[CRYPTOSTOCKS] Vircurex [VCX] - Going public - page 5.

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Quote from: jubalix on March 02, 2013, 08:09:20 AM

Quote from: Kumala on February 27, 2013, 08:43:51 PM

IPO coming to a closing end of Feb 28th. Based on the current BTC price of 32.50 USD I have adjusted the required share numbers:

Total issued: 29500
Free Float: 8550

As of now we have 8538 shares sold, thus I'll make up for the difference if we don't reach the 8550. Thus I'll leave the IPO running till end of Sunday to offer a last minute opportunity for share purchases.

I was wondering about that...as I purchased some shares, and nothing happened on 28th....you should put announcements on the Listing/book build page

also as soon as I saw VCX was listed I though what about crypto surley it should list on itself? Huh

Announcement? Good point, done.

Listing CS? Something I might follow up on in some time, once all the promised changes for VCX have been done (incorporation, various new features, new fiat currency support, etc.)

Smoovious

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Scattering my bits around the net since 1980

SLL trading comes with its own significant risks, not the least of which is, the LL ToS which states that SLL is a virtual currency with no real world value, and may be taken back by LL at any time.

Then there is also the risks of people buying SLL through stolen credit cards and stolen accounts, that LL claws back, leaving the exchange eating the loss (which has happened many times already. speak to the guys running TheRock and VirWoX)

-- Smoov

jubalix

legendary

Activity: 2632

Merit: 1023

Quote from: Kumala on February 27, 2013, 08:43:51 PM

IPO coming to a closing end of Feb 28th. Based on the current BTC price of 32.50 USD I have adjusted the required share numbers:

Total issued: 29500
Free Float: 8550

As of now we have 8538 shares sold, thus I'll make up for the difference if we don't reach the 8550. Thus I'll leave the IPO running till end of Sunday to offer a last minute opportunity for share purchases.

I was wondering about that...as I purchased some shares, and nothing happened on 28th....you should put announcements on the Listing/book build page

also as soon as I saw VCX was listed I though what about crypto surley it should list on itself? Huh

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

IPO coming to a closing end of Feb 28th. Based on the current BTC price of 32.50 USD I have adjusted the required share numbers:

Total issued: 29500
Free Float: 8550

As of now we have 8538 shares sold, thus I'll make up for the difference if we don't reach the 8550. Thus I'll leave the IPO running till end of Sunday to offer a last minute opportunity for share purchases.

Monster Tent

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Kumala on February 19, 2013, 01:58:53 AM

The cash from the listing will be used for the operations costs (hosting, legal entity, etc) only. My efforts will be compensated from the dividends of the shares I hold and the increase in share value over time, thus I have the utmost interest to make this a success.

Why should investors fund 100% of costs in return for only 30% of the total shares ? Seems a bit overbalanced.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1043

👻

If you want 70% of the company AND >1000BTC in profit, then you need to be putting 7850 BTC in the company. At the current state, this is going to pale out VERY badly unless you're Kumala.

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Bump.

One more week to end of IPO. We still have a number of shares to sell.

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

The cash from the listing will be used for the operations costs (hosting, legal entity, etc) only. My efforts will be compensated from the dividends of the shares I hold and the increase in share value over time, thus I have the utmost interest to make this a success.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

So how do you plan to pay yourself for this full time job? Will it come out of the revenue before dividend payments or is it coming from the cash raised from this sale?

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Update on the listing.

We have two positive news for the listing of Vircurex.

1. The license fee costs for the platform has been reduced by 200BTC.
2. The cost of BTC/USD has changed in a favourable way, i.e. we will require to raise less BTCs.

Assuming the BTC/USD remains at its current level, we'll adjust he listing as follows:

Total number of shares issued: 31,000 shares
Total publicly listed/traded shares: 9,300 shares

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

All in all you need ~60-70k USD for buying licenses + operating the exchange for a few years. Why do you need to sell a part of this company (if you are even legally allowed to - I didn't yet see under which jurisdiction this will run) just to get a sum that is not THAT impressive. Why go through all that hassle if you could just walk to the next bank, deposit your firstborn or so and get a credit with probably even better rates than what you intend to give to your "investors" (= 100% money providers) here? If you didn't go to banks, why? If you did, what did they say to reject your idea? Please also show us the materials you showed (or would show) to a bank to get a loan of ~75k USD.

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Haha, this is a full time job, just answering the threads already takes up 50% of my time. The other half, well I'll be putting up a "Developer's log" so you guys can see whats going on and whats going to happen.

HorseRider

donator

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1001

Hi Kumala,

When are you going to work full time on this project, under what kind of conditions? thanks.

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Quote from: RandomQ on February 03, 2013, 11:39:52 PM

Please don't take this as a flame, I'm just trying to crunch some numbers and understand how you are setting the value.

No worries, full disclosure and transparency.

Quote from: RandomQ on February 03, 2013, 11:39:52 PM

Does the Company have any Unpaid debts or Liabilities?

No.

Quote from: RandomQ on February 03, 2013, 11:39:52 PM

What is the current average operating costs?

The current costs are not comparable with the planned setup after the listing. First of all, there will be the incorporation which will cost money to establish and maintain, then we have the various development activities that are required afterwords to incorporate payment processors. Also support for Linden Dollars is planned, that as well will require efforts and funds.

Quote from: RandomQ on February 03, 2013, 11:39:52 PM

Does the Company have any assets?

The systems are run on a VPS, thus no server infrastructure is required. All development infrastructure will be provided by myself, no assets required either.
The assets owned are primarily intangible assets (domain name, license for the platform).

Quote from: RandomQ on February 03, 2013, 11:39:52 PM

Doing some very simple math I'm seeing a possible .0144 BTC dividend payments over 12 months given no growth.

I'll give some good growth for the company and say .02 dividend payments over 12 months.

After 12 months that dividend payment is going to cut because instead of paying 13,500 possible shares its going to be paying 45,000.

After 12 months the dividend payment would put the ROI @10-20 years? Unless you are going to be seeing 25-50% growth.

This is understandably most difficult to predict. Yes, assuming a quarter on quarter growth of merely 10% you get 4% yield. The 10% growth is my expected bottom line, with the incorporation and thus access to more financial services as well as selected marketing activities and a more agressive referral system we should be able to grow way beyond that rate. If we are to make a dividend yield of 4% to 8% then we are very well within the parameters of a mature market.

Quote from: RandomQ on February 03, 2013, 11:39:52 PM

Also I understand USD/BTC rate plays a big role in this since operating costs would be in USD

Yes, and thats why we intent to convert all BTC right away after the listing into USD to eliminate any future currency fluctuations.

RandomQ

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 500

Does the Company have any Unpaid debts or Liabilities?

What is the current average operating costs?

Does the Company have any assets?

Doing some very simple math I'm seeing a possible .0144 BTC dividend payments over 12 months given no growth.

I'll give some good growth for the company and say .02 dividend payments over 12 months.

After 12 months that dividend payment is going to cut because instead of paying 13,500 possible shares its going to be paying 45,000.

After 12 months the dividend payment would put the ROI @10-20 years? Unless you are going to be seeing 25-50% growth.

Please don't take this as a flame, I'm just trying to crunch some numbers and understand how you are setting the value.

Also I understand USD/BTC rate plays a big role in this since operating costs would be in USD

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Quote from: Sukrim on February 03, 2013, 12:19:39 PM

If you will even convert all your expenses ans income to USD, why list on an BTC-only marketplace?

Only the expenses will be converted, as most of the services that we require cannot be purchased (yet) in Bitcoin, e.g. incorporation. The income will of course be paid out in BTC.

Quote from: Sukrim on February 03, 2013, 12:19:39 PM

This is just another "I have a great idea, give me money/developers/time/human ressources/a botnet/... and I'll make it happen - and you who had all the risk and invested all the ressources even get 30% of the profit!" scheme.

Selected members of this community seem to have the impression that running an online Bitcoin Exchange is a fully automated platform where all I need to do is collect my income once a month. The shocking truth is that this is not the case. It is a very time consuming business, daily monitoring of security logs, backup validation, user inquiries, account reviews, AML/KYC activities, further code developments and improvements, marketing, etc.

Quote from: Sukrim on February 03, 2013, 12:19:39 PM

how much of an incentive the OP even has

Yes, whilst the 30% of the shareholder bring in the cash for the initial period, the operators of the platform bring in amounts of time and personal committment that can't even be expressed in $. The operators have the utmost interest to make this a success, as they will be looking back at months and years of invested time. For the typical average investor, the risk is limited to the Bitcoins he decided to invest.
As quoted in other posts, if this investment is too risky for the average investor, buy only one or two shares for 0.25BTC to support the Alt-Chain Exchange.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

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Same thing here:
If you will even convert all your expenses ans income to USD, why list on an BTC-only marketplace?

Also, I strongly recommend anyone thinking to "invest" (= throwing money at the OP) how much of an incentive the OP even has, if ALL money he needs for 3(!) years is coming from the 30% share and he won't see any return on that for 12 months. Also he dictates the initial prices, if you think he's worth less, there's no way for you to take part in this.

This is just another "I have a great idea, give me money/developers/time/human ressources/a botnet/... and I'll make it happen - and you who had all the risk and invested all the ressources even get 30% of the profit!" scheme.

Kumala

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

With immediately I mean, once we have sold the shares, right after that I will convert it (BTC-E, MTGox, Vircurex, whereever to get it converted). To make this clear, all profits (or be it cost savings) wherever they might come from will be made public and will come to the benefit of VCX.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Kumala on February 02, 2013, 08:24:37 AM

Note:
This listing will only become effective if at least 10,000 shares are sold. If the 10,000 shares are not sold by 28th February 2013 then all shares will be purchased back at the face value of 0.25 BTC per share and this contract will be null and void.

Currency Exchange Risks
All expenses are paid in USD, thus to limit the possible risk of currency fluctuations, all proceedings from the listing will be converted to USD immediately. The funds will be held in a bank account and will not be used for anything other than paying the operational costs of the platform.

Emboldening is mine.

If you convert immediately but then don't sell 10,000 shares are you personally making up the difference if BTC rises vs USD in the interim? (Or keeping the profit if it falls vs USD)?

Or does "immediately" actually mean "immediately - but not until after at least 10,000 shares have been sold"?

Deprived

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Kumala on February 02, 2013, 06:59:33 PM

The chain of arguments is getting too complicated, lets me "streamline it":
I am forming a company (Vircurex Ltx?) which will acquire the current trading platform and its business from its current owner (for 1500BTC). I am offering to sell 30% of the company shares to the public (Face value being sold 3375BTC). 70% I will be holding. For the first one year, I will not be collecting any dividends, all of those go to the 30% shareholders.

If the 1500 BTC buys the current trading platform and business, what are YOU putting in for your 70% of shares?

If the 30% are worth 3375 BTC then your 70% are worth 7875 BTC.

As the existing business is being bought for 1500 I'm not seeing what you're personally bringing to the table to justify you getting 7875 BTC-worth of shares immediately. Is ALL shareholders get in return for your 70% you running the business?

Though as you're forming a new company maybe I'm just misreading it - and you're putting in 7875 BTC yourself at the same face-value as the shares being sold to the public? If so then it's an unusual way to do things but acceptable - though why you'd need 10k+ BTC to run an exchange I'm not sure: your post doesn't explain what that cash would be used for.

Topic: [CRYPTOSTOCKS] Vircurex [VCX] - Going public - page 5. (Read 15521 times)