Dead Coins | Bitcointalksearch.org

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Quote from: Robixen on July 03, 2013, 08:09:49 AM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 03, 2013, 07:57:48 AM

Why would you want to do such a thing anyway? Is 25 BTC every 10 minutes too much right now for some reason?

I meant after all 21 millions of bitcoins are mined. It would give miners an incentive to mine and would make sure there are always enough coins in circulation.

That isn't necessary. There will already be plenty of coins in circulation, and miners already have an incentive from the transaction fees.

The protocol makes a promise. People make a choice based on that promise. Why would you change the promise after the system is already widely adopted and used and shake peoples faith in it? Regardless, it would require near unanimous consensus to make such a change without splitting bitcoin into two separate and incompatible currencies. Like I said, "The difficult part is convincing everybody to use your new protocol."

Robixen

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 03, 2013, 07:57:48 AM

Why would you want to do such a thing anyway? Is 25 BTC every 10 minutes too much right now for some reason?

I meant after all 21 millions of bitcoins are mined. It would give miners an incentive to mine and would make sure there are always enough coins in circulation.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Quote from: Robixen on July 03, 2013, 07:51:02 AM

Wouldn't it be possible to change the protocol to alter the amount of bitcoins mined to 1BTC per block after 21mln?

Sure. The difficult part is convincing everybody to use your new protocol.

Why would you want to do such a thing anyway? Is 25 BTC every 10 minutes too much right now for some reason?

Robixen

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Wouldn't it be possible to change the protocol to alter the amount of bitcoins mined to 1BTC per block after 21mln?

iod_89

newbie

Activity: 6

Merit: 0

Дa, c мoнeтaми вce cлoжнo, oтфopмaтиpoвaл жecткий диcк, нe coxpaнил дaнныe кoшeлькa, и вce, тю тю мoнeтки)))

Liero

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Yeah, there are only 21 million BTC !

AliceWonder

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: cryptonibb on July 02, 2013, 11:44:07 AM

He is right. 21 million is not enough for a global economy.

Sure it is.

Multiply that 21 million by 10^8 and that's how many individual units there are, and that's plenty.

mBTC is how I look at everything. If I need to change that to μBTC as demand increases the only issue is it's a little more difficult to type.

tryptamind

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

One thing that never ceases to peturb me:

CAPITALISM is making money with money.
CAPITAL is money to be used for investing,
with an expected return on that investment.
CAPITALISM is a subset of the free-market
where money is used to make more money.

Everybody seems conditioned to use the term
CAPITALISM when they should really be using
the term FREE-MARKET.

I am really loving the argument in
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoins-lost-3793
Deep/good intellectual boxing match there.

tryptamind

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 02, 2013, 02:25:58 PM

These are REALLY GREAT THREADS, SO APROPOS! hehe, I am reading them all!
I am on the 5th or 6th, but still have a lingering question, but I shall wait until
I finish them all. Thank you for posting these excellent threads.

It is such a relief and joy to me to see intelligent people and discussions,
unfortunately, I only find them in certain places on the Internet,
and never in real life Sad

hehe, sad but true!

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Quote from: cryptonibb on July 02, 2013, 02:16:22 PM

People HATE numbers. In particular those with lots of zeros in front.

Why would you put lots of zeros in front. That's just dumb.

When you buy a piece of candy, are you told that the price is 0.00000025 hundred grand?

Of course not. You move the decimal over and give it a new name: 25 cents.

Bitcoin will be the same.

nanobitcoin will be fine for a few centuries at least. Most likely a nickname will develop naturally. Perhaps nanos, or nans, or nanobits.

Metric prefixes can continue to be used if necessary beyond that, but there isn't any reason to believe that people won't come up with their own words.

Perhaps rather than 0.00000000000000035 BTC, people will simply say it is 350 sligshmacks (or whatever other name develops naturally).

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4466

Merit: 3391

Quote from: cryptonibb on July 02, 2013, 02:16:22 PM

Read the whole post.
People losing wallets and bitcoins, are losing 0,1, 0,01, 0,5, 1 BC, 10 BC,
This units are or will be huge in a few years.
So if 5 million BC are lost in the world, you would need to subdivide that microbitcoins even more....
People HATE numbers. In particular those with lots of zeros in front.

cryptonibb

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Well try to tell someone he needs to pay you:

0000000000000000000000000000000000000,0000000000000000000000000000001, of a ultra mega micro bitcoin.

Good luck trying to convince the usual joe.

And even this is not what im talking about.

Read the whole post.

People losing wallets and bitcoins, are losing 0,1, 0,01, 0,5, 1 BC, 10 BC,

This units are or will be huge in a few years.

So if 5 million BC are lost in the world, you would need to subdivide that microbitcoins even more....

People HATE numbers. In particular those with lots of zeros in front.

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4466

Merit: 3391

Quote from: cryptonibb on July 02, 2013, 11:44:07 AM

He is right. 21 million is not enough for a global economy.

2,100,000,000,000,000 satoshis are not enough? That's 350 times the number dollars in the world. At 3% annual growth, perhaps sub-satoshi units will be have to be added in 200 years.

Anyway, reiterating what DannyHamilton wrote, these topics have been discussed to death. Use your 4 hours of newbie jail to read the megabytes of discussion over the last few years.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Note, these concerns have been discussed literally THOUSANDS of times. Rather than waste everyone's time saying things that have been said a few thousand times already and triggering the exact same responses that have been made a few thousand times already, perhaps it might be worthwhile to search through the forum a bit and read what's already been written about it. This really isn't a concern. It was an intentional design feature of bitcoin, not an accidental oversight. If you don't like the design feature, you are welcome to continue to use fiat currencies where your wealth is stolen from you through the process of supply inflation.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Quote from: cryptonibb on July 02, 2013, 11:44:07 AM

He is right. 21 million is not enough for a global economy.

Fortunately the base unit of bitcoin is not the bitcoin. Bitcoin stores the value of 1 bitcoin internally as 100,000,000. So there are actually 2,100,000,000,000,000 (2.1 quadrillion) units of currency available. That should be more than enough for it to succeed in mainstream use.

J35st3r

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

The ancient Greeks had Kyklos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyklos to describe the cycle of governments from anarchy through to democracy. Nothing has really changed, modern democracy just seems to be "the end of history" (Fukuyama) . It will pass and the cycle will begin again.

Lost coins really are lost. Other than cracking wallets (which is nigh-on impossible with a good passphrase), coins from a lost wallet (or cold storage) will never be recovered in the lifetime of the universe. The 256 bit private key is an unimaginably huge number for any brute force algorithm to attempt to crack.

Oh POO. Crossposting with Danny. He da man on crypto.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Quote from: tryptamind on July 02, 2013, 11:59:12 AM

Wallets can be cracked of course, it's just that it takes computing time.
I think the average PC can crack a wallet in a few years or at least
current supercomputers can. Just takes enough trial+error
(brute force) computations.

If you have a copy of the wallet.dat file and are talking about cracking a weak password, I suppose it could be cracked through brute force.

On the other hand, if you are talking about brute force cracking a private key from a bitcoin address, it isn't going to happen unless some mathematicians discover significant weaknesses in all three of the following algorithms:

ECDSA with the secp256k1 curve
SHA-256
RIPEMD-160

Without some significant discoveries of serious weaknesses in all three algorithms, there isn't enough time or energy available to brute force the private keys regardless of how powerful the computer is.

cryptonibb

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: cp1 on July 02, 2013, 01:22:47 PM

What happens when the gangs write the laws?

That would never really work because the gang tends to abuse smaller minorities. This is the difference between a gang system and one where law exists.

Gang tends to be mobs, they abuse smaller groups or individuals that do not agree with their opinions.

And eventually you will be a minority in at least one of the ways you think, because we all think differently.

Also, the masses tend to be stupid. And allot. Most % of the population is not composed by brilliant intelligent people, but the opposite.

Do you want idiots making rules?

cp1

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Stop using branwallets

What happens when the gangs write the laws?

cryptonibb

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: tryptamind on July 02, 2013, 12:46:34 PM

bitcoin may be a lesson in why the Constitution trumps Anarchy.

The Constitution was implemented to limit "the gang".

Anarchy allows gangs without limits.

Care to explain?

Topic: Dead Coins (Read 1294 times)