hi all ...
just a thought ...
mrspread IS a well known developer going by another profile here on bct ( and other portals ) ... thats one thing for sure ...
who that dev is - is anyones guess! ... but chances are - that spr was a testbed for other things to be implemented into the coin / project he is ACTUALLY working on ... its how a lot of the 'bigger coin' developers work ... which is why a lot of well coded / great idea coins have been abandoned ... not just for the monetary gain - but much more importantly - the code advancement gain WITHOUT ruining the reputation ( and codebase ) of the coins they are actually working on ...
there are much better ways ( and more honest ways ) of doing this - but nothing as as gratifying than successfully developing code that WORKS ... testing it in one coin - then improving it and integrating that code in the coin you are actually working on ...
#crysx
Topic: ### CWI-Thread - SpreadCoin Thread | UnOfficial Monitored Thread - page 2. (Read 4177 times)
February 01, 2017, 12:19:58 AM
January 29, 2017, 10:42:38 PM
hi all ...
ive finally got my old profile back ...
tanx to cyrus ( bct mod ) and a few others - i now have full access to my old profile ... so will be using this one as much as possible from now on ...
the 'crysx' profile will still be in use - but will be only when necessary - not as my standard ...
a lot to sort out now ...
update ...
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17653092 ...
#crysx
ive finally got my old profile back ...
tanx to cyrus ( bct mod ) and a few others - i now have full access to my old profile ... so will be using this one as much as possible from now on ...
the 'crysx' profile will still be in use - but will be only when necessary - not as my standard ...
a lot to sort out now ...
update ...
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17653092 ...
#crysx
January 25, 2017, 09:30:28 PM
Curious what you both think about georgem divesting from spreadcoin. I found his justifications a bit thin, but I was wondering what you thought?
Whatever he chooses to do, it's unlikely to make much difference. The dissipation of the critical energy of a group results in a proportional reduction in the volatility of the perceived group consensus. Those who remain committed have been so for two years now (for an arbitrary value of “committed”).
Co-incidentally, this thread is turning into a bit of an anniversary reunion. /me waves. Don't think Palm Detroit is still around tho'
Cheers
Graham
January 25, 2017, 07:33:32 AM
... official thread.
sigh. Can we tighten up the thinking just a little bit?
Quote
official (əˈfɪʃəl)
adj
1. of or relating to an office, its administration, or its duration
2. sanctioned by, recognized by, or derived from authority: an official statement.
3. appointed by authority, esp for some special duty
adj
1. of or relating to an office, its administration, or its duration
2. sanctioned by, recognized by, or derived from authority: an official statement.
3. appointed by authority, esp for some special duty
Quote
au·thor·i·ty (ə-thôr′ĭ-tē, ə-thŏr′-, ô-)
n. pl. au·thor·i·ties
1.
a. The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.
n. pl. au·thor·i·ties
1.
a. The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.
The phrase “official thread” is semantically vacuous, as attested by this very thread and the posts made to it.
Cheers
Graham
hehehe ...
im not gay - or even remotely bi or curious - but i could bloody well kiss you graham ...
#crysx
January 25, 2017, 07:30:23 AM
... official thread.
sigh. Can we tighten up the thinking just a little bit?
Quote
official (əˈfɪʃəl)
adj
1. of or relating to an office, its administration, or its duration
2. sanctioned by, recognized by, or derived from authority: an official statement.
3. appointed by authority, esp for some special duty
adj
1. of or relating to an office, its administration, or its duration
2. sanctioned by, recognized by, or derived from authority: an official statement.
3. appointed by authority, esp for some special duty
Quote
au·thor·i·ty (ə-thôr′ĭ-tē, ə-thŏr′-, ô-)
n. pl. au·thor·i·ties
1.
a. The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.
n. pl. au·thor·i·ties
1.
a. The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.
The phrase “official thread” is semantically vacuous, as attested by this very thread and the posts made to it.
Cheers
Graham
January 25, 2017, 12:49:24 AM
Guys, I wish to welcome you back in the official thread.
Hope to see you there soon.
Peace!
Hope to see you there soon.
Peace!
tanx georgem ...
seems that the trolls have thinned a little out ...
ill keep this open for a while ... if not used - as i mentioned in the op - ill be happy to lock the thread ...
but it will be at the behest of the community ( as i am one also ) ...
eitherway - open discussion and communication is always a justified option for communication ... but trolling is not ... which is the bane of my life ( and many others ) when it comes to educated and open dialogue ... especially when it comes to focus on the subject matter that is important ...
#crysx
January 25, 2017, 12:15:28 AM
Guys, I wish to welcome you back in the official thread.
Hope to see you there soon.
Peace!
Hope to see you there soon.
Peace!
January 23, 2017, 08:22:47 PM
interesting reading graham ...
i havent yet had too much time to absorb it all - but i think many points ( and ideas ) can be gleaned from it ...
i am currently at thefarm - reworking some of the areas that need to be for it to mine efficiently ... development on thefarm is stalled and i guess mining granite - spreadcoin - or any other coin is at a slight standstill for the time being ...
but i will be back 'home' ( 2500kms away - and away from my partner now for a week ... yes i miss her - im human too ) and will look over - read and reread - and absorb what has been written ...
i will be looking for a dev that will be dedicated and focused on a few things in the CWI ecosystem - of which a few ideas to be implemented ... i wonder is the spreadcoin core should be part of that? ... interesting ...
eitherway - electrician about to come and quote me on the full rewire for thefarm ... ie - destroy the bank balance again ...
...
i have a lot to catch up on when i get back home ... which will be friday my time
...
#crysx
i havent yet had too much time to absorb it all - but i think many points ( and ideas ) can be gleaned from it ...
i am currently at thefarm - reworking some of the areas that need to be for it to mine efficiently ... development on thefarm is stalled and i guess mining granite - spreadcoin - or any other coin is at a slight standstill for the time being ...
but i will be back 'home' ( 2500kms away - and away from my partner now for a week ... yes i miss her - im human too ) and will look over - read and reread - and absorb what has been written ...
i will be looking for a dev that will be dedicated and focused on a few things in the CWI ecosystem - of which a few ideas to be implemented ... i wonder is the spreadcoin core should be part of that? ... interesting ...
eitherway - electrician about to come and quote me on the full rewire for thefarm ... ie - destroy the bank balance again ...
...i have a lot to catch up on when i get back home ... which will be friday my time
...#crysx
January 16, 2017, 01:28:43 PM
I would suggest having someone update the core codebase to as latest as possible and then attempting to launch service nodes.
Chaincoin acquired masternodes in its upgrade to 0.9, the most recent Core version that doesn't necessitate a hard fork of the blockchain, c.f. the Bitcoin 0.10 release notes:
The group is initialized by either a trusted dealer or a set of founding members. The dealer or founding members initialize the group by choosing a group secret key, and computing and publishing the corresponding public parameters in the group certificate. The group secret is shared among the founding member(s) using either Shamir’s threshold secret sharing (TSS) or joint secret sharing (JSS) techniques
Threshold cryptography in P2P and MANETs: The case of access controland I realised that “initialize the group by choosing a group secret key” can be mapped to “a consensus mechanism for choosing the locus/loci”
Which brings us smartly to the key question: is the overlay network capable of ephemeral knowledge of a secret and thereby capable of offering trustworthy cryptography?
Using an overlay network to mediate threshold cryptography is not a done deal by any means - see Chen and Wu's review of the field: A Survey on Cryptography Applied to
Secure Mobile Ad Hoc Networks and Wireless Sensor Networks (PDF).
I just thought I'd chuck that into the mix.
Also, coins101 put a lot of effort into detailing the other possibilities for exploiting the advantages of an overlay network, shouldn't be overlooked at this point:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10656234
Cheers
Graham
January 16, 2017, 10:39:18 AM
I would support an effort to fork the coin.
From a maintenance perspective, It may be too late for that particular approach.
The Spreadcoin codebase is a copy of Darkcoin, itself a copy of Bitcoin 0.8.3.
That's mid-June 2013 by my reckoning.
The various Bitcoin release notes for 0.9-13 spell out how much change has occurred since then.
Cheers
Graham
Mr gjhiggins makes an excellent point (as usual).
Spreadcoins codebase is a relic of old. Building a service network on top of this antiquated code is reckless.
Bitcoin core has had several security and preference modifications since 0.8.x.
I would suggest having someone update the core codebase to as latest as possible and then attempting to launch service nodes.
I guarantee once you launch paid full nodes you will need to update core code, this is back asswords.
January 16, 2017, 08:39:11 AM
Signed mate
Nice idea
Nice idea
January 15, 2017, 11:30:10 PM
My perspective on peer-to-peer networked cryptocurrencies has changed over the years and it now points me in an entirely different direction.
Broadly, in this direction -> http://www.dodccrp.org/files/Human_Nature.pdf (HUMAN NATURE AND SOCIAL NETWORKS)
Author is: http://csreports.aspeninstitute.org/Roundtable-on-Institutional-Innovation/2013/participants/details/7/john-clippinger
Quote
Sociality and command and control
It is important at this point to relate the prior discussion to the fundamental concern of this book: how do you have effective and accountable command and control in a distributed, networked organization? In practical terms, how do you control something over which you do not have direct authority?
The findings summarized in this chapter show that humans have evolved as a social species and have consequently developed highly sophisticated social signaling and enforcement mechanisms that reward and enforce complex forms of cooperative behaviors. The implications for command and control structures are profound.
Instead of having to impose such cooperative mechanisms from above or through formal monitoring and intervention processes, highly sophisticated cooperative behaviors can be evoked by creating a context in which the appropriate social signaling takes place. Once given the appropriate signals and rules, groups can spontaneously self-organize and control themselves.
Moreover, as presented in Chapters Six and Seven, there is evidence that people self-select to identify a social network role to accomplish critical tasks and preserve the integrity of the group
As the behavioral economist Paul Zak (28) has shown in a number of his experiments on trust, subjects do not act to maximize their own self-interest as would be predicted by classic economic theory (the social realist), but engage in trust-building behaviors to develop cooperative strategies.
Such strategies for forming self-synchronizing groups have survived because they have been shown to have enormous survival value. Indeed they are not utopian, but highly pragmatic in ensuring group or species survival.
It is important at this point to relate the prior discussion to the fundamental concern of this book: how do you have effective and accountable command and control in a distributed, networked organization? In practical terms, how do you control something over which you do not have direct authority?
The findings summarized in this chapter show that humans have evolved as a social species and have consequently developed highly sophisticated social signaling and enforcement mechanisms that reward and enforce complex forms of cooperative behaviors. The implications for command and control structures are profound.
Instead of having to impose such cooperative mechanisms from above or through formal monitoring and intervention processes, highly sophisticated cooperative behaviors can be evoked by creating a context in which the appropriate social signaling takes place. Once given the appropriate signals and rules, groups can spontaneously self-organize and control themselves.
Moreover, as presented in Chapters Six and Seven, there is evidence that people self-select to identify a social network role to accomplish critical tasks and preserve the integrity of the group
As the behavioral economist Paul Zak (28) has shown in a number of his experiments on trust, subjects do not act to maximize their own self-interest as would be predicted by classic economic theory (the social realist), but engage in trust-building behaviors to develop cooperative strategies.
Such strategies for forming self-synchronizing groups have survived because they have been shown to have enormous survival value. Indeed they are not utopian, but highly pragmatic in ensuring group or species survival.
Cheers
Graham
Edit: added illustrative quote
January 15, 2017, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: MrSpread
- each masternode will broadcast messages signining certain blocks to prove that it is running.
That's along the lines I was thinking of broadcasting messages between two different blockchains to prove one is running a full Bitcoin node.
January 15, 2017, 09:06:31 PM
Unless you mean forking SPR is not worthwhile relative to other more up to date coins?
Yes.
Is SpreadCoin implementation based on DarkCoin?
No, this is original implementation.
How is it different from DarkCoin?
In SpreadCoin there are no centralized reference nodes to decide which masternodes should receive payments, it is decided by the network in decentralized maner. In DarkCoin the messages which select masternodes are separate from the blockchain and are distributed independently. This way it is possible that nodes will have different opinion on what masternode should receive next payment. In SpreadCoin all votes for masternodes will be stored in blocks and the payee will be uniquely determined from the previous blocks. Just like you can check that any transaction included in the block is correct by comparing its inputs with outputs in previous blocks you will be able to check that masternode payment is correct by checking previous blocks. Why bitcoin is so reliable? Because all nodes have exactly the same rules how to determine which blockchains are correct and which one is better (required more work) than others, these rules are only depended on blocks themselves, not on the order in which they were received them nor on any other messages which you may or may not receive in time. The network can be unstable in the case of some major event which will break connectivity between nodes but once connectivity between nodes is reestablished all nodes will stick to the same blockchain. The same will apply to SpreadCoin.
How masternodes are elected?
Each node monitor the network and assign scores to each masternode. This scores depend on how well masternodes provide their services, for instant transactions this will be time delay between transaction and its confimation by masternode. Since there may be no transactions and only elected masternodes will confirm transactions there is an empty service - each masternode will broadcast messages signining certain blocks to prove that it is running. Miners will include votes in their blocks. Votes can either be positive (elect not yet elected masternode) or negative (deelect already elected masternode). If masternode has more than 30 positive votes in the last 60 blocks then it is added to the list of elected masternodes. If masternode has more then 30 negative votes in the last 60 blocks then it is removed from the list of elected masternodes. Note that it is possible to determine which masternodes were elected at each particular block.
No, this is original implementation.
How is it different from DarkCoin?
In SpreadCoin there are no centralized reference nodes to decide which masternodes should receive payments, it is decided by the network in decentralized maner. In DarkCoin the messages which select masternodes are separate from the blockchain and are distributed independently. This way it is possible that nodes will have different opinion on what masternode should receive next payment. In SpreadCoin all votes for masternodes will be stored in blocks and the payee will be uniquely determined from the previous blocks. Just like you can check that any transaction included in the block is correct by comparing its inputs with outputs in previous blocks you will be able to check that masternode payment is correct by checking previous blocks. Why bitcoin is so reliable? Because all nodes have exactly the same rules how to determine which blockchains are correct and which one is better (required more work) than others, these rules are only depended on blocks themselves, not on the order in which they were received them nor on any other messages which you may or may not receive in time. The network can be unstable in the case of some major event which will break connectivity between nodes but once connectivity between nodes is reestablished all nodes will stick to the same blockchain. The same will apply to SpreadCoin.
How masternodes are elected?
Each node monitor the network and assign scores to each masternode. This scores depend on how well masternodes provide their services, for instant transactions this will be time delay between transaction and its confimation by masternode. Since there may be no transactions and only elected masternodes will confirm transactions there is an empty service - each masternode will broadcast messages signining certain blocks to prove that it is running. Miners will include votes in their blocks. Votes can either be positive (elect not yet elected masternode) or negative (deelect already elected masternode). If masternode has more than 30 positive votes in the last 60 blocks then it is added to the list of elected masternodes. If masternode has more then 30 negative votes in the last 60 blocks then it is removed from the list of elected masternodes. Note that it is possible to determine which masternodes were elected at each particular block.
And in the context of discussions about forking the codebase, perhaps it's also worth noting:
Quote
What is the state of instant transactions implementation in SpreadCoin?
Most effort was put into developing masternode election/payments mechanism, instant transactions are currently not fully implemented. Although masternodes confirm them there is no logic in place to replace unconfirmed transactions with the confirmed ones in the case of double spending attacks and to reject blocks with conflicting transactions. Note that rejecting blocks based on whether or not it includes transactions which conflict with confirmed instant transactions can lead to forks but this can be solved.
Most effort was put into developing masternode election/payments mechanism, instant transactions are currently not fully implemented. Although masternodes confirm them there is no logic in place to replace unconfirmed transactions with the confirmed ones in the case of double spending attacks and to reject blocks with conflicting transactions. Note that rejecting blocks based on whether or not it includes transactions which conflict with confirmed instant transactions can lead to forks but this can be solved.
My interest in the solution persists (in the context of a contemporary codebase) but I've lost contact with whatever georgem is working on. Keeping an eye on the relevant bits of bitcointalk is tolerable but I can't afford to extend that to coin-specific external forums. I'm assuming any substantive development will be reported on the main bitcointalk thread ... eventually. Other than that, as far as the rest of the community is concerned, the Spreadcoin project would seem to be effectively suspended until the development process is complete, whenever that may be. This has had the unfortunate knock-on effect of depriving the community of a shared focus for its communication and that in turn has had a deleterious effect on the cohesion of the group.
My perspective on peer-to-peer networked cryptocurrencies has changed over the years and it now points me in an entirely different direction.
Irrespective of that, there's now a whole bunch of alts with masternodes which emphasises the need for a coherent development vision to drive any separate development strand. Strictly speaking, a fork isn't required, anyone can clone the repos, create another branch and work in that - just as georgem has done with the new-wallet branch. But it wouldn't make sense to do that unless there was some sort of “public vision” to drive the development.
Cheers
Graham
January 15, 2017, 03:40:36 PM
Well I was going to set-up a new moderated thread to get rid of that ISIS twat.
January 15, 2017, 01:09:04 PM
I would support an effort to fork the coin.
From a maintenance perspective, It may be too late for that particular approach.
The Spreadcoin codebase is a copy of Darkcoin, itself a copy of Bitcoin 0.8.3.
That's mid-June 2013 by my reckoning.
The various Bitcoin release notes for 0.9-13 spell out how much change has occurred since then.
Cheers
Graham
What do you mean by too late? Just it would take too long and would be not worthwhile? Clearly it is technically possible and would just be a matter of finding someone to work on it.
Unless you mean forking SPR is not worthwhile relative to other more up to date coins?
By the way, I am curious as to your thoughts in regards to the current state of the project, if you have any. If you have some time I would love to hear them.
January 15, 2017, 12:59:21 PM
I would support an effort to fork the coin.
From a maintenance perspective, It may be too late for that particular approach.
The Spreadcoin codebase is a copy of Darkcoin, itself a copy of Bitcoin 0.8.3.
That's mid-June 2013 by my reckoning.
The various Bitcoin release notes for 0.9-13 spell out how much change has occurred since then.
Cheers
Graham
January 14, 2017, 02:06:17 AM
Hi crysx.. great that you opened this thread. Maybe copy the original OP page too? Be nice if you did. thx.
Ps Been watch this coin for a long time. Allow me to post a link to the original thread for OP info.
Old Spread coin thread. > https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-spreadcoin-decentralize-everything-decentralized-blockexplorer-coming-1045373
Hash algorithm:SpreadX11
Total supply:20 million
Block time:1 minute
Block halving:smoothly halved every 4 years
Initial block reward:6.66 SPR
Port:41678
RPC-Port:41677
Maybe copy the original OP page too? Be nice if you did. thx.Ps Been watch this coin for a long time.
Allow me to post a link to the original thread for OP info. Old Spread coin thread. > https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-spreadcoin-decentralize-everything-decentralized-blockexplorer-coming-1045373
Hash algorithm:SpreadX11
Total supply:20 million
Block time:1 minute
Block halving:smoothly halved every 4 years
Initial block reward:6.66 SPR
Port:41678
RPC-Port:41677
tanx tbear ...
this is not about taking over the thread - its about handling the crap and false profiles taht deliver the crap to the official thread - so that 'we' can have our discussions without the headache of sifting through pages of bullshit ...
so there wont be a push for the op to be copied and installed here in this thread - unless the community itself wants it to happen ...
ideas like yours are always welcome - and so are the official discussions ...
the colour of skin - or the type of religion - or the people who post here are not the issue ... the issue is the relevance to the project and the progression of it ...
hence the op is VERY raw - and very basic ...
if you all want to change it - let me know ... especially if its overwhelmingly positive towards changing the op to the original op ...
notice the original block reward was 666? ... hehehe - that mr spread! ... where the hell did he go? ... very well planned and executed project ...
#crysx
January 14, 2017, 01:43:10 AM
yes - he seems to be a capable dev ...
yes - i believe there is a future for spreadcoin ...
yes - i believe there is a future for spreadcoin ...
If you'll indulge my curiosity ... in your model, are those statements logically connected?
(Just trying to get a sense of the orientation of the thread.)
Cheers
Graham
logically connected graham? ... under the current circumstances - maybe not ... they used to be ...
accurate as individual answers to the questions posed - i do think so ...
georgem has lost his grip on the realities of being the controlling dev of spreadcoin ... this is my opinion only - but i believe its quite accurate ...
i still believe he is capable of delivering good reliable code ...
i still believe he can deliver what he says he can - though he struggles ... which is fine with any dev ...
but i also believe that he thinks that he owes nothing to no one except his 'patrons' and it seems he is now considering everyone else as cockroaches that 'he' will shed light to scatter ... come on mate ... seriously ...
georgem is completely wrong in that area IF he believes that - and from the scattered posts he has been doing - it seems so ... and so i stand by the opinion that georgem is completely wrong ...
georgem took ownership ...
georgem took control ...
georgem refuses help ...
these points ( along with many more ) - are the reasons he IS responsible ... not just to the 'patrons' - but to the entire spreadcoin community ...
its like my saying that im not responsible for the promises i make about granite ... that is complete bullshit ... if i make the promises - and i break them - then it IS my responsibility AND my 'job' as owner - controller - and controlling entity to the community to rectify these broken promises ...
this is why 'promises' dont exists with me - unless i KNOW i can keep them ...
coins101 and eightspace and you and rhino and all the others that have invested time effort and money into the project - even if it is as little as three minutes of time to write a post - are owed some degree of responsibility from the 'governing' parties ... in this case ONE governing party ...
am i bashing georgem? ... no - not at all ... im speaking my mind - and i do stand by the things that i have said ...
georgem took control - and has a responsibility to deliver what he states he will ... regardless of whether he has personal issues - a life - 10% of time into spreadcoin - or not ... he has that responsibility to deliver - yet accepts NO help whatsoever - and allows NO ONE ELSE to involve themselves in this developmental progress or the development process ... not sharing ANY code - even though its opensource - is the biggest issue that the spreadcoin community currently has ...
granite ( our flagship coin at cwi ) WILL be such a coin that does a lot of these things discussed and have them implemented in due time - and much much more ... but do i set a date as to when this will arise? ... no ... because i dont know - so why should i pretend that granite will come through with developments that i have no idea will take shape or not? ...
georgem seems to be a good guy - and i think he is capable ... but he should not have absolute control of a project he is losing to 'fud' and crap - and more importantly - losing the faith and support of the REAL community of spreadcoin ... especially those that can help - no matter how small the help is ...
as for the sense of this thread ... really its for the discussion of the developments - communication of thoughts - discussion of future and past 'spreadstuff' - and as whole a place people can get together where we will not tolerate the garbage and crap that the fake / false profiles and imbeciles that wish to post in the official thread due to its lack of control of the thread ...
I hope all the plans an designs and developments DO come through - but at the rate at which they are happening - and judging by the rate at which promises are churned out AND broken - i cannot see this happening in any reasonable time under the helm of georgem ... at least not until he comes out with the truth of all the things that are happening and not happening - AND - accepts help in the coding and development ... thats what github is for ...
had i the resources that are not stretched to the limit as is - i would fork the current code as it stands - and start on it with 'theteam' that cwi has ... but unless help is given for coding support and backing - this cannot happen as the porjects we currently have take all our resources ... at least for the time being ...
this will free georgem of his responsibilities as a 'controller' of the project - and all he has to do is spend his 10% of time on spreadcoin if he so wishes - and 'pull request' his developments to the main git ... thats it ... we would not drive away people ... yes - qualified and non-qualified developers and people that CAN help and grow the project - from pushing updates to the code ...
if ( and hopefully when ) he does - he will have my full backing once again ... if there is a question as to 'who the hell does he think he is s- aying things like that' ... well - ill answer sinply ... i am the one that backs spreadcoin - as with ALL the other community members and investors - who are the real backers of the project ... if development is stalled to no end - then developer needs to reconcile his role to the position he thrust on himself - and be answerable to the community and investors of spreadcoin - and possibly pass on the code for further development to a developer than CAN invest more than 10% of his time for the project ...
rant over ... for now
...#crysx
January 13, 2017, 10:51:29 AM
yes - he seems to be a capable dev ...
yes - i believe there is a future for spreadcoin ...
yes - i believe there is a future for spreadcoin ...
If you'll indulge my curiosity ... in your model, are those statements logically connected?
(Just trying to get a sense of the orientation of the thread.)
Cheers
Graham
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