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Topic: David Friedman and Bitcoin - page 3. (Read 8004 times)

hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
January 25, 2013, 07:56:58 AM
#28
you are probably correct in your assumption that *if* we had the perfect regulations than they could have countered the problems (which were caused by government intervention but that is neither here nor there). The problem is that no such omnipotent perfectly wise uncorrectable regulator gods exist to create these perfect regulations. So even if we assume, for the sake of discussion, that the housing bubble would have occurred naturally in a free market, it still isnt clear that regulations (created by real people not imaginary regulatory gods) would have improved this situation. This is of course assuming that the regulators are not perfectly wise but do have noble intentions. If we assume (and i think this is a more realistic assumption) that regulators pursue their own agenda and so are likely corrupted by the same institutions that they are intended to regulate than it is almost certainly the case that they made things worse.

Thank you, came here to say exactly that.

More generally, when you look back at things after you have knowledge of failures and having pondered about how to fix them, it's natural to dream about a force that would execute those actions to result in a better now. If only someone had taken control and did this and that... This creates false trust in regulatory systems, and the fact that they don't work just leads to a snowball effect. In the end, you still have the same problems plus a bunch of side-effects caused by the newly invented rules you have to live by.
legendary
Activity: 945
Merit: 1003
January 25, 2013, 07:48:20 AM
#27
The pic was taken in Madrid, Thursday 24th Jan, so pretty recent.

He knows more about Bitcoin than he lets on, but his knowledge of the Bitcoin ecosystem is off by about 6 months... things are just moving very fast, and he is almost 70yrs old.


Cool. I didn't find any bitcoin-realted posts on his blog, though...
sr. member
Activity: 303
Merit: 251
January 25, 2013, 07:38:43 AM
#26
Photo is not shopped. I was present when it was made. But ask DF himself what he means by it, he is quite responsive to comments in his blog:
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com

Great photo, flix. Thanks for posting.
Next time, please let me know and i'll try to get there and join you guys.
legendary
Activity: 1227
Merit: 1000
January 25, 2013, 06:46:06 AM
#25
Is he meaning to endorse Bitcoin here? If he is, it would be major ammunition for libertarian audiences. Unfortunately, whether coincidental or not, the photo isn't clear enough to tell it's not shopped.

Photo is not shopped. I was present when it was made. But ask DF himself what he means by it, he is quite responsive to comments in his blog:
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
January 25, 2013, 06:32:53 AM
#24
Is he meaning to endorse Bitcoin here? If he is, it would be major ammunition for libertarian audiences. Unfortunately, whether coincidental or not, the photo isn't clear enough to tell it's not shopped.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
January 25, 2013, 06:03:20 AM
#23
Fractional reserve banking. Fiat money. Central banking.

All key causes of the business cycle and its latest iteration. None result of "unregulated" markets, but rather of regulations designed to give banks special privilege.

Read about regulatory capture please...

Precisely. Unfortunately 21after2 is focusing on the symptoms instead of the actual problems hence his false diagnosis.

It's okay for us to have a difference of opinion. We can just call each other liars and be on our respective ways. Wink

you are probably correct in your assumption that *if* we had the perfect regulations than they could have countered the problems (which were caused by government intervention but that is neither here nor there). The problem is that no such omnipotent perfectly wise uncorrectable regulator gods exist to create these perfect regulations. So even if we assume, for the sake of discussion, that the housing bubble would have occurred naturally in a free market, it still isnt clear that regulations (created by real people not imaginary regulatory gods) would have improved this situation. This is of course assuming that the regulators are not perfectly wise but do have noble intentions. If we assume (and i think this is a more realistic assumption) that regulators pursue their own agenda and so are likely corrupted by the same institutions that they are intended to regulate than it is almost certainly the case that they made things worse.
legendary
Activity: 1227
Merit: 1000
January 25, 2013, 04:04:43 AM
#22
The pic was taken in Madrid, Thursday 24th Jan, so pretty recent.

He knows more about Bitcoin than he lets on, but his knowledge of the Bitcoin ecosystem is off by about 6 months... things are just moving very fast, and he is almost 70yrs old.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
January 25, 2013, 03:18:01 AM
#21
Context? Just two weeks ago David Friedman said he knows "a little" about bitcoins. (http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2013/01/thank-you-jim.html?m=1)
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1015
January 25, 2013, 03:07:20 AM
#20
This is BIG for Bitcoin, regardless of ones personal ideology!  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1004
January 25, 2013, 02:59:51 AM
#19
Not really in anyone's defense here, but the housing bubble crash was caused due to a lack in regulation rather than over-regulation.

The Housing Bubble in 4 Easy Steps
vip
Activity: 1052
Merit: 1155
January 25, 2013, 02:45:28 AM
#18
To get this thread back on track,  when and where was this photo taken?

What other prominent figures can we get to openly promote Bitcoin?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
January 24, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
#17
haha love it! Thats great!
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 16
January 24, 2013, 10:46:06 PM
#16
the housing bubble crash was caused due to a lack in regulation rather than over-regulation.

A lack of regulation, eh?  Tell me about how the price of money in the US is unregulated...

Never said it was. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
January 24, 2013, 10:35:16 PM
#15
the housing bubble crash was caused due to a lack in regulation rather than over-regulation.
LOL

the bubble was orchestrated by the government. bush made a nice speech about how he wants to get ever America in a house, they bent the rules to make damn sure everyone got themselves a mortgage.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023
Democracy is the original 51% attack
January 24, 2013, 09:34:34 PM
#14
the housing bubble crash was caused due to a lack in regulation rather than over-regulation.

A lack of regulation, eh?  Tell me about how the price of money in the US is unregulated...
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 16
January 24, 2013, 07:04:08 PM
#13
Fractional reserve banking. Fiat money. Central banking.

All key causes of the business cycle and its latest iteration. None result of "unregulated" markets, but rather of regulations designed to give banks special privilege.

Read about regulatory capture please...

Precisely. Unfortunately 21after2 is focusing on the symptoms instead of the actual problems hence his false diagnosis.

It's okay for us to have a difference of opinion. We can just call each other liars and be on our respective ways. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
January 24, 2013, 07:01:08 PM
#12
Fractional reserve banking. Fiat money. Central banking.

All key causes of the business cycle and its latest iteration. None result of "unregulated" markets, but rather of regulations designed to give banks special privilege.

Read about regulatory capture please...

Precisely. Unfortunately 21after2 is focusing on the symptoms instead of the actual problems hence his false diagnosis.
legendary
Activity: 1227
Merit: 1000
January 24, 2013, 06:58:29 PM
#11
Fractional reserve banking. Fiat money. Central banking.

All key causes of the business cycle and its latest iteration. None result of "unregulated" markets, but rather of regulations designed to give banks special privilege.

Read about regulatory capture please...

Not to mention the entire response to the bust: bailouts, QE, ZIRP... All designed to prevent liquidation of bad debt, save the banks and screw savers, Main st and taxpayers.

But go on believing that politicians and regulators are your friends....

..on a completely unrelated topic... You look like a discerning and intelligent young man... are you interested in my risk-free, double your Bitcoins in a week, FDIC-guaranteed bitcoin pyramid?
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 16
January 24, 2013, 06:50:32 PM
#10
Bitcoin and unregulated financial markets just leads to massive scamming.

Unlike our heavily over-regulated fiat trash based financial markets.  Oh wait, S&L crisis, dotcom bubble/crash, housing bubble/crash, bond bubble/crash.  

And Madoff, plus MF Global and LIBOR, etc. etc. etc.

Can't you go be a blithering statist in some other thread?   Cheesy

Not really in anyone's defense here, but the housing bubble crash was caused due to a lack in regulation rather than over-regulation. A lot of people at a lot of banks and firms were doing things that should have never been allowed even if just viewed from a common sense perspective.

Not that I'm a bank lover, but I wouldn't give (at least) the housing bubble to the over-regulation side.

Not true at all. That bubble happened precisely because of regulation. Banks were practically forced to lower lending standards by Freddie and Fannie, not to mention the FED key interest rate affected mortgage rates to get artificially low enabling many to borrow who couldn't afford it. All Wall Street did was feed upon this circle and meet a demand that was created by the government and no one else. It's called moral hazard, look it up.

It had more to do with risky and (quite frankly) idiotic investment practices due to deregulation in commercial and investment banking through the eighties and nineties (Graham-Leach-Bliley, MCA, and Garn-St. Germain in particular). Banks were lending to people who should not have been eligible for borrowing, and their mortgages were combined and shifted around into so many different convoluted securities and investments that no one truly knew the extent of what they were investing in.

The banks setting lower standards weren't doing it because they were victims. They were doing it to get what they could out of the loans before they passed it off to be someone else's problem. There's only so far you can pass the buck before it crumbles.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
January 24, 2013, 06:33:20 PM
#9
Bitcoin and unregulated financial markets just leads to massive scamming.

Unlike our heavily over-regulated fiat trash based financial markets.  Oh wait, S&L crisis, dotcom bubble/crash, housing bubble/crash, bond bubble/crash.  

And Madoff, plus MF Global and LIBOR, etc. etc. etc.

Can't you go be a blithering statist in some other thread?   Cheesy

Not really in anyone's defense here, but the housing bubble crash was caused due to a lack in regulation rather than over-regulation. A lot of people at a lot of banks and firms were doing things that should have never been allowed even if just viewed from a common sense perspective.

Not that I'm a bank lover, but I wouldn't give (at least) the housing bubble to the over-regulation side.

Not true at all. That bubble happened precisely because of regulation. Banks were practically forced to lower lending standards by Freddie and Fannie, not to mention the FED key interest rate affected mortgage rates to get artificially low enabling many to borrow who couldn't afford it. All Wall Street did was feed upon this circle and meet a demand that was created by the government and no one else. It's called moral hazard, look it up.
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