Topic: Debt and Crypto? - page 4. (Read 956 times)

There is no reason why bitcoins cannot be loaned. I have loaned bitcoins to people. It doesn't seem impossible to me.

The argument that "if all 21 million bitcoins were loaned, it would not be possible to pay interest" doesn't make sense because the loaned bitcoins are not consumed or locked down and loans and interest are repaid over time.

Also, some people believe that it is impossible to have fractional reserve banking with Bitcoin, but I don't see why not. I fully expect to see FRB with bitcoins in the future.

Bitcoin should stimulate actual ownership of assets, not enhance debt in any way, and I am glad that it doesn't. It's obvious that banks aren't going anywhere, but that doesn't mean we should be supportive of them.

In the same way, we shouldn't be supportive of debt as stimulating factor allowing the economy to grow on valse hope and unlimited value creation. I like the difference in thinking that Bitcoin brought to the world.

I also like the fact that you can do whatever you want as person. If you think that the current way of growing an economy is the way to move forward and sustainable in the very long term, then you're free to think so.

I am however differentiating myself by following a different path, away from what I believe isn't right.

Most of the banks, multi purpose cooperative, lending company, government program that let owed people like house and lot, vehicles, business capital, etc. helped and gave an opportunity to get what they want or they dreamed of.  Some of them are maybe good but some of them will stuck on you to pay back forever like the house and lot which double or triples the original price.  It sucks paying those bills for the rest of your life.  And now if we talk about crypto if you are a wise investor you have to learn though many strategy how you can minimize the lifestyle you may have.  Invest and pull out the profit and its up to you to decide the rest.  

An "alternative"?

So you are saying that at one point, bitcoin will end with all this fake debt that all the countries are having right now? Well.. You clearly do not understand the concept of Debt.

I understand what you are saying and I do agree with you, but I don't think bitcoin or any other crypto will ever shut down banks entirely. Maybe our economy will change considerably in the future, but I think that debt will always be a part of it, because of the points you've made. I don't see crypto as a replacement for fiat, and I think countries will always have their own currencies. That doesn't mean that bitcoin can exist as well, and facilitate international transactions, act as a safe store of value, where your economies will be safe even if your country faces problems, because BTC will not lose it's value (just like gold). It will have the advantage of being easy to spend, and store, and this is one key point that favors BTC over gold. It's also a lot less centralized, and easy to acquire than gold. So basically I think people will still use fiat, but will now have another option to keep their economies safe, and to transact money with other persons, but people will always use fiat as well, or some other thing that is issued and controlled by a country.

You know what op, people who are hating on banks and want it to be gone are either hypocrites or delusional. I have said this because we clearly cannot survive as an economy without the banks that most of the people here wants to be gone immediately. These type of people mostly think only of what they think will be a good thing to happen without even thinking about what will be the consequences because they are either close minded people or just too lazy to find out more about how things are connected with each other. Don't get me wrong, I too hate the banks and the way they force into us the overly outdated monetary system we currently have today. Clearly, they still really hate the idea that they cannot control and benefit from the existence of crypto currencies. But even stating so, I wouldn't want them to be gone just yet(not till issues that the cryptos are currently experiencing are already taken cared of).

Great post by the way op, you deserve a merit so imma give you one.

I see debt as a poison that slowly but surely has become a tool that allows the upper layer to suppress the lower class of the society. We're living in a system that's purely based on debt, and build up with debt. Central banks keep printing money like it's nothing, just to keep the economy going. People are able to take out loans and mortgages that don't represent their own financial capabilities, which basically means that financial institutions are willingly putting people into debt. I am anti any form of debt, and handle the main principle being that if you don't have the money for it, don't buy it.

Technically there are certain ways to allow whatever entity to issue certain crypto tokens endlessly, just like central banks are able to print money, but that doesn't change anything from the fact that you're not improving anything. The only thing you're doing is relocate the problem and give it a different name. Nah, debt in whatever form of shape is poison.

About the debt problem people can use it to pay interest on a large scale using the satoshi as unit. If 1 satoshi is equals to 1$, It would be possible to pay large scale interest using btc and lending is not an issue because it can also be done using btc. Another roundabout solution to this problem is the creation of a new coin dedicated to it, but the coin itself might not be decentralized.

I always saw Bitcoin like a gold alternative but better, since you can carry it and move it around without being stopped and put to prison on every border if you tried to escape your collapsing government.

As far as debt goes, technically it's possible via payment channels. Just like on Poloniex people ask for coins to get loans, you put them there and they pay you back with an interest, but done right, decentralized with payment channels. I think the lightning network will make it possible to make passive income by decentralized loans. Of course im not sure how that would work in practice since there must be some kind of collateral but we'll see.

What has caused the massive collapses has been uncontrollable debt, they print too much money, and the debt never stops growing, at some point it becomes a bit of a joke. Having a finite supply doesn't mean there isn't people out there willing to put their bitcoins somewhere so people can get loans. There could be not enough offer for people wanting to get loans tho, this is all very difficult for me to theorize since I don't know how it would work in practice.

In any case, other cryptos could be delivered for that, the challenge is how to do it in a decentralized way.

I was wondering what everybody's thoughts were on issuing debt based on cryptocurrency. Debt is an extremely important factor for economies to grow. In a simple example, very few people would actually be able to purchase a house without debt. If you can't purchase large cost items like cars and houses, to name a few, the economy will literally collapse. Not to mention that transportation would become a very big problem. There's more examples to be made for starting businesses and many more but I won't discuss that in my original post.

Cryptocurrency is not inherently a debt instrument and cannot simply be "printed" or issued past its limit. I know a lot of people here feel that banks should die and banks are evil, but realistically I don't see how an economy can survive without debt instruments and issuers. If Bitcoin does replace all currency, does this mean that banks will collapse, or issue their own cryptocurrency to 'lend coins' to people who would like to make a big purchase and pay it off over time? Would it even be possible to pay interest back on a large scale if a coin has a finite supply? If there is 21 million Bitcoin in debt lent out and circulating, how could there possibly be a way to collect more than that by the bank. Would multiple cryptocurrencies solve a problem like that, or would it mean that the debt just gets pushed off onto some other coin and then also onto another infinitely?

I love Bitcoin and all this technology, however I have not theorized a way in which it can completely rework debt instruments and the institutions that supply them. IE: Banks.

Would love to have a discussion going on this topic. I have pretty limited economic logic!