensus than have an IOU backed by a central issuers promise to pay. You simply do not understand how bitshares works which is why you are lumping it together with projects that do not provide the same service. I once believed the same as you and then I looked into it.
Right, so the Bitshares' digital representations of real assets are IOUs just like for colored coins. The value of a colored-coin IOU is:
Value of colored coin = value of underlying bitcoins + market value of IOU
The market value of the IOU can deviate from its par value. For example, the market value of USD IOUs issued by a bitcoin exchange would deviate from par value should the market lose trust in the issuer (the exchange). If MtGox and BitStamp were using colored coins throughout 2013, we'd have seen MtGoxUSD trade at a discount to BitStampUSD through the fall of 2013, before collapsing in February.
Yes but they do not have central point of failure and all the iou's are adequately collateralized... colored coins don't add any value over existing systems. Ripple, nxt and bitshares me (which is the bitshares version of personally issued IOU's - this is different than the bank) will always be faster. For that matter why wouldn't I use mastercoin and counterparty instead of colored coins. Theres just nothing different about your systems in terms of the services they provide. At least bitshares, nxt, ethereum, ripple are doing something different. At least they are not trying to build on top of a network that comes to consensus slowly, is not scalable and is wasteful. I just don't really see the case you are trying to make. If you're not going to be better than your competitors at least be different.
Right. You can do all the same things on the bitcoin network directly without buying into some foo-coin. So foo-coins add little if any value other than a platform for experimentation.
But I think you're still missing something: colored coins are not some new foo-coin. They are just small amounts of bitcoins that represent IOUs or other assets. No one is going to "IPO" colored coins; no one is pumping and dumping colored coins. There is no way to invest in "colored coins" as an asset. Anyone can color as many coins as they want and for no cost. Colored coins are just a way to turn regular bitcoins into digital representations of assets.
You said, "theres just nothing different about [colored coins] in terms of the services they provide." The fact that you used the word "service" indicates that you don't understand that there is no service--colored coins are just tools that anyone can use. It would be like saying "there's nothing different about the services that pens and paper provide." Like colored coins, pens and papers are implements that can be used to create IOUs, share certificates, titles to homes, etc. Buying into some of the new foo-coins would be like hoarding pens thinking that they will go up in value.
Hopefully you realize that such a card would be flawed? The government would pretty much get any information that they want from that company.
sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Who paid for those and why?The /r/Dogecoin community on Reddit. Lots of people gave small amounts, they raised 67 million Dogecoin in total, worth $55,000 for the NASCAR car and about $30,000 for the Jamaican bobsled team. In case of the NASCAR car they worked with the /r/NASCAR community for the sponsorship campaign (both subreddits were actually promoted on the side of the car). Many NASCAR fans on Reddit learned what cryptocurrency is for the first time because of the sponsorship. Even if you don't like Dogecoin you should appreciate that.
Dogecoin also has charities (see: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/dogecoin-community-raising-30000-children-charity-1435131). The NASCAR sponsorship was about getting media exposure for Dogecoin and that worked rather well. Obviously a racing team is not a charity.
So we may see Dogecoin Mastercards one day?
http://www.wired.com/2014/04/xapo/
sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Who paid for those and why?The /r/Dogecoin community on Reddit. Lots of people gave small amounts, they raised 67 million Dogecoin in total, worth $55,000 for the NASCAR car and about $30,000 for the Jamaican bobsled team. In case of the NASCAR car they worked with the /r/NASCAR community for the sponsorship campaign (both subreddits were actually promoted on the side of the car). Many NASCAR fans on Reddit learned what cryptocurrency is for the first time because of the sponsorship. Even if you don't like Dogecoin you should appreciate that.
Dogecoin also has charities (see: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/dogecoin-community-raising-30000-children-charity-1435131). The NASCAR sponsorship was about getting media exposure for Dogecoin and that worked rather well. Obviously a racing team is not a charity.
sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Who paid for those and why?The /r/Dogecoin community on Reddit. Lots of people gave small amounts, they raised 67 million Dogecoin in total, worth $55,000 for the NASCAR car and about $30,000 for the Jamaican bobsled team. In case of the NASCAR car they worked with the /r/NASCAR community for the sponsorship campaign (both subreddits were actually promoted on the side of the car). Many NASCAR fans on Reddit learned what cryptocurrency is for the first time because of the sponsorship. Even if you don't like Dogecoin you should appreciate that.
Dogecoin also has charities (see: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/dogecoin-community-raising-30000-children-charity-1435131). The NASCAR sponsorship was about getting media exposure for Dogecoin and that worked rather well. Obviously a racing team is not a charity.
sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Who paid for those and why?The /r/Dogecoin community on Reddit. Lots of people gave small amounts, they raised 67 million Dogecoin in total, worth $55,000 for the NASCAR car and about $30,000 for the Jamaican bobsled team. In case of the NASCAR car they worked with the /r/NASCAR community for the sponsorship campaign (both subreddits were actually promoted on the side of the car). Many NASCAR fans on Reddit learned what cryptocurrency is for the first time because of the sponsorship. Even if you don't like Dogecoin you should appreciate that.
sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Who paid for those and why?The /r/Dogecoin community on Reddit. Lots of people gave small amounts, they raised 67 million Dogecoin in total, worth $55,000 for the NASCAR car and about $30,000 for the Jamaican bobsled team. In case of the NASCAR car they worked with the /r/NASCAR community for the sponsorship campaign (both subreddits were actually promoted on the side of the car). Many NASCAR fans on Reddit learned what cryptocurrency is for the first time because of the sponsorship. Even if you don't like Dogecoin you should appreciate that.
This is the original NASCAR sponsorship thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/20mwde/guys_lets_do_it_doge_nascar_style/
Hahah bitshares is without a doubt better [than colored coins]. It doesn't use IOU's, it is a 'trustless' system in the same way that bitcoin is a 'trustless' system.
This is another reason that colored coins are superior: they are not disingenuous.
There is no way to create coins that are pegged to the USD that don't have counter-party risk. This means that any "coin" that trades "as dollars" is actually an IOU. Colored coins makes this fact obvious. The fact that you think there is a way to achieve this in a "trustless" manner without IOUs shows how much disinformation there is in the foo-coin world.
You can trade IOUs (colored coins) for bitcoins in a trustless and decentralized way, but the IOUs themselves can never be trustless because they are representations of assets and not the assets themselves. The only trustless way to trade USD is to physically exchange paper bills.
Have you researched bitshares? Its not disingenuous at all. It mitigates counterparty risk by collateralizing the banks debt with a market valued asset. The issuer of the coins is the p2p network itself not a single individual. You are not worried about the false promises of another person you are worried about the markets inaccurate valuation of the underlying asset. I'd rather have an IOU that is backed by distributed free market consensus than have an IOU backed by a central issuers promise to pay. You simply do not understand how bitshares works which is why you are lumping it together with projects that do not provide the same service. I once believed the same as you and then I looked into it.
Right, so the Bitshares' digital representations of real assets are IOUs just like for colored coins. The value of a colored-coin IOU is:
Value of colored coin = value of underlying bitcoins + market value of IOU
The market value of the IOU can deviate from its par value. For example, the market value of USD IOUs issued by a bitcoin exchange would deviate from par value should the market lose trust in the issuer (the exchange). If MtGox and BitStamp were using colored coins throughout 2013, we'd have seen MtGoxUSD trade at a discount to BitStampUSD through the fall of 2013, before collapsing in February.
Yes but they do not have central point of failure and all the iou's are adequately collateralized... colored coins don't add any value over existing systems. Ripple, nxt and bitshares me (which is the bitshares version of personally issued IOU's - this is different than the bank) will always be faster. For that matter why wouldn't I use mastercoin and counterparty instead of colored coins. Theres just nothing different about your systems in terms of the services they provide. At least bitshares, nxt, ethereum, ripple are doing something different. At least they are not trying to build on top of a network that comes to consensus slowly, is not scalable and is wasteful. I just don't really see the case you are trying to make. If you're not going to be better than your competitors at least be different.
sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Who paid for those and why? Mastercard has five lobbyists for Bitcoin (well against actually) which cost a lot more than those sporting events. why do you think dogecoin and litecoin will still be relevant in 10 years, that sounds crazy to me.
Dogecoin is relatively stable and has been rising in value against USD over the past 3 months whereas Bitcoin has been decreasing in the same timeframe. Compare:
http://coinplorer.com/Charts/USD/DOGE
http://www.coindesk.com/price/
Also Doge is more friendly to newbs (also because the value is low and newbs can own many Dogecoins while most of them can only buy a fraction of a Bitcoin) and the community does things like sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Dogecoin may well survive the Doge meme for many moons.
https://coinplorer.com/Charts?fromCurrency=DOGE&toCurrency=USD
Also Doge is more friendly to newbs (also because the value is low and newbs can own many Dogecoins while most of them can only buy a fraction of a Bitcoin) and the community does things like sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure.
Dogecoin may well survive the Doge meme for many moons.
While I actually do have a soft spot for Dogecoin, the argument that dogecoins are cheap is spurious. Right now each doge costs 1.02 bits. You can get 2257 bits for 1 USD, or 2213 doge for the same amount. So I could use the same spurious argument to say that people should invest in Bitcoin because you get more bits for your dollar than you with doges.
why do you think dogecoin and litecoin will still be relevant in 10 years, that sounds crazy to me.
Dogecoin is relatively stable and has been rising in value against USD over the past 3 months whereas Bitcoin has been decreasing in the same timeframe. Compare:
http://coinplorer.com/Charts/USD/DOGE
http://www.coindesk.com/price/
Also Doge is more friendly to newbs (also because the value is low and newbs can own many Dogecoins while most of them can only buy a fraction of a Bitcoin) and the community does things like sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure. Such as this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV8IAJug7cI
They talked about Dogecoin for a minute and a half on a sports program that has nearly 7 million viewers, all of the time showing the car in Dogecoin livery. When did Bitcoin have that kind of exposure on a mainstream sports program?
Dogecoin may well survive the Doge meme for many moons.
Im not so confident. I think theres a definite shelf life. Apple will kill it all with imoney and that will be that.
Hahah bitshares is without a doubt better [than colored coins]. It doesn't use IOU's, it is a 'trustless' system in the same way that bitcoin is a 'trustless' system.
This is another reason that colored coins are superior: they are not disingenuous.
There is no way to create coins that are pegged to the USD that don't have counter-party risk. This means that any "coin" that trades "as dollars" is actually an IOU. Colored coins makes this fact obvious. The fact that you think there is a way to achieve this in a "trustless" manner without IOUs shows how much disinformation there is in the foo-coin world.
You can trade IOUs (colored coins) for bitcoins in a trustless and decentralized way, but the IOUs themselves can never be trustless because they are representations of assets and not the assets themselves. The only trustless way to trade USD is to physically exchange paper bills.
Have you researched bitshares? Its not disingenuous at all. It mitigates counterparty risk by collateralizing the banks debt with a market valued asset. The issuer of the coins is the p2p network itself not a single individual. You are not worried about the false promises of another person you are worried about the markets inaccurate valuation of the underlying asset. I'd rather have an IOU that is backed by distributed free market consensus than have an IOU backed by a central issuers promise to pay. You simply do not understand how bitshares works which is why you are lumping it together with projects that do not provide the same service. I once believed the same as you and then I looked into it.
Right, so the Bitshares' digital representations of real assets are IOUs just like for colored coins. The value of a colored-coin IOU is:
Value of colored coin = value of underlying bitcoins + market value of IOU
The market value of the IOU can deviate from its par value. For example, the market value of USD IOUs issued by a bitcoin exchange would deviate from par value should the market lose trust in the issuer (the exchange). If MtGox and BitStamp were using colored coins throughout 2013, we'd have seen MtGoxUSD trade at a discount to BitStampUSD through the fall of 2013, before collapsing in February.
Only coins with actual dev teams will survive .
Hahah bitshares is without a doubt better [than colored coins]. It doesn't use IOU's, it is a 'trustless' system in the same way that bitcoin is a 'trustless' system.
This is another reason that colored coins are superior: they are not disingenuous.
There is no way to create coins that are pegged to the USD that don't have counter-party risk. This means that any "coin" that trades "as dollars" is actually an IOU. Colored coins makes this fact obvious. The fact that you think there is a way to achieve this in a "trustless" manner without IOUs shows how much disinformation there is in the foo-coin world.
You can trade IOUs (colored coins) for bitcoins in a trustless and decentralized way, but the IOUs themselves can never be trustless because they are representations of assets and not the assets themselves. The only trustless way to trade USD is to physically exchange paper bills.
Have you researched bitshares? Its not disingenuous at all. It mitigates counterparty risk by collateralizing the banks debt with a market valued asset. The issuer of the coins is the p2p network itself not a single individual. You are not worried about the false promises of another person you are worried about the markets inaccurate valuation of the underlying asset. I'd rather have an IOU that is backed by distributed free market consensus than have an IOU backed by a central issuers promise to pay. You simply do not understand how bitshares works which is why you are lumping it together with projects that do not provide the same service. I once believed the same as you and then I looked into it.
Thoughts?
Strap in and Prepare the shuttle for launch!
Jump to: