Topic: Current Bitmain Hardware Dump 10/13/19. Very ugly at 10c kWh to ROI Ever! POLL! - page 2. (Read 569 times)

OK...thanks for the posts...back to me, however...

Where is this 6c kWh everyone speaks of in order to mine? Again, best rates I've found digging into it and getting fees etc and shipping etc etc (without a tariff equipment in hand) is 8c kWh. Any legit action overseas or someplace that really is 6c kWh when all the calculations are done? Or as I suspected before I started this thread a myth?

Thanks

Brad

(Likely not a myth, likely, not available to small fry like me...alas, big miners day has gone...in the ASIC old folks home)

For the ROI have a look here https://imgur.com/DSADsxM did an estimate/guestimate based on $0.04 and $0.06 per Kw with some more details here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5191425.20.

As mentioned above, 10 cents is never going to ROI happily, just buy with cash if you can and buy OTC, IMHO, as you said as well.

As far as I have seen so far, most of the people are old in this game and play their ROI to reinvest in equipment, so there is a constant cash flow available and even if that would happen (the 5 and later 3 nm chips), with the direction of mainly industrial size miners, there would be no loses as big as imagined.

Why? After the halving, a few will close shops, a few will hope for higher BTC price, and a few will turn the machines back on once it will be profitable again.

I do believe your post title is correct 10c a kWh you are fuc***, game over, I did the math for 4 and 6 cents and without any other risks associated (transport customs costs, any delays, or BTC price variation) it was a long ROI.

But one must consider Bitmain has troubles financially, they expanded based on the end of 2017 hype and now they are restructuring, Amsterdam and another place got closed down (like offices, if I remember correctly ), leadership reshuffled... Maybe this is just a new direction.

I do see what you mean with the selling techniques applied, it appears to be undercutting their own purchasers by always putting new ones with earlier delivery dates than the previous pre-orders. (I am newer her and got used to it)

But one matter you forgot to consider, their competition. With the company adapting to the 'new times' they need to make sure they catch as much as they can from the market pool, therefore, sell as much as they can.

Maybe bitcoin is meant to be mined only through own renewable energy (yes it costs money as well, but better than the alternative), or maybe some of us are better of by buying it at the till if nothing else can be done to mine.

I definitely do not see any of the manufacturers changing the way the are that much, so we must choose as it fits us right.

No matter what, time will tell if we chose good or bad.

NB. I support Bitmain due to the 2 power cords, effective communication and updates that I have experienced with them, unlike other manufacturers.

Well  they have the best miner on the market  the 53th pro is doing 36-39.5 watts a th

As I read the 5nm claims for power saving to be 10-20percent  it is not worth rushing to market if the s19 pro does

s19 pro at 10% better is
32.4 low speed
35.5 middle speed
37.8 high speed


not much better then

36        low
39.5     middle
42        high

I would think  that they would milk the edge this has over the m20s  maybe  they feel threatened by whatsminer.

I guess if it was 20%  better then the s17pro

28.8 low speed
31.6 middle
33.6 high        it would make more sense to drop 500 to 800 million into new gear.

Not a lie per se, but I'm pretty sure 5nm and 3nm will units will go to bitmain data halls first and be used to drive up difficulty 4-5 months, then product released to masses at inflated prices. Seems to be how they roll. As to the lie, if they really do figure 'slow growth' and you should get miners for the long haul said in the article (my interpretation) then the 3nm and 5nm stuff above (via past actions by bitmain on the release of ASIC's) really puts a 'pause' in my thinking that view was not there to move product. Even if they think it is true. Whatever, I'm so far out of mining NOW it is silly, even without the tariff/etc.

I have ONE S9i running that I will never ROI I 'dubiously' got this summer paid up at my buddies (Maxumark) Data Hall till Jan 1st, 2020.

Mostly, because I waste money like a drunken sailor since retirement and thus 'some' of my wasted money will AT LEAST show up as dubious overpriced mined BTC!

Besides, seeing the miner chug along each day is 'soothing' to my complete large scale ASCI hard withdrawal addiction! Ack!

But always remember, we are talking about Bitmain which for more than a year or two denied ASCI BOOST even existed. It is how they roll!

Brad

---

They can do such because 1) They determine where such units will go when 5nm comes out 2) The mass of now (IMHO) overpriced by at least 25% miners they push on the site. Also, the fact that they are NOT selling out due to BTC/Crypto prices. In other words, they have to keep the doors open for ASIC manufacturing and the lights on and their design team paid, etc. I've no doubt that is their plan for 5nm in Spring, but you are right could be just hype.

By the By, where can a guy get into this 6c kWh mining you talk about. The best I've seen with full fees etc is 8c kWh and that is usually overseas and thus killed by shipping and 'setup fees per unit'. I want in on that action if full 6c kWh with fees. The 10c kWh with fees was everything including shipping and setup.

Again, I've no idea wtf is going on with mining. I just know I'm on the sidelines buying BTC on Coinbase or whatever..misssing it.

later

Brad

Nice find  but I can't believe it at all must be a tactical lie.


first off 10cent mining = loser

we are now pretty much industrial.

ie: 6cent mining is the new 10 mining

I simply do not understand why bitmain would announce 5nm chips due in early 2020.

They undercut all the sales they are listing.

Also last I looked  intel amd and nvidia do not have 5nm chips

nor does apple or samsung.

Stands to reason they would put the chips out first.

I did find this on 5nm chip for  a samsung phone


So May-June of 2020  for sammy may happen

based on that  at least a few months past  May-June  maybe Nov-Dec for the 5nm  s19-21 miner.

Reserved

But on 10/13/19 the Bitmain site had a mess of stuff for pre-order or direct purchase.

Well, I think I know why Bitmain is dumping product now in mass. From the following link seems they are looking at 5nm in early 2020 and are working on 3nm chips as we speak. See this article: https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/bitmain-ceo-bullish-behavior-unlikely-following-may-2020-btc-halving/

We are utterly screwed as small miners unless the price rises significantly before these 5nm and 3nm chips are in play. Again, IMHO, why Bitmain is dumping ASIC's in mass.

I'll post 3 of the large units as examples of what they offer for prices and watts and what they would make in the USA at 10c kWh. WITHOUT the USA Tariff and Import Fees (27.6%) and shipping price from China. So I will do my calculations (again without tariff/import fees/shipping) at 10c kWh.

For these two pre-order units at least. As long as I did the calculations anyway, I'll post my links to calculators and results here.

Note: There are other units on the Bitmain site that I've not listed. Some I would have but Bitmain lists no watts for some of these units.

Also only did the below high-end units. The result is dismal enough, IMHO, no need to beat a dead horse and list all units. You'll get the idea.

I used the below link to determine hash/power/profit.

What to Mine Site. BTC Checked Box. Also, the price was taken from https://coinmarketcap.com/ for BTC.

https://whattomine.com/asic
    
-------------------
Antminer S17+ 73TH at 2920 watts and the price of $2,833.00 pre-order. Delivery December 1st-10th, 2019. PRE-ORDER.
-------------------

At the current BTC price of $8,430.00 at 10c kWh. You would make at flat difficulty (now) and price (today) of $5.00  per day profit. With an ROI of 566 days! Yech!

--------------------
Antminer T17+ 64TH at 3200 watts and the price of $1,802.00 pre-order. Delivery December 1st-10th, 2019. PRE-ORDER.
--------------------

At the current BTC price of $8,430.00 at 10c kWh. You would make at flat difficulty (now) and price (today) of $2.84 per day profit. With an ROI of 635 days! Yech!

----------------------
Antminer S17 Pro 50TH at (using middle watts at the low figure of the high scale) of 2250 watts. Price is $2,502. Delivery October 21st-31st, 2019. AVAILABLE NOW.
----------------------

At the current BTC price of $8,430.00 at 10c kWh. You would make at flat difficulty (now) and price (today) of $2.84 per day profit. With an ROI of 881 days! Yech!

Also as you can see from the above, this is very, very, unlikely for anyone in the USA, in particular, to get an ASIC miner at the USA average price of 10c kWh, even if NO tariff/import fees/shipping. This is also my electric rate, so hopefully, you can beat this by a considerable margin and laugh at my expense!

So anyway, IMHO, we have all seen this game before. Bitmain dumping equipment in mass just before Christmas. Takes pre-orders that are not shipped around Christmas and then because of Chinese New Year the stuff you pre-ordered that will supposedly arrive end of December 2019, will actually arrive middle of February 2010, due to all the holidays. At that point, they will be distributing newer units sometime in the spring, maybe, 5nm ASIC chip units to themselves driving up hash rate for 3-5 months before releasing to the public at inflated prices as seems to be their strategy.  After say, that dump end of Summer, they then have the 3nm stuff to put in play for equipment again at their data halls first. Thus the 'long-con' IMHO (see article) of buying miners now because it is going to mature slowly theme. Hey, trust us.

Indeed it is the usual scam of rinse/wash/repeat.

The ONLY way anyone could mine these days, under these conditions, again, IMHO, is IF you are mining like heck at a loss and to HODL for fun on the expectation of BTC doubling or some such after halving in 2020 or some other long term dream. But in reality, if you believe such, you'd be better off with an automatic bank withdrawal monthly buy off BTC to HODL on an exchange until that point happens someday as your bet, of BTC doubling in price.

Looks unlikely I'll be mining anything of any note until maybe 'used' equipment in 2021 at this rate.

Anyway, fun while it lasted.

later

Brad (Bitmain: Trust us, we do 'evil' right!)