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Topic: Dear Timelord2067, was it really necessary? (Read 749 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 7892
December 03, 2023, 02:40:42 AM
#33
Well that didn't take long for you to post a contradictory statement...

He was not talking about the forum itself, he's talking about DT. And you edited his quote to leave out the "trying to be" part.

DT1 is (trying to be) a democracy. You can't step out of the democracy and still expect it to work.

Except for the randomness of who makes the cut each month - in addition to the blacklisting for obvious trust system abuse - it pretty much is a democracy. Everyone in DT1 (who are voted in by other members) has an equal vote on who else gets into DT1. Its not a perfect system, and neither is democracy itself... Its the worst system of government except for all of the others.
legendary
Activity: 3626
Merit: 2209
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December 02, 2023, 11:46:47 PM
#32
Quote
Democracy

Be honest for a change - this is hardly a Democracy with the current owner able to make changes at a whim without consolation (think removal of scammer tag or the introduction of merits) - the "employees" (paid or otherwise) are able to modify posts (e.g. merge two) or arbitrarily remove or nuke a user without consolation while one admin/mod will be unable to make a judgement call so leave for another who will (unban or act on a report).

In a true democracy all sides will sit down and discuss an issue, but what are you trying to do?  Silence anyone who has a view or opinion that differs from your own.




Democracy you say?



Well that didn't take long for you to post a contradictory statement...

Of course. Bitcointalk isn't a democracy:
theymos as our benevolent dictator

Unsurprising really given a couple of weeks ago you also said it's okay to lie in the forum... 🤨
legendary
Activity: 3626
Merit: 2209
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November 19, 2023, 05:08:42 PM
#31
I couldn't have put it better myself, @holydarkness
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1398
Yes, I'm an asshole
November 15, 2023, 07:23:36 AM
#30
I am sure of one thing, several members with good judgment insisted on leaving DT and that certainly did not improve the DT system, I would say the opposite. The current situation is as it is, ignoring it certainly does not help.
Maybe they simply don't want to participate in bad Drama theater all the time.
Let me say that DT system is perfect for improving activity on Reputation board, and I have proposition to rename Reputation board to Drama board.
This is perfect place for waking up old flames and events that happened years ago, and we can all join or oppose this useless accusations.
Like any good drama series DT system will provide fuel for more and more pages/episodes of pointless discussions and arguments.

One can simply be a DT and still ignore the bad drama theater all the time. They can shy themselves away from reputation board and still actively improving the quality of the forum by tagging scammers on marketplace, loan defaulters, scam projects, plagiarist, or hunting spammers on other boards. That activities doesn't make them involved in the DT politics.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1491
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
November 15, 2023, 03:04:00 AM
#29
I am sure of one thing, several members with good judgment insisted on leaving DT and that certainly did not improve the DT system, I would say the opposite. The current situation is as it is, ignoring it certainly does not help.
Maybe they simply don't want to participate in bad Drama theater all the time.
Let me say that DT system is perfect for improving activity on Reputation board, and I have proposition to rename Reputation board to Drama board.
This is perfect place for waking up old flames and events that happened years ago, and we can all join or oppose this useless accusations.
Like any good drama series DT system will provide fuel for more and more pages/episodes of pointless discussions and arguments.

You mean there was no drama before? I'm sure when I registered there were already dramas around here and there was the old DT system.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
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November 14, 2023, 04:08:00 PM
#28
I am sure of one thing, several members with good judgment insisted on leaving DT and that certainly did not improve the DT system, I would say the opposite. The current situation is as it is, ignoring it certainly does not help.
Maybe they simply don't want to participate in bad Drama theater all the time.
Let me say that DT system is perfect for improving activity on Reputation board, and I have proposition to rename Reputation board to Drama board.
This is perfect place for waking up old flames and events that happened years ago, and we can all join or oppose this useless accusations.
Like any good drama series DT system will provide fuel for more and more pages/episodes of pointless discussions and arguments.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 3098
November 14, 2023, 02:58:21 PM
#27
I might do that, unless you or someone else can give me some real arguments and examples how current DT system is making positive changes in forum.
There is a chance I could be wrong about this, so I am ready to listen.

I am sure of one thing, several members with good judgment insisted on leaving DT and that certainly did not improve the DT system, I would say the opposite. The current situation is as it is, ignoring it certainly does not help.


to stay on topic, Royce777, I don't see a reason for you to be upset that Timelord2067 renewed red feedback. In this way, you only give more importance to it, although his word has lost its importance. After all, other members have already suggested that you ignore the whole thing and move on, I agree with that position.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
November 14, 2023, 01:50:07 PM
#26
I might do that, unless you or someone else can give me some real arguments and examples how current DT system is making positive changes in forum.
I don't really see the need to convince you. I'm okay with the current system, it's not perfect, and I sometimes don't like that my own Trust view is different from DT, but it works (more or less). If it doesn't work for you, that's totally fine too.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
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November 14, 2023, 01:38:36 PM
#25
In that case: just exclude DefaultTrust and set your Trust depth to 0. You'll only see feedback from the users on your own Trust list (which is currently empty).
I might do that, unless you or someone else can give me some real arguments and examples how current DT system is making positive changes in forum.
There is a chance I could be wrong about this, so I am ready to listen.
legendary
Activity: 3626
Merit: 2209
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November 14, 2023, 11:36:13 AM
#24
Quote
Democracy

Be honest for a change - this is hardly a Democracy with the current owner able to make changes at a whim without consolation (think removal of scammer tag or the introduction of merits) - the "employees" (paid or otherwise) are able to modify posts (e.g. merge two) or arbitrarily remove or nuke a user without consolation while one admin/mod will be unable to make a judgement call so leave for another who will (unban or act on a report).

In a true democracy all sides will sit down and discuss an issue, but what are you trying to do?  Silence anyone who has a view or opinion that differs from your own.




Democracy you say?

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
November 14, 2023, 04:48:47 AM
#23
Let me be perfectly honest and say that current DT system is creating more problems than doing anything good.
Prove me wrong.
In that case: just exclude DefaultTrust and set your Trust depth to 0. You'll only see feedback from the users on your own Trust list (which is currently empty).
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
Cashback 15%
November 13, 2023, 07:53:40 PM
#22
Here we go again, bitcointalk drama continues.  Roll Eyes
I would not care so much about feedback from this member, he is well known for doing this, and I would just ignore him.
Opening new topic about this won't change anything Ryose, just sayin.

That's how the Trust system works.
Let me be perfectly honest and say that current DT system is creating more problems than doing anything good.
Prove me wrong.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 6706
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November 13, 2023, 03:54:29 PM
#21
You're making an argument with a user that isn't even on DT currently so most will not even see the feedback. Sometimes I think you like the drama? Thick skin man, thick skin. Sometimes it's better to let it go.
Agree 100%.  Most DT members and others who fight scammers and various other scourges of our fair forum have plenty of negative feedback--retaliatory feedback, that is.  As long as it isn't from a DT member and so long as what's written in the feedback doesn't make a valid criticism, one ought not give it a second thought.  In fact, as long as you're not seeing the color of your trust under your avatar as red, I probably wouldn't even keep checking your trust page.  I used to do that years ago when I was new, but I stopped keeping track of who's left what feedback for me a long time ago.

And Royse777, I never had a problem with you personally as you know but others obviously have; if you think your reputation might in any way need some rehabilitation you probably should try to keep a low profile when it comes to issues like this one, which really isn't an issue at all.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1398
Yes, I'm an asshole
November 13, 2023, 01:51:06 PM
#20

What I said still applies. DT1 is (trying to be) a democracy. You can't step out of the democracy and still expect it to work.
Is that the definition of democracy nowadays? Where congress members get elected by the votes of other congress members, which means each DT member is like a state.  I wonder who are non DT, ordinary members?  I never understood western "democracy" or any democracy if it's even a thing, that's why I have joined the "revolution".

[...]

If I may get slightly out of topic...

Democracy can simply means a system which determined by the "citizen" of the said system, they elect their representatives, from their own, where they determine the outcome of the said "poll" instead of those representatives being automatically elected by birthright like monarch or dictatorship.

And this is held true, if we look at how the process of DT election, especially the one I marked in bold.

[...]
I will periodically (maybe every month) be reconstructing the default trust list to include everyone who matches these criteria:
 - If rank was determined solely using earned merit, then you must be of at least Member rank.
 - You must have been online sometime within the last 3 days.
 - Your trust list must include at least 10 users, not including ~distrust entries.
 - You must not be banned or manually blacklisted from selection.
 - You must have posted sometime within the last 30 days.
 - You must have at least 10 people directly trusting you each with an earned merit of at least 10, not including merit you yourself sent. These "votes" are limited.
 - You must have at least 2 people directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 250, not including merit you yourself sent. These "votes" are limited.

[...]

As you can see, the only way to be eligible to be a DT [well, DT1] is by having the "citizen" voting for them, this is not DT electing each other [congress members get elected by the votes of other congress members]. In fact, there is no criteria in the system that require a DT1 to be elected by other DT1. IIRC, there was a situation where someone without any other DT trusting him and he still got elected as a DT1.

If you're talking about "dis-votes" instead of "votes" though, i.e.: where DT members "elects" another DT to be kicked out of the system, was it not the very practice of democracy too? There is no absolute power where someone can not unilaterally kick someone else, there has to be an enough agreement between the DT to kick the said user [who abuses their power, if I may add] from the system.
copper member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 899
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November 13, 2023, 01:18:49 PM
#19

What I said still applies. DT1 is (trying to be) a democracy. You can't step out of the democracy and still expect it to work.
Is that the definition of democracy nowadays? Where congress members get elected by the votes of other congress members, which means each DT member is like a state.  I wonder who are non DT, ordinary members?  I never understood western "democracy" or any democracy if it's even a thing, that's why I have joined the "revolution".


DT or not, if your words worth nothing for others, your 1 DT vote is worthless as well, whenever you guys found someone to say the final words on a matter with 98% of community agreement on the verdict, do let me know.


OTOH Feedback is correct:

I don't trust the OP and wouldn't do a trade with the OP.

This is his reason of giving negative feedback, but of course no DT  member would do the same to him, why? Because it's wrong, but if they treated him with his own style which he treats others, he'd learn from his mistakes and realize what a warped understanding of trust system he has had all this time.


Edit, @holydarkness, the election you mentioned is rigged,  12 people with total earned merits of 600 is not considered "citizens". Why not multiply that requirements by 20 for devoting? Then lets see what happens.
legendary
Activity: 3626
Merit: 2209
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November 13, 2023, 12:38:45 PM
#18
FIFY

@Royse777: you can't just empty your Trust list and then complain about incorrect negative feedback. The improper way to handle this, is by excluding him from your own Trust list. That's how the Trust system doesn't work.
Having anyone in my trust list either trusted or distrusted does not effect in the DT voting because I volunteered to blacklist myself from DT1 voting.
What I said still applies. DT1 is (trying to be) a democracy. You can't step out of the democracy and still expect it to work.

Yeh about that - you should have vetted The Sceptical Chymist' 3000+ trust feedback (as I did) before encouraging him to rejoin the DT lottery his trust feedbacks are primarily a mixture of note book anecdotes or similar to my ONE trust feedback you are all agonizing over.   Check them out, they don't conform to your own instructions.

By rights on your yard arm he should be "~" by you.

You seem desperate to regain your DT-position.

Even you seem to fail to grasp the nuances of DT1




You can't chant "do as I say, not do as I do" then have the gall to complain if I review my trust feedbacks according to your demands.

(I thought you pinky promised to stop Trolling me?)
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
November 13, 2023, 11:14:24 AM
#17
@Royse777: you can't just empty your Trust list and then complain about incorrect negative feedback. The proper way to handle this, is by excluding him from your own Trust list. That's how the Trust system works.
Having anyone in my trust list either trusted or distrusted does not effect in the DT voting because I volunteered to blacklist myself from DT1 voting.
What I said still applies. DT1 is (trying to be) a democracy. You can't step out of the democracy and still expect it to work.

@Timelord2067 (below): try to stay on-topic.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 3878
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November 13, 2023, 10:50:08 AM
#16
@Royse777: you can't just empty your Trust list and then complain about incorrect negative feedback. The proper way to handle this, is by excluding him from your own Trust list. That's how the Trust system works.
Having anyone in my trust list either trusted or distrusted does not effect in the DT voting because I volunteered to blacklist myself from DT1 voting.


You're making an argument with a user that isn't even on DT currently so most will not even see the feedback.
But thanks OP for going on the record as saying of the 137 negative (and overall 443 trust feedbacks) that is the ONLY trust feedback that you consider to be incorrect.  (that's less than a quarter of one percent)
I was expecting a better understanding about the default trust system from a user who is on the forum since 2013 answer to yahoo62278 but youTimelord2067 proved again, it was justified that you are not in area and others are absolutely correct about you.
member
Activity: 238
Merit: 68
Freedom speech and decentralized places. 💕
November 13, 2023, 05:43:18 AM
#15
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
November 13, 2023, 05:37:59 AM
#14
So it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
That sounds like Timelord2067 Tongue His Trust abuse is well documented, and it's the reason I excluded him.

@Royse777: you can't just empty your Trust list and then complain about incorrect negative feedback. The proper way to handle this, is by excluding him from your own Trust list. That's how the Trust system works.

you might have noticed all of the negatives have been *rewritten* verbatim leaving just a mixture of neutral and positives pre-this week - next up are the neutrals to be rewritten verbatim.
You seem desperate to regain your DT-position.
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