Topic: Crypto-currencies in 10 years - page 4. (Read 5762 times)

Quote from: clout on May 12, 2014, 02:51:24 PM

Neo and Bee Bitcoin bank aimed to do what you mentioned but it was a centralized approach which lead to its demise.

I actually made a reddit post 2 weeks ago about if it was possible to create a decentralized banking system: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/240n26/decentralized_bitcoin_bank_possible/

But what if there is a run on the bank, lets say bitcoin went down to $100 from $500 and everyone wanted to withdraw their bitcoins at the same time, the bank wouldn't have the equity.

Just like the bitcoin network has a protocol for transactions this banking network would have a protocol for issuing the debt. You can set the required collateralization to the desired level for each respective network as easily as you change the block reward on a bitcoin fork. Bitshares is already creating a decentralized bank and exchange with 200% reserves. There is a lot more information at bitshares.org and bitsharestalk.org.

I don't believe that this system is impervious to bank runs even though it does not use the fraudulent fractional reserve system. If markets are not efficient and there is a run on the bank then ppl will lose money. But this is true of any banking system as we will soon see in the US when interest rates adjusts and banks default again.

Wow that is really amazing, i had no clue bitshares was developing a decentralized bank that would allow people to deposit bitcoin and remove the risk of volatility. That is truly a game changer once it finishes development.

If you are interested in decentralized exchanges, coins pegged to the USD, gold, or other assets, then check our colored coins (the video here is a pretty good summary): http://coloredcoins.org

The major advantage of colored coins is that they exist purely in bitcoin-space--there's no need to buy some foo-coin to create them.

Colored coins are essentially small amounts of bitcoins that encode IOUs for various assets. For example, Bitstamp could create BitstampUSD colored coins. The value of a colored coin is thus the value of the underlying bitcoins + the market value of the IOU. I could buy BitstampUSD from anyone, send them to Bitstamp, and then have Bitstamp honour the IOU by wiring money to my bank account.

Colored coins open up exciting opportunities for the bitcoin network. However, colored coins are not a threat to bitcoins themselves. The reason they are not a threat is that all colored coins are IOUs; they are only worth something as long as the counterparty can honour them. In other words, colored coins are not completely trustless. There is only one asset in bitcoin-space that is not also someone else's liability: bitcoins themselves.

I don't see what that advantage of colored coins is over any of the other decentralized exchanges that offer IOUs such as matercoin, counterparty, nxt, and ripple?

Am I the only one that thinks its absolutely ridiculous that so many ppl in this opensource space are creating different projects to do the same thing. Its an absolute waste of resources. These teams should be collaborating instead of competing.

What is great about colored coins is that they *aren't* an alt-coin. By working on colored coin development, you are promoting the biggest, most accepted network: bitcoin. Like you said, let's collaborate instead of competing, as we all win if we make cryptocurrency more useful.

The advantage of colored coins over the foo coins is that you don't need the foo coins! For example, colored coins can represent IOUs like in Ripple but without the Ripple network or the need to buy XRP.

The other advantage is that it should be possible to use coinjoin transactions to directly trade colored coins IOUs for bitcoins in a trustless manner. With colored coins, your only risks are the colored coin's issuer and the bitcoin network itself. With every other solution to do the same thing, there is added complexity, cost and risk.

So like you said, "teams should be collaborating instead of competing." Since the bitcoin network is the largest and most liquid, work applied to bitcoin (e.g., colored coins) will have the biggest return.

clout

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Neither bitshares nor ethereum have been launched yet so you can't really compare either of those aspects. Also bitcion has little acceptance and low liquidity compared to the many asset types out there. Your assertion is still unfounded. I dont mean to sound like an ass. I've just found that theres to much misinformation in the space given the level of potential innovation. We should be realistic about bitcoins technical and economic limitations and work to correct them, rather than just perpetuate fallacies about how its going to the moon even though there is very little evidence of that.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

How is bitcoin any more universal than bitshares or ethereum? Bitcoin in and of itself is a niche market. These other two projects are trying to take the technology into the mainstream. Bitcoin serves one functions, while these systems serve many. You are completely misinformed.

By universal I mean acceptance and liquidity.

Boris-The-Blade

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To the Moon Of course.

clout

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How is bitcoin any more universal than bitshares or ethereum? Bitcoin in and of itself is a niche market. These other two projects are trying to take the technology into the mainstream. Bitcoin serves one functions, while these systems serve many. You are completely misinformed.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Bitshares vs. Colored Coins vs. Ethereum vs. Mastercoin etc.

They all serve different functions. Only Bitcoin is universal, all the others serve niche markets. As long as the alt coin derivatives don't stray too far from the flock, they should survive and adapt along with Bitcoin.

clout

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Hahah bitshares is without a doubt better. It doesn't use IOU's, it is a 'trustless' system in the same way that bitcoin is a 'trustless' system. Its the only decentralized exchange that doesn't use IOU's and its the only decentralized bank. It also has a better consensus mechanism for the blockchain than bitcoin, foregoing mining cost and paying stakeholders with dividends from transaction fees. I'm not saying that colored coins isn't a a good idea but dont think for a second that colored coins and bitshares are the same.

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Quote from: Peter R on May 12, 2014, 11:28:12 AM

Quote from: Peter R on May 12, 2014, 11:28:12 AM

Neo and Bee Bitcoin bank aimed to do what you mentioned but it was a centralized approach which lead to its demise.

I actually made a reddit post 2 weeks ago about if it was possible to create a decentralized banking system: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/240n26/decentralized_bitcoin_bank_possible/

But what if there is a run on the bank, lets say bitcoin went down to $100 from $500 and everyone wanted to withdraw their bitcoins at the same time, the bank wouldn't have the equity.

Just like the bitcoin network has a protocol for transactions this banking network would have a protocol for issuing the debt. You can set the required collateralization to the desired level for each respective network as easily as you change the block reward on a bitcoin fork. Bitshares is already creating a decentralized bank and exchange with 200% reserves. There is a lot more information at bitshares.org and bitsharestalk.org.

I don't believe that this system is impervious to bank runs even though it does not use the fraudulent fractional reserve system. If markets are not efficient and there is a run on the bank then ppl will lose money. But this is true of any banking system as we will soon see in the US when interest rates adjusts and banks default again.

Wow that is really amazing, i had no clue bitshares was developing a decentralized bank that would allow people to deposit bitcoin and remove the risk of volatility. That is truly a game changer once it finishes development.

If you are interested in decentralized exchanges, coins pegged to the USD, gold, or other assets, then check our colored coins (the video here is a pretty good summary): http://coloredcoins.org

The major advantage of colored coins is that they exist purely in bitcoin-space--there's no need to buy some foo-coin to create them.

Colored coins are essentially small amounts of bitcoins that encode IOUs for various assets. For example, Bitstamp could create BitstampUSD colored coins. The value of a colored coin is thus the value of the underlying bitcoins + the market value of the IOU. I could buy BitstampUSD from anyone, send them to Bitstamp, and then have Bitstamp honour the IOU by wiring money to my bank account.

Colored coins open up exciting opportunities for the bitcoin network. However, colored coins are not a threat to bitcoins themselves. The reason they are not a threat is that all colored coins are IOUs; they are only worth something as long as the counterparty can honour them. In other words, colored coins are not completely trustless. There is only one asset in bitcoin-space that is not also someone else's liability: bitcoins themselves.

Interesting...

I don't see how colored coins can be pegged to usd while being trustless, bitshares decentralized bank looks alot better.

clout

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Quote from: hamiltino on May 12, 2014, 06:21:53 AM

Neo and Bee Bitcoin bank aimed to do what you mentioned but it was a centralized approach which lead to its demise.

I actually made a reddit post 2 weeks ago about if it was possible to create a decentralized banking system: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/240n26/decentralized_bitcoin_bank_possible/

But what if there is a run on the bank, lets say bitcoin went down to $100 from $500 and everyone wanted to withdraw their bitcoins at the same time, the bank wouldn't have the equity.

Just like the bitcoin network has a protocol for transactions this banking network would have a protocol for issuing the debt. You can set the required collateralization to the desired level for each respective network as easily as you change the block reward on a bitcoin fork. Bitshares is already creating a decentralized bank and exchange with 200% reserves. There is a lot more information at bitshares.org and bitsharestalk.org.

I don't believe that this system is impervious to bank runs even though it does not use the fraudulent fractional reserve system. If markets are not efficient and there is a run on the bank then ppl will lose money. But this is true of any banking system as we will soon see in the US when interest rates adjusts and banks default again.

Wow that is really amazing, i had no clue bitshares was developing a decentralized bank that would allow people to deposit bitcoin and remove the risk of volatility. That is truly a game changer once it finishes development.

If you are interested in decentralized exchanges, coins pegged to the USD, gold, or other assets, then check our colored coins (the video here is a pretty good summary): http://coloredcoins.org

The major advantage of colored coins is that they exist purely in bitcoin-space--there's no need to buy some foo-coin to create them.

Colored coins are essentially small amounts of bitcoins that encode IOUs for various assets. For example, Bitstamp could create BitstampUSD colored coins. The value of a colored coin is thus the value of the underlying bitcoins + the market value of the IOU. I could buy BitstampUSD from anyone, send them to Bitstamp, and then have Bitstamp honour the IOU by wiring money to my bank account.

Colored coins open up exciting opportunities for the bitcoin network. However, colored coins are not a threat to bitcoins themselves. The reason they are not a threat is that all colored coins are IOUs; they are only worth something as long as the counterparty can honour them. In other words, colored coins are not completely trustless. There is only one asset in bitcoin-space that is not also someone else's liability: bitcoins themselves.

I don't see what that advantage of colored coins is over any of the other decentralized exchanges that offer IOUs such as matercoin, counterparty, nxt, and ripple?

Am I the only one that thinks its absolutely ridiculous that so many ppl in this opensource space are creating different projects to do the same thing. Its an absolute waste of resources. These teams should be collaborating instead of competing.

MrBea

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Bitcorns

Quote from: TaunSew on May 12, 2014, 06:00:25 AM

Digital currencies themselves can be Fiat. Why does Dogecoin have a larger capitalization than an innovative coin like NxT or layered improvements like Mastercoin / Counterparty? Why does BTC and LTC maintain their position ~ despite hordes of technically better coins?

It seems to me community is king for currencies. Bitcoin may have an infamous reputation among the mainstream but it frankly hasn't had a serious challenger to date.

And to get a community that will be bigger than bitcoin, requires the crypto-currency to have certain properties...The question is what properties would it need to have to reign over bitcoin. Price stabilization is the key property for me.

Nxt has a lower market cap than doge despite it being innovative is its lack of user friendliness, poor distribution and poor marketing compared to Doge. These are properties that a top contender needs to have. I'll also add there is no reason for anyone to use nxt over bitcoin when we don't take into account return on investment.

NXT also has very little trade volume. Its almost masterbatory. Doge is awesome because the people are awesome and develop great projects. Android wallet, dogecar, magazine, charity work, twitterbot, artists, activists like savethemhood and more in the works.

If im at a party doge is the only crypto to talk about because its silly and social.

Bitcoin will always be gold imho, ideal savings. Litecoin is meh.

I see bitcoin, litecoin, dogecoin and an inflationary proof of stake coin.

Peter R

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 12, 2014, 01:12:07 AM

In order for any crypto coin to remain more than a popular generational fad it needs to be more simple to use than just directly using your countries fiat and have a zero exchange fee. Would you rather go to the store and buy a stereo or go to a gold dealer, buy just the right amount of gold bars, pay a fee for the gold purchase, then find a store that takes gold bars and then buy the stereo. How many average joes are going to take the extra steps necessary?

It sounds like what you're saying is that if bitcoin is only used as a store of value (and not as a medium of exchange), then it is more analogous to gold than to currency. The total value all mined gold is estimated as $8.3 trillion dollar. Since the total bitcoin supply is presently valued at $5.6 billion, the gold/bitcoin analogy suggests that bitcoin can grow on the order of 100,000% fulfilling store-of-value demand.

Peter R

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Quote from: hashman on May 12, 2014, 02:47:27 AM

Neo and Bee Bitcoin bank aimed to do what you mentioned but it was a centralized approach which lead to its demise.

I actually made a reddit post 2 weeks ago about if it was possible to create a decentralized banking system: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/240n26/decentralized_bitcoin_bank_possible/

But what if there is a run on the bank, lets say bitcoin went down to $100 from $500 and everyone wanted to withdraw their bitcoins at the same time, the bank wouldn't have the equity.

Just like the bitcoin network has a protocol for transactions this banking network would have a protocol for issuing the debt. You can set the required collateralization to the desired level for each respective network as easily as you change the block reward on a bitcoin fork. Bitshares is already creating a decentralized bank and exchange with 200% reserves. There is a lot more information at bitshares.org and bitsharestalk.org.

I don't believe that this system is impervious to bank runs even though it does not use the fraudulent fractional reserve system. If markets are not efficient and there is a run on the bank then ppl will lose money. But this is true of any banking system as we will soon see in the US when interest rates adjusts and banks default again.

Wow that is really amazing, i had no clue bitshares was developing a decentralized bank that would allow people to deposit bitcoin and remove the risk of volatility. That is truly a game changer once it finishes development.

If you are interested in decentralized exchanges, coins pegged to the USD, gold, or other assets, then check our colored coins (the video here is a pretty good summary): http://coloredcoins.org

The major advantage of colored coins is that they exist purely in bitcoin-space--there's no need to buy some foo-coin to create them.

Colored coins are essentially small amounts of bitcoins that encode IOUs for various assets. For example, Bitstamp could create BitstampUSD colored coins. The value of a colored coin is thus the value of the underlying bitcoins + the market value of the IOU. I could buy BitstampUSD from anyone, send them to Bitstamp, and then have Bitstamp honour the IOU by wiring money to my bank account.

Colored coins open up exciting opportunities for the bitcoin network. However, colored coins are not a threat to bitcoins themselves. The reason they are not a threat is that all colored coins are IOUs; they are only worth something as long as the counterparty can honour them. In other words, colored coins are not completely trustless. There is only one asset in bitcoin-space that is not also someone else's liability: bitcoins themselves.

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 12, 2014, 01:12:07 AM

How many of you people go out and buy Bitcoins and then use those Bitcoins to make a purchase? I'd be willing to bet none of you do because it's too difficult to make it worthwhile and if you do you just increased the cost of your purchase.

That's a bet you will lose quickly: yesterday 50,000 bitcoins were spent. For me it is much easier to make a purchase and I have decreased the total cost.

That's absurd. I seriously doubt you could even find 50,000 Bitcoins to purchase let alone spend. That's one 12th of all the Bitcoins Gox lost and those were amassed over a 4 year period when mining had a 50 coin reward. What you are seeing is total transactions. I'm talking about individuals BUYING Bitcoins to make purchases not MINING them. By the way, you need to take another look at the system of fees to buy Bitcoins and spend them again. It's not what you think it is. Also, I sent $10,000 to a relative in Germany for an investment in his company. I used Amazon Payments for the transfer. I registered my bank account with Amazon, called them to remove the $500 monthly limit on my account and sent the money. Guess what? It was free!

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