Topic: CryptoBetfair.com | 100% Provably Fair | More than a casino, a community. - page 6. (Read 35275 times)

One of the reasons we did not use  window.crypto is that it is not compatible with all browsers. We went through a lot of pains (and still are) to make sure that our site is fully responsive and usable for as many people as possible.

Again the "complexity" or our system is currently being addressed, and we will have several solutions available very soon.

We still believe that using all zeros to start with the client seed, is more direct and obvious proof that we would not use a bad seed.
Do you require users to set their own client seed before placing a bet?

We are working on a combination of solutions, all bets will be verified instantly and every bet made will be verifiable in bulk after one hour. 
I think we have come up with a clever solution, that will be very easy for everyone.

I am also very excited about the positive conversation regarding provably fair and advancements happening here.  I will update you asap.

No problem.


Will the user still need to wait up to 24 hours before being able to "batch verify" their rolls? Or are you planning to have the verifier log the server seed hashes as the player plays, effectively doing the work for the player? Neither solution seems as neat as Just-Dice's system, where so long the player (1) makes a note of their server seed hash before playing and then (2) sets their client seed before playing, he can, at any later point verify all the rolls he makes after that, at any time he likes, without having to make a note of any additional information (other than the actual numbers he rolled, of course - or what is there to verify).


Then force them to set a client seed before play, as Ryan suggests. Job done. Then there's no need for daily secrets, no need for constantly changing server seeds, players can easily and immediately verify all their rolls.

Well done addressing the other points I raised.

I don't understand your question. Which two seeds are you talking about (client seed or server seed)? And who are the two "you"s in your question?

I'll try to rewrite your question unambiguously and then answer it:

"how does player the verify that the server seed that the site sends them when they ask to reveal their server seed after play is the same as the seed that was hashed before they started play and not a different seed with the same sha256 hash and which generated all the same rolls when combined with the client seed?"

Is that what you're asking?

If so, that's the same as asking "how can we be sure you're not cheating by finding not only an sha256 collision (which has never been done by anyone before) but all N different partial hmac_sha512 collisions, where N is the number of rolls that were made". And I guess the answer is "you can't - either the game is fair, or we are using a weakness in sha256 and sha512 which nobody else even knows exists". If you don't trust the strength of sha256 then all bets are off (as it were).

But maybe I've misunderstood your question; please let me know what you're really asking.

We don't have a faucet, but if you or anyone else wants to test out the games, stop by the chat.

We would be happy to make you a voucher.

Hey, I would like to test your site,do you have any faucet in it or is it planned to include it?

Well, there has been an excellent post on reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

With the Just-Dice script, how do you verify that the seed you send, is the same seed and not a ambiguous variation? Cryptobetfair deals with most provablyfair issues. (frontrunning, seedmanipulation on the client,serverseeds are chained excluding serverseed manipulation.)

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Well... I asked for it and I got it.

First off,  Thanks for taking the time to look over our system. You clearly looked it over in detail, and we appreciate that.  Our team has a lot of respect for your work.

We hear you loud and clear about verifying a lot of bets at once.  You are right.
We are immediately working on a batch verifier to fix this.  Expect it within days.  We will make sure that it is easy and clear for anyone to use. This was a missing part of our system, thanks again for pointing it out. 



I have to disagree with you here.  I think this step is so very important. True, these people don't care, but WE care.  We want to prevent EVERY single possible way that we could cheat. I am a little surprised that you don't see that as a honorable effort to make everything as fair as possible.  This is a hole where an admin could cheat their users. We absolutely can not ignore that.  With all these dice sites around now, and more appearing every day, someone is either using this hole to exploit users or will use it soon.  Yes, you are correct that in our current layout, this makes bulk verification difficult. We will fix that. The system is solid, making it easier to confirm is the next step.


Thanks for pointing out our minor meta issue, we have fixed it.




Less features- The only thing we were missing from our dice game was a few "min-1/2-2x-max" buttons on the manual part of dice. This has already been fixed and live NOW.
Keyboard shortcuts are on the way. If you can show us anything else we might be missing let us know, we will be happy to add it.

Higher house edge- Fair enough, 1% house edge live NOW

Lower max bets than almost all the competition- That will grow over time and we are adding more to our bankroll every day. We are new, and using our own funds.  We are more focused on fair, steady growth.

We are not like most other places. Community is more important to us than fast and easy personal profits. We are in it for the long haul. I look at our decision not to have an investment feature as just another way to prove that we are fair.  I see too many sites that use customer funds, then magically take a loss. We prefer to take the risk ourselves for now. We believe enough in what we are doing to grow slowly, and honestly.

I think we are building our business the right way. We do not need to be the biggest. We are building a foundation on fairness, trust, transparency, and community. Open to change, and willing to do whatever it takes to eliminate cheating.

I hope you come revisit us in a few days once the bulk verifier is in place, and we welcome any more constructive advice.

go and ask for some Bumba

Why not test with your own satoshis?

Design is not the best ever,but it is good,don't you have a faucet in your site?

I would like to test it

This sounds awesome, it really looks like a bit more than a casino. I'm going to have to check this out some time.

I saw your post asking for me to look at your provably fair system, so I did.

I'm not sure how exactly you think it is better than Just-Dice's provably fair system, which is pretty much the standard for dice site provable fairness, and so it's hard to dispute your claim.


I think that was his point. You need to click every individual bet. That's inconvenient. You also need to make a note of the server seed hash before each roll so you can check afterwards that it didn't change. It's too much overhead.

The added complexity of having a daily seed makes matters worse. If I make 100 bets I have to choose between two inconvenient methods of verifying them:

1) wait until the next day, get the dseed for the day I made the bets on, and generate the 100 rolls

2) note the server seed hash before each roll, and click each betid to verify that the roll was fair

So either 1) wait 24 hours or 2) click 100 times. Neither is very satisfactory, especially when most sites have already solved the problem. Just use a server seed, a client seed, and a nonce. Let the player reveal the server seed whenever they like and otherwise don't change it; rely on the changing nonce (bet_ctr) to change the rolls.

That's the system pioneered by Just-Dice and nowadays used by pretty much every reputable dice site.

I don't think all the extra complexity you have added is worth the relatively minor gains, especially given the extra inconvenience that goes along with it. The only tangible advantage I can see is that you can prove that you're not cheating even to people who don't care whether you're cheating enough to set their own client seed. But by definition, those people don't care.


What's this title meant to mean?


Is that placeholder text that you forgot to fill in?

I'm not sure you'll have a lot of success offering a dice game with less features, higher house edge, and lower max bets than almost all the competition, and you have no investment feature either. Those seem to be strange decisions you've made, and I guess you have your reasons for them.

Good luck with it.

I vote optional.

I just want to be clear, that is NOT our UI

But.... But...When can we haz:




-edit- Maxalt now you did it. I need to buy a hololens...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBJePrpXzvU

@serversides. This is so sweet . What an interface.

I enjoy your site guys, don't feel pressured, take your time. The most important thing in BTC gambling is trust & transparency. I think it's a really good thing that you're taking your time & checking everything is 100%.
The best sites build slowly, your userbase will increase gradually, I'm excited about you guys. I will be waiting in anticipation for the major new program release, just going to follow you on twitter now. Good luck & well done to everybody involved in your site & development.

Thanks. We plan on adding more games ASAP.  Its a slow process tho, making sure that everything we release is good quality, secure, and fully responsive.  Our max bets are a little low on some coins right now, because we dont use customers funds for our bankroll.  We take the risk ourselves, and our bank is filled with real coins.  I think they will rise very fast as people get to know us.

We also have a major program coming soon.  Follow us at  https://twitter.com/CryptoBetFair  to hear about it first.

Hello everyone.  Many people know me from back when BTC was in its infancy and I could be considered by some to be a 'whale' although I don't really think so.  I was a huge supporter of WorldCoin (at one time I had over $60K USD worth of it).  I've known the guys that run this site since it was wdcspin.com, years ago.  I've made many bets (look at the leaderboards or the bet history to see for yourself) and these are stand up guys running a legit site.  Since playing on cryptobetfair, I'm up over 40,000 WDC the last time that I checked.

While the house does have an edge, there are proven methods to beat the odds.  I've been very successful using a modified martingale betting system on both the spin and drop games.  This only works because the site is 100% provably fair and statistics are on your side until max bet is reached.  There are definitely times that you will lose, but I must say, for me to lose now after being up so much, it is unlikely and the games are truly addictive to play once you are winning.  I don't mind explaining the betting system that I use, since you can see it in action by watching the bet history when I play.  For those that are interested, this is the method that I use:

In a normal martingale system, you double your bet on a loss and reset to the initial bet after a win.  I tried this for a while and it worked ok, but was not ideal.

What I do is triple my bet on a loss of anything other than 0X, and quadruple my bet on 0X losses.  If a 1.25X win occurs, I reduce next bet amount by 4X, otherwise if a larger win is hit, reset to initial bet.  The key is to start the bet small enough to not reach the max bet often.  When max bet is reached, I've had success either max betting until I reach the previous balance or limiting max bet to 3 or 4 times and then resetting to the initial bet.