Decentralised Gambling Game vDice Announces Crowdsale - page 5.

RHavar

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First of all, I think what you're doing is incredibly cool from a technology point of view. I think it's awesome you guys are pushing forward on that front.

Quote from: vdice_io on October 14, 2016, 04:19:08 PM

The Smart Contract is what requires reputation. As you are sending your bet Tx only to that. So it is reputation of code, NOT people.
This trivially duplicated argument for code is pointless. Bitcoin can be "trivially duplicated" too. Just ask Charlie Lee. An experience is more than just its code base.

That's really not remotely comparable. Let's say I make a copy of bitcoin, it has little to no for anyone because it's not bitcoin or interoperable with it and doesn't enjoy the network effect, blah blah blah.

But now let's take a smart contract gambling service, let's say I duplicate it and change your 1.9% house edge to 0.1%. Which I can sanely do, because I don't have any development or operating costs. Now from a users point of view, they are two services which have the exact reputation and trust required (same code) but one means they will lose 19 times less on average. I personally would gamble on the 0.1% edge on, I guess you're counting on people like me being in the minority?

vdice_io

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Quote from: dogedice.me on October 14, 2016, 05:06:53 PM

Quote from: maku on October 14, 2016, 05:00:25 PM

Quote from: dogedice.me on October 14, 2016, 04:38:57 PM

And as soon as you will even think about regulation, you will have to close it as AML\KYC will require full due diligence and funds seizure. So again, better pivot right now.

Is it even possible to regulate decentralized casino like that? I mean it is smart contract - a script working in a blockchain, with not owner behind it.
Isn't regulating service like that quite impossible with out current laws?

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It means that there's zero chance they will get any license.

Regards,
Alex.

Incorrect. And also, a lack of understanding of smart contract operations. Nice handle BTW. Wink

vdice_io

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Quote from: dogedice.me on October 14, 2016, 04:38:57 PM

Actually as RHavar noticed - people wouldn't wait 10 seconds to make a bet. BitDice has almost 20M bets with 300M ETH wagered within 9 Month. Users love good UI and instant reply. We thought about this model when we've added ETH 9 month ago, but this would kill the joy. Unfortunately your model won't work in casino business.

And as soon as you will even think about regulation, you will have to close it as AML\KYC will require full due diligence and funds seizure. So again, better pivot right now.

Regards,
Alex.

Sure, not at 10s. But at 1 or 2s they will.

In a few months we've already built technology and got it down to 3-5 on average.
That's on the morden test network now. It's undergoing Peer review.

With Ethereum we will easily compete on time with central database services. And a lot sooner than people think.

We have no custodial control. We are writing software here. We never touch any funds. We just write code and stick it on a p2p network.
Please take a look at where the house comes from and where it is stored. It has nothing to do with us.

You do know how Ethereum works? Right?

vdice_io

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Quote from: maku on October 14, 2016, 04:28:43 PM

My main complain is House Edge. I would rather trust some old fashioned gambling platform with good reputation and 1% or less House Edge than try to switch to 1.9% HE.
Also no wonder if I never heard about vDice if this is ETH based - I am mainly bitcoin gambler.

You should get some ETH, it's a lot better. Tongue

On a serious note. We're very early in the piece here. Like, super early.

Right now we need to;

1). Drive on-blockchain Tx time down to a level to compete with central database services.
We are already doing that. It will be 3-5 s. by the end of the year, with new Oracle proof. So imagine how fast we'll have it by this time next year.

2). As we drive down processing time, we will also be increasing efficiency, and driving down house-edge.
1% will exist for Ethereum gambling Dapps very soon.

3). There are already pegged tokens on chains like bitshares. They are coming for Ethereum.
Then effective fiat betting will come. We will be leading the charge with that.

Just a little vision is all that is required here. The technology already works.

Sometimes I guess people forget how new Ethereum is.
Or, they haven't worked with it and don't see how much promise it really has.

When you build with it, it becomes very obvious.
And it's quite clear why Coinbase bothered to add it as the only ALT.

BTW, I love how all the negative comments are coming from people with legacy gambling site ads in their pics and banners. No dog in the race hey guys ?

I would not bet against us, that's for sure.

dogedice.me

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Quote from: maku on October 14, 2016, 05:00:25 PM

Quote from: dogedice.me on October 14, 2016, 04:38:57 PM

And as soon as you will even think about regulation, you will have to close it as AML\KYC will require full due diligence and funds seizure. So again, better pivot right now.

Is it even possible to regulate decentralized casino like that? I mean it is smart contract - a script working in a blockchain, with not owner behind it.
Isn't regulating service like that quite impossible with out current laws?

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It means that there's zero chance they will get any license.

Regards,
Alex.

maku

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Activity: 1288

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dogedice.me on October 14, 2016, 04:38:57 PM

And as soon as you will even think about regulation, you will have to close it as AML\KYC will require full due diligence and funds seizure. So again, better pivot right now.

Is it even possible to regulate decentralized casino like that? I mean it is smart contract - a script working in a blockchain, with not owner behind it.
Isn't regulating service like that quite impossible with our current laws?

dogedice.me

hero member

Activity: 776

Merit: 522

Actually as RHavar noticed - people wouldn't wait 10 seconds to make a bet. BitDice has almost 20M bets with 300M ETH wagered within 9 Month. Users love good UI and instant reply. We thought about this model when we've added ETH 9 month ago, but this would kill the joy. Unfortunately your model won't work in casino business.

And as soon as you will even think about regulation, you will have to close it as AML\KYC will require full due diligence and funds seizure. So again, better pivot right now.

Regards,
Alex.

maku

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Activity: 1288

Merit: 1000

My main complain is House Edge. I would rather trust some old fashioned gambling platform with good reputation and 1% or less House Edge than try to switch to 1.9% HE.
Also no wonder if I never heard about vDice if this is ETH based - I am mainly bitcoin gambler.

vdice_io

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Activity: 194

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Quote from: RHavar on October 14, 2016, 01:41:13 PM

Quote from: noel57 on October 14, 2016, 01:12:10 PM

It’s only possible because of Ethereum and the Blockchain.

Trustless gambling can be done in bitcoin as well, although it's kind of awkward. I have worked through the logic of how to do a trustless 50% win, 50% lose bet (with arbitrary payouts) on a napkin, and believe it would work

-- I would love to see someone try and do this with Bitcoin, fully decentralized.
SD did already. They are the benchmark for Decentralized blockchain gambling. But even they needed a server architecture for randomness.
Building this with Ethereum has been an absolute delight. With Bitcoin it would be an absolute headache. Not sure why you'd bother when Ethereum exists.
We love Bitcoin. But above all we are tool builders. And we are not Bitcoin maximalists.

Quote

Nobody touches your money. You don’t have to trust anybody with your money. It’s just you and the Smart Contract. We believe this is the future of gambling.

If so, it doesn't sound like a future I'd want to invest in. If it's trustless, there's no need for reputation, and if it's a smart contract it can be trivially duplicated.

I however think the biggest issues are going to be UX ones, it's going to be hard to complete with the sleek experience offered by gambling sites when you are interacting with a smart contract, and waiting on blocks (even if they're every 10 seconds)

The Smart Contract is what requires reputation. As you are sending your bet Tx only to that. So it is reputation of code, NOT people.
This trivially duplicated argument for code is pointless. Bitcoin can be "trivially duplicated" too. Just ask Charlie Lee. An experience is more than just its code base.

In terms of UX, well; the game functions EXACTLY as Classic SatoshiDICE for Bitcoin. That did pretty well. Wink

Did you ever play that pre-2013.

Otherwise, the bet processing times need to come down. That is a fair point.
We're already testing new proofs with our Oracle. We will have that down to 3-5s on blockchain, by the end of the year.

vdice_io

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Quote from: Dogedigital on October 14, 2016, 01:19:36 PM

Quote from: noel57 on October 14, 2016, 01:12:10 PM

How vDice works?

It is a fully decentralized gambling game. It is completely decentralized.

It’s only possible because of Ethereum and the Blockchain. There are no servers.

You send a bet to the Smart Contract. The Smart Contract processes the bet. The Smart Contract sends back your win, automatically.

Nobody touches your money. You don’t have to trust anybody with your money. It’s just you and the Smart Contract. We believe this is the future of gambling.

Couldn't someone just replicate the smart contracts in this case then?

Sure, in the same way that someone can just replicate the bitcoin code base too. But, as we all know, in open source, a Dapp is more than just its code base.
Go for it though. We'd welcome the competition. We're quite sure we would win the business and operations side of things.

vdice_io

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Quote from: Patatas on October 14, 2016, 12:28:34 PM

Decentralized Gambling sounds vague.In Layman's terms,there is no owner of the website or anyone can be the owner of the website.
According to Colby,no one touches your coins or the bets,it's only the smart contracts which does all the processing.Well,where does the money go ? House edge ? Who takes the profits ? Worst of all,it's based on ETH,that's a no no.

"Decentralized Gambling sounds vague."

-- Why?

"In Layman's terms,there is no owner of the website or anyone can be the owner of the website."

-- The website displays smart contract addresses. The website isn't the game. The smart contract code is the game. It lives on the Ethereum blockchain.
The logic and code for each game is verifiable on the blockchain. There is no server architecture. The blockchain is the database processing bets.

"According to Colby,no one touches your coins or the bets,it's only the smart contracts which does all the processing. Well,where does the money go ?"

-- The money goes directly from your wallet, to the smart contract. The smart contract code receives the Tx directly and the logic executes (that's how Ethereum smart contracts work.
Then, if it wins, it sends you back your win. If it losses, it sends back one wei. The "house" is also stored at the smart contract.

-- House edge ? Who takes the profits ?

1.9% House edge at the moment.
The profits go to the people who hold the vSlice tokens. Again, via smart contract.
The ICO is based on a smart contract that creates the token. This token is tied directly to game profits. Those profits are shared automatically with token holders.

Worst of all,it's based on ETH,that's a no no.

-- Lol. Bitcoin maximalist I guess. 7 transactions a second should be fun. I love Bitcoin too. But it's horrible to work with at the moment.
In the words of Tim Swanson; "easiest way to make an Ethereum developer is to put a programmer who wants to build stuff into a room with Bitcoin maximalists for 2 months.
https://twitter.com/ofnumbers/status/781898107361431553

vdice_io

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Quote from: Dogedigital on October 14, 2016, 12:22:57 PM

"We are at least 18 months ahead of the competition right now"

What supports this claim? How old is this site?

edit;

Just checked and the last bet was over 26 hours ago.

The last bet was 26hrs ago, because we have been upgrading contract for the last 24hrs.

The site itself was launched on June 13th and started processing bets, on the live chain.
We had been working on the code many months before that.

We support the claim in our Development Roadmap here:
https://blog.vdice.io/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/vDice_Development_Roadmap.pdf

We are working a new proof with our oracle. It is on the merdern test-net. Once peer-reviewed it will go live.
That is scheduled for the end of the year. Then bets will process, on the Ethereum blockchain (fully decentralized), in about 3-5s.

This puts us well ahead of the competition for on-blockchain Tx processing, through an Oracle.

Take a look around. There is only one other live, blockchain gambling game for Ethereum.
And that does Randomness in a different way. We don't think this method will stand the test of time. We can go into why if you like.

The other blockchain gambling games for Ethereum are just empty promises at this stage. We are live. Our tech. is under constant development

vdice_io

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Quote from: newIndia on October 14, 2016, 11:37:35 AM

Quote from: LiberOptions on October 14, 2016, 11:21:34 AM

Decentralised Gambling Game vDice Announces Crowdsale

NewsBTC recently got the opportunity to interview Jason Colby, the lead developer of vDice, the world’s first fully decentralised gambling game. As we dwelled into the conversation, Colby introduced us with many aspects of their new platform...

Link

KIBO also promoted them as world's first decentralized gambling. It would be interesting to see how decentralized these games really are...

Kibo doesn't exist. We exist.
You can play us right now. Our code is here, for your inspections:

https://github.com/jamesgroton/vDice-Contract-Code

Otherwise, just go and bet and judge for yourself.

We are FULLY decentralized. The code and logic live on the Ethereum blockchain.
When you send a bet, the Tx goes straight to the smart contract. It is processed by the smart contract.
Then a win is returned by the Smart Contract to the address that sent the bet.

It is the player interacting with the logic on the blockchain. There is no server architecture at all.

We think that is pretty darn decentralized.
Original SD was similar. Only, it was limited by Bitcoin's functionality. So there had to be a server for randomness. We suffer no such constraints.

irfan_pak10

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Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI

Quote from: LiberOptions on October 14, 2016, 11:21:34 AM

Decentralised Gambling Game vDice Announces Crowdsale

NewsBTC recently got the opportunity to interview Jason Colby, the lead developer of vDice, the world’s first fully decentralised gambling game. As we dwelled into the conversation, Colby introduced us with many aspects of their new platform...

Link

Thanks dear for posting it here.

@Everyone else, if you People have any question regarding vDice ICO please Ask here: [ANN] vDice Ethereum Blockchain Gambling || Crowdsale

RHavar

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Merit: 1886

Quote from: noel57 on October 14, 2016, 01:12:10 PM

It’s only possible because of Ethereum and the Blockchain.

Trustless gambling can be done in bitcoin as well, although it's kind of awkward. I have worked through the logic of how to do a trustless 50% win, 50% lose bet (with arbitrary payouts) on a napkin, and believe it would work

Quote

Nobody touches your money. You don’t have to trust anybody with your money. It’s just you and the Smart Contract. We believe this is the future of gambling.

If so, it doesn't sound like a future I'd want to invest in. If it's trustless, there's no need for reputation, and if it's a smart contract it can be trivially duplicated.

I however think the biggest issues are going to be UX ones, it's going to be hard to complete with the sleek experience offered by gambling sites when you are interacting with a smart contract, and waiting on blocks (even if they're every 10 seconds)

Dogedigital

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Quote from: noel57 on October 14, 2016, 01:12:10 PM

How vDice works?

It is a fully decentralized gambling game. It is completely decentralized.

It’s only possible because of Ethereum and the Blockchain. There are no servers.

You send a bet to the Smart Contract. The Smart Contract processes the bet. The Smart Contract sends back your win, automatically.

Nobody touches your money. You don’t have to trust anybody with your money. It’s just you and the Smart Contract. We believe this is the future of gambling.

Couldn't someone just replicate the smart contracts in this case then?

noel57

sr. member

Activity: 392

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How vDice works?

It is a fully decentralized gambling game. It is completely decentralized.

It’s only possible because of Ethereum and the Blockchain. There are no servers.

You send a bet to the Smart Contract. The Smart Contract processes the bet. The Smart Contract sends back your win, automatically.

Nobody touches your money. You don’t have to trust anybody with your money. It’s just you and the Smart Contract. We believe this is the future of gambling.

Patatas

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Providing AI/ChatGpt Services - PM!

Decentralized Gambling sounds vague.In Layman's terms,there is no owner of the website or anyone can be the owner of the website.
According to Colby,no one touches your coins or the bets,it's only the smart contracts which does all the processing.Well,where does the money go ? House edge ? Who takes the profits ? Worst of all,it's based on ETH,that's a no no.

Dogedigital

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Activity: 1330

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"We are at least 18 months ahead of the competition right now"

What supports this claim? How old is this site?

edit;

Just checked and the last bet was over 26 hours ago.

newIndia

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Quote from: LiberOptions on October 14, 2016, 11:21:34 AM

Decentralised Gambling Game vDice Announces Crowdsale

NewsBTC recently got the opportunity to interview Jason Colby, the lead developer of vDice, the world’s first fully decentralised gambling game. As we dwelled into the conversation, Colby introduced us with many aspects of their new platform...

Link

KIBO also promoted them as world's first decentralized gambling. It would be interesting to see how decentralized these games really are...

Topic: Decentralised Gambling Game vDice Announces Crowdsale - page 5. (Read 4730 times)