Will definitely keep watching this project.
Topic: Decentralized exchange Bitsquare crowdfunding campain now live! (Read 4102 times)
Good luck you guys
Will definitely keep watching this project.
Will definitely keep watching this project.
February 10, 2015, 07:46:24 AM
February 09, 2015, 03:00:54 PM
Bump. Last day to pledge!
Last 3 hours (will close at midnight CET).
46% funded atm.
February 09, 2015, 02:58:14 PM
Bump. Last day to pledge!
February 07, 2015, 11:18:39 AM
New status 48 pledgers and 39% funded.
Keep it up!
Keep it up!
February 05, 2015, 11:49:39 AM
What is the point of the Minimum donation limit? I wanted to give you guys five bucks worth of Bitcoin, but the minimum donation level is around 38 bucks. Not exactly a low barrier of entry. I'm not interested in getting a wood wallet, but I am interested in getting my five bucks back if the campaign doesn't fund.
Just wondering why you chose to cut our smaller donations in the lighthouse campaign?
Just wondering why you chose to cut our smaller donations in the lighthouse campaign?
Its a technical limitation of the transaction size, so max. 680 pledges are possible.
February 05, 2015, 11:39:45 AM
What is the point of the Minimum donation limit? I wanted to give you guys five bucks worth of Bitcoin, but the minimum donation level is around 38 bucks. Not exactly a low barrier of entry. I'm not interested in getting a wood wallet, but I am interested in getting my five bucks back if the campaign doesn't fund.
Just wondering why you chose to cut our smaller donations in the lighthouse campaign?
Just wondering why you chose to cut our smaller donations in the lighthouse campaign?
February 04, 2015, 11:01:21 AM
I have a Q regarding how bitsquare operates. I was checking the website & the whitepaper. The basic functionality is well explained in the following image...
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
You should really read the white paper. It addresses all of your worries and is a quick read. Regarding 1. and 2. the decentralized arbitration system steps into place. LBTC uses centralized escrow and holds funds.
I have read the whitepaper indeed and then only asking Qs. Moreover, this is not first time I'm asking Q regarding Bitsquare.io or OpenBazaar as both of them have the same escrow dependency. Every time people actually tend to skip these Qs and point at the whitepaper which really does not address this issue.
My point is simple: As long as you have escrow dependency, you are not decentralized and trustless like Bitcoin network. Both Bitsquare.io or OpenBazaar are trying to give people a flavor of decentralized and trustless network, though in reality they are relying on a faulty trust system like BitcoinTalk's DefaultTrust.
The decentralized arbitration system works in a way that everybody can become an arbitrator. To avoid collusion or misbehaviour the arbitrator need to pay in a high security deposit to a 4of6 multisig. Keyholders are surpreme court arbitrators. Surpreme court arbitrators are those with the highest reputation. Reputation is derived form higher security deposit, many solved cases and real life ID. Traders select a number of arbitrators which the are willing to accept. You can only trade with another who has at least 1 arbitrator in common. If there are more in common, selection is done in a unswayable way, to avoid additional to the protection from sec. deposit collusion risk.
More details can be found here:
https://bitsquare.io/bitsquare.pdf
https://bitsquare.io/arbitration_system.pdf
https://bitsquare.io/risk_analysis.pdf
https://bitsquare.io/blog/bitsquare-arbitration-system/
https://bitsquare.io/blog/bitsquare-protection-mechanisms/
Hope that helps.
February 04, 2015, 09:29:50 AM
I have a Q regarding how bitsquare operates. I was checking the website & the whitepaper. The basic functionality is well explained in the following image...
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
You should really read the white paper. It addresses all of your worries and is a quick read. Regarding 1. and 2. the decentralized arbitration system steps into place. LBTC uses centralized escrow and holds funds.
I have read the whitepaper indeed and then only asking Qs. Moreover, this is not first time I'm asking Q regarding Bitsquare.io or OpenBazaar as both of them have the same escrow dependency. Every time people actually tend to skip these Qs and point at the whitepaper which really does not address this issue.
My point is simple: As long as you have escrow dependency, you are not decentralized and trustless like Bitcoin network. Both Bitsquare.io or OpenBazaar are trying to give people a flavor of decentralized and trustless network, though in reality they are relying on a faulty trust system like BitcoinTalk's DefaultTrust.
February 04, 2015, 08:37:41 AM
I have a Q regarding how bitsquare operates. I was checking the website & the whitepaper. The basic functionality is well explained in the following image...
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
You should really read the white paper. It addresses all of your worries and is a quick read. Regarding 1. and 2. the decentralized arbitration system steps into place. LBTC uses centralized escrow and holds funds.
February 04, 2015, 07:25:10 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. This situation is very unlikely to happen. Bitsquare lowers the incentive for scammers as much as possible by a set of measures.
I think I understand the basics, especially how there is an incentive for both buyers and sellers to NOT try and commit fraud or cheat (as it would only *cost* them money). But I'm trying to pinpoint how or where the trust factor comes into play. If I want to buy bitcoins, I accept an order, and wire my USD or EUR, to whom or where do I wire it? Directly to the seller, or to an unknown intermediary? If at any point the arbitrator controls my wired funds and/or our security deposits, how can we (both me and the seller) be sure the arbitrator doesn't disappear with my fiat?
Quote
The arbitrator is a more or less randomly chosen person to solve cases where one trade participant is cheating. If you're not happy with the decision of the arbitrator (unlikely case of collusion between the arbitrator and the scammer) you can call another arbitrator. The case will be looked into and in case of collusion, arbitrator rights plus arbitrator security deposits (which is at least two times the trade volume) will be taken from the colluding arbitrator.
Ah, OK, I didn't notice that before, that's good. But who or what controls his security deposit, or where does an arbitrator send his security payment to?Thanks again, trying to get BitSquare's security mechanism as clear as possible.
You do the Fiat transfer directly to your trade peer via online banking or whatever method you choose. Similar like LocalBitcoin.
The Bitcoin is held in 2of3 MultiSig. Keyholders are both traders and an arbitrator.
The security deposit of the arbitrator is held in a 4of6 MS. Keyholders are the "supreme court" arbitrators which are the arbitrators with the highest reputation (not anonymous, higher security deposit, many cases solved successfully). If an arbitrator colludes or does not meet defined quality standards, he will lose all his security deposit, which is in any case much more what he can win when trying to cheat.
If you are interested in more details please read our whitepaper and the related papers about the arbitration system and risk analysis or check out the videos.
February 04, 2015, 07:14:26 AM
I have a Q regarding how bitsquare operates. I was checking the website & the whitepaper. The basic functionality is well explained in the following image...
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
But, it is an ideal situation. What happens when...
1. Without sending the FIAT, Alice claims that she has sent it ?
2. After receiving the FIAT, Bob claims he has not received it ?
If there is no manual intervention, then who will make these decisions ? There must be an escrow and by using that escrow, we are eventually back to that centralized structure. I think LocalBitcoins or similar escrow based exchanges will be far more trusted than a BitSquare.io escrow, because their business is trust and their identities are known, which is not the case for anonymous escrows of BitSquare.io .
February 04, 2015, 07:05:51 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. This situation is very unlikely to happen. Bitsquare lowers the incentive for scammers as much as possible by a set of measures.
I think I understand the basics, especially how there is an incentive for both buyers and sellers to NOT try and commit fraud or cheat (as it would only *cost* them money). But I'm trying to pinpoint how or where the trust factor comes into play. If I want to buy bitcoins, I accept an order, and wire my USD or EUR, to whom or where do I wire it? Directly to the seller, or to an unknown intermediary? If at any point the arbitrator controls my wired funds and/or our security deposits, how can we (both me and the seller) be sure the arbitrator doesn't disappear with my fiat?
Quote
The arbitrator is a more or less randomly chosen person to solve cases where one trade participant is cheating. If you're not happy with the decision of the arbitrator (unlikely case of collusion between the arbitrator and the scammer) you can call another arbitrator. The case will be looked into and in case of collusion, arbitrator rights plus arbitrator security deposits (which is at least two times the trade volume) will be taken from the colluding arbitrator.
Ah, OK, I didn't notice that before, that's good. But who or what controls his security deposit, or where does an arbitrator send his security payment to?Thanks again, trying to get BitSquare's security mechanism as clear as possible.
February 04, 2015, 05:39:25 AM
Alternatively, you could donate to the address on our 'contribute' page: https://bitsquare.io/contribute/ . We might use donations from there to fill-up Lighthouse donations:
1BVxNn3T12veSK6DgqwU4Hdn7QHcDDRag7
1BVxNn3T12veSK6DgqwU4Hdn7QHcDDRag7
You guys really need to make this funding campaign much clearer. I love this project, it has such a lot of potential, but I can't donate knowing that:
- You've structured the funding rounds in a way that could make the decision to donate regrettable
- You have at least 2 funding streams, and no explanation of how these two are accounted for in respect of each other
This would matter less if you were not asking for so much money. Surely it's better to try to encourage as many bold donations as possible?
I think when you read the information published on our crowd funding page (https://bitsquare.io/crowdfunding/) it should be pretty clear. Use our official sources at primary information source.
The crowd funding works with Lighthouse and is an all-or-nothing model. 120 BTC is the goal and the campaign ends on 9th of february (midnight UTC 0).
The regular donation address on our webpage was always there and is independent from the crowd funding.
As people mentioned out in forums or reddit that the min. pledge of 0.175 BTC might be too hight for some people, they discussed some ideas with sub projects or using the regular donation address and sum that up to the campaign. I will see how it goes until the end of the campaign, and if it is the case that we miss the goal but would reach it with the donations at the regular donation address, I will move that money over to the campaign. But that is hypothetical and if you check the amount dontated at the regular donation address, it does not look like it has any substantial influence of the success of the campaign.
February 03, 2015, 08:50:20 AM
Alternatively, you could donate to the address on our 'contribute' page: https://bitsquare.io/contribute/ . We might use donations from there to fill-up Lighthouse donations:
1BVxNn3T12veSK6DgqwU4Hdn7QHcDDRag7
1BVxNn3T12veSK6DgqwU4Hdn7QHcDDRag7
You guys really need to make this funding campaign much clearer. I love this project, it has such a lot of potential, but I can't donate knowing that:
- You've structured the funding rounds in a way that could make the decision to donate regrettable
- You have at least 2 funding streams, and no explanation of how these two are accounted for in respect of each other
This would matter less if you were not asking for so much money. Surely it's better to try to encourage as many bold donations as possible?
February 03, 2015, 05:28:55 AM
I couldn't get Lighthouse running on Windows. I installed it on Mac, downloaded the BitSquare project file, did a donation. It was there yesterday, but now I don't see it anymore..?
I'm not sure what happened there. Could you please open an issue at the Lighthouse github: https://github.com/vinumeris/lighthouse/issues
Alternatively, you could donate to the address on our 'contribute' page: https://bitsquare.io/contribute/ . We might use donations from there to fill-up Lighthouse donations:
33KyHsPZcCqNVNaqK3jbx9aeubGaXgLgzt
Anyway, thanks for considering a donation.
February 03, 2015, 04:47:32 AM
The waiting trader sends a request to the arbitrator with the contract attached and a description
of the problem.
The arbitrator has to find a fair solution and per contract terms will contact both traders and
perform any other contractually pre-determined due diligence.
But what would happen if I receive and hear nothing after I wired my $2500? Not from the seller, not from the arbitrator, nothing?of the problem.
The arbitrator has to find a fair solution and per contract terms will contact both traders and
perform any other contractually pre-determined due diligence.
I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. This situation is very unlikely to happen. Bitsquare lowers the incentive for scammers as much as possible by a set of measures.
The arbitrator is a more or less randomly chosen person to solve cases where one trade participant is cheating. If you're not happy with the decision of the arbitrator (unlikely case of collusion between the arbitrator and the scammer) you can call another arbitrator. The case will be looked into and in case of collusion, arbitrator rights plus arbitrator security deposits (which is at least two times the trade volume) will be taken from the colluding arbitrator.
Again, all of this is very unlikely to happen because there are no real incentives for cheaters to do so.
February 03, 2015, 04:01:14 AM
The waiting trader sends a request to the arbitrator with the contract attached and a description
of the problem.
The arbitrator has to find a fair solution and per contract terms will contact both traders and
perform any other contractually pre-determined due diligence.
But what would happen if I receive and hear nothing after I wired my $2500? Not from the seller, not from the arbitrator, nothing?of the problem.
The arbitrator has to find a fair solution and per contract terms will contact both traders and
perform any other contractually pre-determined due diligence.
February 03, 2015, 03:57:49 AM
I couldn't get Lighthouse running on Windows. I installed it on Mac, downloaded the BitSquare project file, did a donation. It was there yesterday, but now I don't see it anymore..?
February 02, 2015, 08:11:11 AM
I think he just explained it can't do that. It's for very small transactions. I'm not sure it's fair to call it an exchange but I do see an audience for it.
I'd say $2500 fits the "small transactions" label? Or at least it should, when we're discussing P2P Bitcoin trading. From th PDF, page 11:
Quote
Dispute
There will be a warning notifications to both traders at the middle of the timeout period if the
trade has not completed. As soon the timeout is reached the waiting trader who has not
received their payment can contact the arbitrator.
The waiting trader sends a request to the arbitrator with the contract attached and a description
of the problem.
The arbitrator has to find a fair solution and per contract terms will contact both traders and
perform any other contractually pre-determined due diligence.
After the arbitrator has decided in favor of one trader he will contact the winning party to sign a
new payout transaction where he takes the security deposit from the losing party as his dispute
payment and the bitcoin payment and security deposit will go to the winning party.
The winning party will have no costs. The losing party will lose his security deposit.
In cases where the problem was caused by external circumstances (e.g. bank has blocked the
transfer, etc.), the arbitrator will take half of each security deposits as his payment and refund
the rest back to the traders.
More details about the arbitration system can be found in the “Arbitration System” document.
There will be a warning notifications to both traders at the middle of the timeout period if the
trade has not completed. As soon the timeout is reached the waiting trader who has not
received their payment can contact the arbitrator.
The waiting trader sends a request to the arbitrator with the contract attached and a description
of the problem.
The arbitrator has to find a fair solution and per contract terms will contact both traders and
perform any other contractually pre-determined due diligence.
After the arbitrator has decided in favor of one trader he will contact the winning party to sign a
new payout transaction where he takes the security deposit from the losing party as his dispute
payment and the bitcoin payment and security deposit will go to the winning party.
The winning party will have no costs. The losing party will lose his security deposit.
In cases where the problem was caused by external circumstances (e.g. bank has blocked the
transfer, etc.), the arbitrator will take half of each security deposits as his payment and refund
the rest back to the traders.
More details about the arbitration system can be found in the “Arbitration System” document.
https://bitsquare.io/bitsquare.pdf
https://bitsquare.io/arbitration_system.pdf
Thanks!
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