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Topic: DefaultTrust changes (Read 86349 times)

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
January 17, 2025, 09:37:01 AM
I think this is a clear practical example of how right LoyceV was when he said that the system is too complicated. Once you understand it, you even find what happened to bastisisca funny, but for someone who does not understand the system in depth it is still paradoxical.

This is true... (also thinking at examplen's post from above... It brings laughs indeed, but if you put yourself in bastisisca's shoes it doesn't feel funny at all... I understand both points of view.

I was thinking at a thingy though... it wouldn't help too much (perhaps it wouldn't help at all), but maybe one small thing which can be done about the Trust system and the trust lists could be to rename the section "Trust" into "Marketplace Trust" and also add a hyperlink pointing to the Marketplace trust topic, which explains that

On feedback pages, you can leave trade feedback. There are no rules for this, but here are some guidelines:

...Or, another idea... to add a hyperlink on the "Trust" section pointing to LoyceV's topic with guidelines...? (And also rename that section into "Marketplace Trust"...)
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 617
not your keys not your coins
January 14, 2025, 12:36:22 PM
Having someone in DT1 that doesn't sent trust ratings is pointless, furthermore you asked to be excluded, so I did. It's nothing against you personally. Happy to remove you again now. Happy to remove you later on. Smiley

LoyceV is 100% correct in his statements.

ah ok now i understand
since i ended up in DT1 you said you don't trust my judgment since I'm in DT1, because i am in DT1
clear now i should have understood everything

sorry, the trust system is a little complex and with this little setback at least i learned something
know that i love you and that i thank you for what you do
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
January 14, 2025, 08:52:03 AM
what a mess.
By removing him from your distrust list, you just gave him back DT1 power. Exactly what he doesn't want  Smiley
But it still bothers him, because he was distrusted by someone...



Lol.

I think this is a clear practical example of how right LoyceV was when he said that the system is too complicated. Once you understand it, you even find what happened to bastisisca funny, but for someone who does not understand the system in depth it is still paradoxical.
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
January 14, 2025, 08:49:07 AM
what a mess.
By removing him from your distrust list, you just gave him back DT1 power. Exactly what he doesn't want  Smiley
But it still bothers him, because he was distrusted by someone...

[...]
I thought the update already went through, my bad. I need more coffee.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 3585
Crypto Swap Exchange
January 14, 2025, 08:38:27 AM
Having someone in DT1 that doesn't sent trust ratings is pointless, furthermore you asked to be excluded, so I did. It's nothing against you personally. Happy to remove you again now. Smiley

LoyceV is 100% correct in his statements.
what a mess.
By removing him from your distrust list, you just gave him back DT1 power. Exactly what he doesn't want  Smiley
But it still bothers him, because he was distrusted by someone...

copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
January 14, 2025, 07:56:26 AM
Having someone in DT1 that doesn't sent trust ratings is pointless, furthermore you asked to be excluded, so I did. It's nothing against you personally. Happy to remove you again now. Happy to remove you later on. Smiley

LoyceV is 100% correct in his statements.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 14, 2025, 03:38:59 AM
pretty sad that i was distrusted by Mitchell without him reading this thread, it wasn't necessary
He's not distrusting you, he's distrusting your judgement on others, and your Trust inclusions. You said you don't want to be on DT, he's only helping you reach that.

Quote
I find it truly disgusting that people operate without reading or asking something
Excluding someone who you believe shouldn't be on DT is actually how the Trust system is supposed to be used.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 617
not your keys not your coins
January 14, 2025, 03:02:19 AM
I guess the case can be archived now:

...
~bastisisca's judgement is Distrusted by:
1. Mitchell (Trust: +52 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (21) 1352 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

...

pretty sad that i was distrusted by Mitchell without him reading this thread, it wasn't necessary
I am grateful that there are people who check that these "typos" do not persist, however I find it truly disgusting that people operate without reading or asking something
its the life
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
January 13, 2025, 10:11:31 AM
~if a user has so naively misunderstood the rules for DT1~
I'm more and more thinking the entire Trust system is too complicated. By now, I think I have a pretty good understanding of how it works, but it's far too much for the majority of users to fully understand the ins and outs. That's why people intuitively use it in a different way.

Indeed, even reading your guide, it is necessary to take some time to practice and to reread if necessary to understand it in depth, and in the case we have seen, they were Italians who know each other and whom they put in their trust system? Well, those they know.

This is not to mention things that are not clear and that are variable depending on the person, such as whether to be more aggressive or less aggressive with the tags or what criteria to use to include in the trust list (there are people who leave good feedback but have no trust list or a very short one, or the other way around, a long trust list but little feedback, etc.).
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 13, 2025, 09:12:29 AM
~if a user has so naively misunderstood the rules for DT1~
I'm more and more thinking the entire Trust system is too complicated. By now, I think I have a pretty good understanding of how it works, but it's far too much for the majority of users to fully understand the ins and outs. That's why people intuitively use it in a different way.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 17063
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
January 13, 2025, 08:08:52 AM
I guess the case can be archived now:

Trust list for: bastisisca (Trust: neutral) (DT1 (-1) 679 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2025-01-11_Sat_04.28h)
Back to index

bastisisca Trusts these users' judgement:
1. babo (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (3703 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. gbianchi (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 1962 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. LoyceV (Trust: +31 / =1 / -0) (16915 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. hymperion (Trust: neutral) (517 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. Hhampuz (Trust: +140 / =4 / -0) (5758 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. giammangiato (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1354 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. Ale88 (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 2667 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. duesoldi (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (2390 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. icopress (Trust: +62 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (26) 9534 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. Plutosky (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (4376 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. conilmionome (Trust: neutral) (1105 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. Paolo.Demidov (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (2408 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. fillippone (Trust: +14 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (23) 17217 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. mendace (Trust: +1 / =1 / -0) (625 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. Lillominato89 (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (860 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
16. xenomorfo (Trust: neutral) (144 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
17. verdinio (Trust: neutral) (109 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. giorgione (Trust: neutral) (129 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

bastisisca Distrusts these users' judgement:
-


bastisisca's judgement is Trusted by:
1. Removed babo (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (3703 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
1. Removed Lillominato89 (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (860 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

~bastisisca's judgement is Distrusted by:
1. Mitchell (Trust: +52 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (21) 1352 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)


Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

In the end, if a user has so naively misunderstood the rules for DT1, we should probably try to convey the message of the Trust system.
LoyceV made a guide on this, and I translated it in my language, but some more guidance is probably needed.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 03, 2025, 11:50:39 AM
@LoyceV  look, let's make a compromise
if you see you are in my trust list from many months i trust your judgement on others
I fixed it for you. This is what it means.

To quote myself:
Don't confuse your Trust list with feedback
Trust feedback: leave feedback to people you trust or don't trust. Or leave neutral comments.
Trust list: a list of people who's judgement on others you trust (username) or don't trust (~username).



I'm going to make spaghetti now Smiley
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 617
not your keys not your coins
January 03, 2025, 11:47:08 AM
@LoyceV  look, let's make a compromise
if you see you are in my trust list from many months i trust you
in the meantime I asked to remove me from their trust list

if at the next update I'm still DT1 I'll ask theymos to remove me, it won't cost me anything anyway

I hope this fixes the problem, rereading the guide I realized I misunderstood
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 03, 2025, 11:35:21 AM
Guys, I'm not interested in being on the DT1 list, not at all
You can ask theymos to be removed from DT1-selection, several people have done that successfully.

Quote
I will ask the local Italian section to remove me
Marlboroza did that in 2019, and he's still on DT2. But he actually left a lot of good feedback, so people (including me) want to see it.

Quote
update: i officially ask to remove myself from their trust list -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chiedo-un-favore-alla-community-5525161
I posted a link to the Italian translation of my Trust guide.



Note that I know nothing about you, and I can't read your Italian posts. I only highlighted your account as it caught my attention in this monthly data dump.
May I ask you to reconsider being blacklisted from DT1?
The fact that you're not interested in DT1 makes me believe you could be the right person to be on DT1, if you spend some time reading how the trust system works and how it's supposed to be used. DT1 can be used for good or for evil, and if you use it for good, you can help improve your local board. But if you're on DT1, it should be for the right reasons.

To make DT1 more decentralized, it's important that more users create a custom Trust list.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 617
not your keys not your coins
January 03, 2025, 10:07:08 AM
Read the thread I quoted to learn the difference between leaving feedback and including people on your trust list. You need to.

Thank you, i read for sure. Have a nice day
I think I didn't misinterpret the feedback system and in any case I decided to trust some people
I don't think I did anything wrong, or rather it's how I interpreted the trust system
and I don't think this creates problems, in my trust list there are respectable people




Guys, I'm not interested in being on the DT1 list, not at all
I will ask the local Italian section to remove me, I didn't ask for anything you can look at the history

update: i officially ask to remove myself from their trust list -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chiedo-un-favore-alla-community-5525161


update2: i sent a pm at all excluded who write here
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
January 03, 2025, 10:04:14 AM
I understand
Is this something prohibited?

It's not prohibited, but whoever brought attention to this wrote the following thread:

LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system

So he does know what he is talking about.

You might find people excluding you from their trust list for that, for including people lightly.

...

Although looking at his trust list I see that it is mostly a thing of including you each other among the regulars on the Italian local board, is that so?

I saw that i was quoted, i would like to remind you how the trust system works, perhaps i recommend you re-read it.
Trusts are released if and only if you make trades, if you don't make trades you don't release trusts.
Second, everyone can decide to trust who they deem appropriate. Or not to trust.

Read the thread I quoted to learn the difference between leaving feedback and including people on your trust list. You need to.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 617
not your keys not your coins
January 03, 2025, 10:02:17 AM
...

Although looking at his trust list I see that it is mostly a thing of including you each other among the regulars on the Italian local board, is that so?

I saw that i was quoted, i would like to remind you how the trust system works, perhaps i recommend you re-read it.
Trusts are released if and only if you make trades, if you don't make trades you don't release trusts.
Second, everyone can decide to trust who they deem appropriate. Or not to trust.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 4343
The hacker spirit breaks any spell
January 03, 2025, 10:00:19 AM
now i keep the monthly report of the trust, i didn't think it was a bad thing to keep a report seeing what LoyceV does i thought it was legitimate.
If i am making a mistake in any way in reporting please let me know and i will stop doing what i started doing.
It honestly seems to me that there is nothing wrong with making a report.

What we were talking about that is questionable by you and 10 other Italian users is to include in your trust list someone who has not left a single feedback.

The last one is a weird addition to DT1: this user hasn't left a single feedback rating, but is included by 11 users:

What's also weird is most of the low-merited users that include that account haven't left any trust ratings, except when responding to ratings left on their account. 8 of the accounts created trust lists in Weeks 300 to 303, and the contents of the lists are largely the same. I dunno if this kind of coordination is ultimately for DT padding, trust score padding, or both, but that's what it looks like.

Although looking at his trust list I see that it is mostly a thing of including you each other among the regulars on the Italian local board, is that so?

I understand
Is this something prohibited?
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
January 03, 2025, 09:55:52 AM
now i keep the monthly report of the trust, i didn't think it was a bad thing to keep a report seeing what LoyceV does i thought it was legitimate.
If i am making a mistake in any way in reporting please let me know and i will stop doing what i started doing.
It honestly seems to me that there is nothing wrong with making a report.

What we were talking about that is questionable by you and 10 other Italian users is to include in your trust list someone who has not left a single feedback.

The last one is a weird addition to DT1: this user hasn't left a single feedback rating, but is included by 11 users:

What's also weird is most of the low-merited users that include that account haven't left any trust ratings, except when responding to ratings left on their account. 8 of the accounts created trust lists in Weeks 300 to 303, and the contents of the lists are largely the same. I dunno if this kind of coordination is ultimately for DT padding, trust score padding, or both, but that's what it looks like.

Although looking at his trust list I see that it is mostly a thing of including you each other among the regulars on the Italian local board, is that so?
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 4343
The hacker spirit breaks any spell
January 03, 2025, 09:13:35 AM
In the message linked in my monthly review of DT1 reshuffles, there is a translation (by yours truly)of your Guide on how to use the Trust System properly.
So, I agree with everything you said, and above all, DT inclusion should be based on the trust of a particular user.
Yet, Feedback metrics are not included in the criteria for DT inclusion.
Maybe theymos will be inspired by this and amend the rules.
Until then, I haven't much to say, and if a political battle will emerge, I am not sure I will be too interested in taking sides.
Of course, if something filthy emerges, I will be very interested.


now i keep the monthly report of the trust, i didn't think it was a bad thing to keep a report seeing what LoyceV does i thought it was legitimate.
If i am making a mistake in any way in reporting please let me know and i will stop doing what i started doing.
It honestly seems to me that there is nothing wrong with making a report.
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