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Topic: Decrits Proposal: Solution for an unbound, energy-related, stable value currency - page 2. (Read 8182 times)

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
:-) Of course I can back it up with multiples of hashing power. My client will calculate how many spots in the queue I should take and take the optimum amount.

Exactly.

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=> if it is not related to IP [number of network members] the reward system becomes reduced to the cost of energy [+ hardware depreciation] as value.

Plus (computer) time, plus a profit margin. Though those margins will probably be diminished because of the coin multiplier. However, this means people mint when the value of currency is too high--the intended design. This is a good thing for something that tries to achieve a stable value, don't you think?
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
There is no benefit for joining the queue multiple times unless you can back it up with multiples of hashing power.

:-) Of course I can back it up with multiples of hashing power. My client will calculate how many spots in the queue I should take and take the optimum amount.
=> if it is not related to IP [number of network members] the reward system becomes reduced to the cost of energy [+ hardware depreciation] as value.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
=> this can be decentralized with some cheat protection
- You can reward the web pages that displayed the add with 50% of income the network with the rest [all owners of coins]

This could result in never-ending inflation that doesn't care about price levels. It would be easy to spam these proofs to yourself and flood the network or what have you. It is not very elegant, unfortunately.

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- You can limit the reward for each web page ip so that the advertiser can not cheat by crediting everything to his web page ...

Using external information puts the integrity of the system at risk. I don't want to go off on this tangent, so I'll just leave it as "not a good idea." Sorry. Kiss

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If You add rewards for just being part of the network You have an additional problem of fake members [multiple ips] ... the same problem that I would have with proving views / clicks :-)

I see now that you misunderstood the point that markm was making. There is no added reward for using multiple IPs. As I told him, IP addresses don't even come into the equation with creating new money. There is no benefit for joining the queue multiple times unless you can back it up with multiples of hashing power. It is in fact risky because you could see zero return on your 0.2 coin investment if you take too long to provide proofs of work.
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
Alternatively You could generate blocks by actually displaying the content if You can proof views.
But you can't. Part of the smart property of bitcoin's coin creation is that it is very hard to produce and very easy to verify. How can anyone prove views? You are relying on someone to say "yeah there were views." There is no decentralized, easy to verify proof.

The person who paid can be trusted because he paid :-)

1. the advertiser pays 50btc to display 10000 ads
2. he puts code on the displaying web pages that gives him confirmation where (ip) the add was clicked and who (ip) clicked
3. he sends the confirmations back to the network

=> this can be decentralized with some cheat protection
- You can reward the web pages that displayed the add with 50% of income the network with the rest [all owners of coins]
- You can limit the reward for each web page ip so that the advertiser can not cheat by crediting everything to his web page ...

The generation of a currency will be just a byproduct of this business. You can then use the existing hashing system without any block reward just by paying with transaction fees for hashers.

If Your proof of value is based on computation it will be related to computing costs [energy + depreciation of equipment]. If You add rewards for just being part of the network You have an additional problem of fake members [multiple ips] ... the same problem that I would have with proving views / clicks :-)
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Alternatively You could generate blocks by actually displaying the content if You can proof views.

But you can't. Part of the smart property of bitcoin's coin creation is that it is very hard to produce and very easy to verify. How can anyone prove views? You are relying on someone to say "yeah there were views." There is no decentralized, easy to verify proof.

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If You define what is the value in decrits it will be easier to comprehend.

There are a hundred ways to realize the value of a cryptocurrency. Significantly reduced transaction costs; no government or central bank manipulation; difficult to trace transactions; ease of international trade; and so on. As with everything of value, it is given value by those that ascribe value to it. I believe the ability to democratically* and organically control the currency's creation is of significant value. Thus democratic credits. Tongue Bitcoin proponents may not agree.

* social equality, not a reference to the voting system
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
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Now You have a crazy addition ... after some period You get half of the reward ... A confusing, surprising and definitely not necessary addition [but it helps getting early adopters].
I'm not sure what you mean here or to which part you are referring.
BTC reward halving ("You"=BTC).
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You could monetize traffic on web pages. => You proof traffic and get rewarded in "BTC-traffic". The network can than take advantage of this and sell the space you have buy providing it to advertisers that have to burn (destroy) "BTC-traffic" coins to display adds there.
This is not a decentralized solution.

Why not :-) a client checks if the advertisement space is really available and confirms the block. Any client can do this.
You then buy advertisement space anywhere with a client by providing the content and destroying BTC.

Alternatively You could generate blocks by actually displaying the content if You can proof views.

anyway ... this was just an alternative (not well crafted idea of an) option to proof value. You can consider other solutions of values that can be proven to a software program. If You define what is the value in decrits it will be easier to comprehend.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
but what improvement do You want to achieve?

The ability to create and unbounded amount of currency without causing general price inflation (or slightly more accurately without any loss of real value due to possible price inflation caused by currency creation).

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"BTC is rewarded for solving a mathematical equation that takes substantial amount of computing power to produce". That's it. This explains everything (even if it is not 100% correct).

It also explains everything in the same sense ("not really explained" Wink) in Decrits. There is obviously a lot more going on under the hood in both situations.

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Now You have a crazy addition ... after some period You get half of the reward ... A confusing, surprising and definitely not necessary addition [but it helps getting early adopters].

I'm not sure what you mean here or to which part you are referring.

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You must be able to present the money generation process in such a short way.

I must also be able to give solid logic and thorough explanations to the people here who will be very critical of anything that isn't directly related to the mostly proven idea of bitcoin's currency creation. This proposal is not here to attract early adopters, it is here to attract scrutiny and discussion and potential for new and better ideas. I will work on dumbing the ideas down to a digestible fashion when people can download and run the software.

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You could monetize traffic on web pages. => You proof traffic and get rewarded in "BTC-traffic". The network can than take advantage of this and sell the space you have buy providing it to advertisers that have to burn (destroy) "BTC-traffic" coins to display adds there.

This is not a decentralized solution.
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
Etlase2, I agree with markm
Seems like one could get a bunch of IP addresses and share your hashing power out over them to appear to be many individual users, maybe even an entire mining-group of forty users for example?
You offer a very complicated production process to achieve improvement over BTC generation, but what improvement do You want to achieve? If You give additional befits to miners just for being a miner, then why not just give a coin [or coin fraction] to every miner and that's it. Whatever You propose it must be simple to comprehend. You have only a minute to attract an adopter. You can explain BTC generation in one sentence [with few additional sentences that go into details if this is required].

"BTC is rewarded for solving a mathematical equation that takes substantial amount of computing power to produce". That's it. This explains everything (even if it is not 100% correct).

Now You have a crazy addition ... after some period You get half of the reward ... A confusing, surprising and definitely not necessary addition [but it helps getting early adopters].
You must be able to present the money generation process in such a short way.

BTC uses a solution of a hashing problem to proof value (work) only because the program can not read and validate an electricity bill and convert it into BTC. There was no other simple way to proof value to a computer program so electricity providers profit most from the BTC community :-) There are other ways to proof value. You could monetize traffic on web pages. => You proof traffic and get rewarded in "BTC-traffic". The network can than take advantage of this and sell the space you have buy providing it to advertisers that have to burn (destroy) "BTC-traffic" coins to display adds there. After 1-2 years You can compete with google and the network would be worth more than google :-) but this is just another example to proof value.

I think You want to award coins to members just for being a member and doings something small. There must be simpler ways to do the awarding so that it can be explained in 1-2 sentences.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Is Decrits meant to be a decentralized solution?

Absolutely. Though I would not be surprised to hear an argument that money = power is more centralized than mining pools and hashing power.

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How is the coin minting queue managed? E.g. you say "Once enough minters have joined the queue..."  :  what if there is disagreement about which miners are in the queue or if there are "enough"?

Well the "enough" question is simple because that is part of the protocol. As far as disagreeing, whatever the shareholder says for each transaction block goes. You can think of it like geistgeld if you are familiar where I believe the block target time was around 10 seconds, but there is no competition for creating transaction blocks--only 1 shareholder is allowed to create a block for each specific 10 second window and that's it. I haven't gone much into what happens if a shareholder misses their transaction block because that's a bit hand-wavy at this point.

Like, for example, a node sees blocks 100, 101, then 103 and it enters some kind of safe mode because 102 is missing and transactions can't be guaranteed bad-spend proof (spending more than available in the account balance) until the missing block is resolved (how this will work exactly is the hand-wavy part). It won't particularly affect minters because they don't care about transaction security. And they could start minting at any time or do whatever they want, but a hash of a relatively current transaction block will be part of the data that needs to be hashed, so if they come up with a solution before there are enough minters in the queue, the solution will be invalid and the effort wasted.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 2301
Chief Scientist
Is Decrits meant to be a decentralized solution?

How is the coin minting queue managed? E.g. you say "Once enough minters have joined the queue..."  :  what if there is disagreement about which miners are in the queue or if there are "enough"?
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
IP addresses are not needed or used for minting under the Decrits proposal. I dropped the "supplynet group" concept of Encoin that worked similarly to p2pool because I felt it would be an avenue for a denial of service attack against creating new money. Part of that idea reduced the effectiveness of things like ASICs because the payouts would not be proportional to hashing power (see: http://justinbporter.com/encoin/doku.php?id=mint_blocks). However, it is possible that idea could be re-discussed down the road as it is less data-intensive than the Decrits proposal which is nice (but requires direct communication between group peers, which is not so elegant), but I think in general the 10x coin multiplier obviates the need for non-proportional payouts. Plus it feels like socialism.

Anyways, there is nothing preventing an ASIC from presenting itself as many consumer grade machines. I even mentioned in the OP that one user could join the queue multiple times, but it is risky because they may be selected more than once at the same time and they may lose their initial solution investments if they cannot find solutions within the allotted time frame. Obviously this is not very risky for an ASIC.

There are two avenues for using an ASIC on the network:

1) Playing nice and blending in with an individual queue hash rate along the lines with the rest of the network. Depending on the size and circumstances of the network, this will only be effective as long as it is profitable for the community at large to mine because of the large initial mint block start up cost. One of the risks that I failed to mention in the money creation section was that queued solutions will only be valid for so long and will eventually expire unless a mint block begins within a certain time frame. So if they play nice and whatever, they will make a much better profit than everyone else, but because of the 10x coin multiplier and restrictions on timing and such, the profit is very unlikely to be significant compared to the unsunk costs of purchasing and/or developing the ASIC. Once supply and demand meet, everyone else will drop out and the ASIC will not have enough power to maintain the entire minting process on its own.

Unless the ASIC is an order of magnitude more powerful, which has apparently been proved-in-concept by BFL with a 1TH/s miner. If the network's GDP is large and healthy, even a miner with an order of magnitude more power should still pale in comparison to the amount of work needed to begin a mint block. If the network is small, with the 10x coin multiplier and such it is unlikely to ever see a return on investment, so that brings me to...

2) the possibility that it could be used as an attack on the network to intentionally increase the difficulty, bring up the cost of creating coins and cut out everyone else from being able mine (though probably including itself). I came up with a solution for this though that I recently added to my consciousness stream notes:

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ASIC etc. protection: Provide a minimum amount of time to join the mint queue (based on the 10% fee and typical time to create coins). This way even if an ASIC shows up and gets the mint queue full to start a new block immediately, there will be a waiting period where even more can join and thus thwart an insane currency production or increased difficulty by the ASIC user(s) being the only ones in the queue when production begins. I guess this timer will start when the first minter is queued. This does leave the possibility of an ASIC miner just putting one in the queue, waiting for the timer to expire, then mass producing minters. So a slightly more subtle method is required. (Either way, they will only be able to get away with it for one block, after that everyone can get a warning that someone is fucking with the difficulty and join up with the next block to keep things in check by being a big portion of the initial minters.)

Additionally, ASICs are stupid machines. There are tens or hundreds of ways that the hashing algorithm could be slightly modified to render all ASIC designs moot while causing only a slight hiccup to GPU mining. Because of the voting protocol, this could happen transparently and publicly, and the fact that this option exists may simply deter anyone from even trying. I am also thinking of doing a three-way algorithm between SHA2, SHA3, and scrypt, XORed together or something. (this has the additional bonus of completely nullifying any future vulnerability in one of the algorithms.) With the addition of scrypt, from what I understand this will significantly increase the cost of producing ASICs as they will require onboard memory or will have severe hashing penalties.

PS - the groups of forty will be determined at random
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
How do you prevent a super-machine (ASIC, whatever, something extra-powerful) from presenting itself to the network as a whole bunch of normal consumer grade machines in appearance?

Seems like one could get a bunch of IP addresses and share your hashing power out over them to appear to be many individual users, maybe even an entire mining-group of forty users for example?

-MarkM-
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
It is not pegged to the cost of energy, more like derived from it as well as hardware costs and time costs. I hesitated to even bring it up again because it was non-stop in the encoin threads about how this wasn't possible, "you can't force the market", blah blah. But it's important to get a sense of how the value of a coin could be derived. With encoin I came up with a tongue-in-cheek phrase that "1 enc costs about 1 enc to produce." Meaning that, long-term, whatever the coin is worth is about what it will cost you to make one.

This can vary when demand outstrips supply in the case of a network expansion, or supply outstrips demand in the case of panic selling or loss of confidence or what have you. But when demand outstrips supply, as the currency production is unbounded, the people can quickly create new currency to return it to the equilibrium level. If supply outstrips demand, an opportunity for arbitrage arises. So, long term, the price should simply oscillate around a common cost to produce.

But this does not directly take into account the many factors that go into this such as the general price of world electricity changing and efficiency gains in hardware, but that is where the ingenuity of the encoin and decrits proposals come in. This was an important, though slightly flawed, step to bringing the possibility of a stable value currency to reality based only on competition between miners.

Code:
The current difficulty for creating coins is a value of 100 which causes the average coin to be produced in 50 coin-hours.

 The Network originally had 100% of computers producing coins using 150W of electricity to produce a coin in 50 coin-hours, 50 * 150W or 7.5kWh per coin.

 50% of the computers producing coins now use 125W of electricity while 50% continue to use 150W, while both produce coins at the same rate.

...

 When the block award returns to 6 coins, the difficulty will be 108.5, or 54.25 coin-hours to make the same coin as before. 54.25 * 137.5W ~ 7.5kWh.

But it was not ideal for several reasons that do not apply to Decrits and I don't want to go off on that tangent.


SO, I will go point by point through the money creation section to explain why everything is the way I proposed it.

  • Money creation starts with a big block of coins available to be minted based on the amount transaction fees over the last year (with a large minimum amount), divided by 12 to get a base line.
This is so that network GDP plays a factor in how difficult it is to begin a new mint block and how much must be mined before the coins are awarded. Because transaction fees are a percentage, this will scale smoothly as the network activity increases.

  • To begin minting coins, minters must put their name into the coin minting queue which must include a proof of work equal to 10% of the standard coin award's value (e.g. if each user is assigned to mint 2 coins, he must give a solution equal to 0.2 coins to join the queue).
This reduces spam to join the mint queue, gives proof that you are capable of finding solutions, gives proof to the network that a lot of hashing power is ready to create coins, and involves a slight risk. It is possible, though unlikely, that you may never get to mint coins for this block. (Bought a fancy ASIC? whoops!)

  • Once enough minters have joined the queue, minting can begin (this formula will be based on the total number of coins available to be minted for this block).
This will likely be when there are enough minters in queue to be assigned 20% of the total coins in the block.

  • When minting begins, the cost of the solution to join the queue will drop to 7.5%, and after a significant portion of the coins have been mined (25% or so), the cost to join will drop to 5%.
This adds to the risk of being among the first to join the queue. It also makes less powerful systems able to join more easily and slow down the production of hyper-efficient minters.

  • When the block begins, only 50% of the queued users will be selected to create coins.
Adds to the risk. The other 50% essentially lost the a battle of luck because now everyone can join for 7.5% instead of 10%.

  • While each minter creates coins individually, they are assigned together with a group of 39 other minters with which they compete. The first 10 users in each group will receive a slight bonus to their award,
The bonus is to encourage increasing the difficulty when it makes sense. If your rig is very efficient, reap the rewards of running at a mh/s that is 10% greater than the network average or so.

  • and once the 10th solution is given, all 10 users will be assigned to new groups to create more coins.
This mitigates risk to the network. You can buy that fancy 1GH/s ASIC, but if you only get ten coins from each block, it is so insanely ridiculously not worth it. In the mean time you spend a lot of time waiting around doing nothing.

  • This process continues for each set of 10 except that the 3rd and the 4th set of 10 are only added back to the queue and not immediately given a new group.
Again encourages increasing the difficulty via competition when it makes sense.

  • Go really slow (over 3 standard deviations or whatever testing seems fair) and you will be booted out of the queue and lose your 0.2 coin investment.
This means an investment like FPGA will have to be large to keep up with the "average" system of GPUs. 1 FPGA won't be enough to keep up, you'll need 10, for example. High startup, zero other utility, encourages using standard PCs and status quo hardware and only upgrading when it is for standard computer upgrading reasons. This reduces the hardware tax on the economy significantly.

  • Coins will not be deposited into the minting accounts until after the entire block of coins has been minted and they will be awarded over time based on the days that the coins were mined
Mitigates risk to the network.

  • The difficulty will be adjusted after each block and given a weighted adjustment based on the last 10(?) difficulty changes.
Mitigates risk by making it very difficult to maliciously increase the difficulty. After 1 mint block of much higher than normal difficulty, everyone will be aware that the difficulty is being manipulated and can join the next queue to de-manipulate it before permanent damage is done. This is because of the next sentence: "Difficulty only goes up, never down."

  • E.g. a 10% increase in difficulty means that a 2.0 coin award would be reduced to about 1.818 coins (100/110% * 2.0)
Mitigates risk, immediately prices in some portion of new hardware efficiency gains, meaning it is less profitable to upgrade hardware for the sole purpose of being better at creating money--reducing/removing the hardware tax again. It is worth discussing whether or not the coin multipliers in the next two sections are reduced by the same amount, meet in the middle, or equal the original coin awards (I like meet in the middle).

  • After the bootstrapping period is over, by default each coin block will be multiplied by 5x to all existing accounts
Mitigates risk in holding currency. Even if new hardware comes out that is 500% more efficient and super cheap etc etc but has the same MH/s output as GPUs, existing holders of currency do not have to run out and buy this hardware just to compensate for the reducing value of their holdings. A new value of the currency will be established (stable long term but chaotic because of unforeseen present conditions), but no one will lose actual value because the more new currency created, the more existing currency is rewarded. It is a balance and it is another hardware tax--you don't get the new coin pie all to yourself. Additionally, it is possible to mitigate the value change of the currency by forcing an increased difficulty after so many mint blocks are created in a row with low difficulty increases and not much prior increase in transaction activity. If, for example, coins were worth about $3 and the new hardware can produce them for $1, rather than tripling everyone's coins over time until a new level was reached, the difficulty could be forced upwards so that maybe it only drops to $2.50 and everyone only gets a 20% increase in coins or so. It would be a form of disinflation I suppose. Something worth discussing, but it does have the potential to be abused. This scenario is also pretty unlikely.

Either way, while this would temporarily upset the economy, once it is accounted for it won't have any lasting effects, and a situation like this should be quite rare.

  • and by 5x as a lottery to transactions
Encourages trade, gets more money in circulation when demand is high

  • What this does is reduce the actual amount of energy spent in creating new money so that the people using the money profit instead of the electric company.
This is significant. Instead of it costing X energy and hardware to create Y amount of currency, it costs X/10 to create the same value in Y currency. This allows for a very quick, very cheap expansion of the money supply to coincide with an expansion in demand for money. It seriously reduces the energy and hardware tax on the network.


I can't type anymore at the moment. I said good day!
legendary
Activity: 1205
Merit: 1010
Pegging currency value to energy cost sounds nice on the surface, but if you are losing value against Bitcoin capital would like to flow to Bitcoin. Assuming the benefit would be that merchants don't need to reprice products daily but market has been developing solutions to this by having computers automatically adjust price based on exchange rate, so the advantage there would be rather limited.

Not to mention properly pegging value is a daunting task without some form of centralization, demonstrated by the attempt of solidcoin. It's likely going to end up still with fairly volatile exchange rate.
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
:-) you have many options to define stability:
= average of other major currencies [they have inflation but this would be quite a success to achieve this]
= gold [as a reference ... not a good choice of course]
= value of 1h of work of a person in USA ? [you don't have the hated inflation then :-)]

quoting myself :-) actually cost of energy is a relatively good choice. the currency would be deflationary [would help to acquire early adopters] but would not be as extremely deflationary as BTC. But it would have to be really related to energy with no cheating options [ASICs :-)].
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
BUT IT'S SELF-EVIDENT! Tongue I think I will make a separate section on how I believe it will work.

:-) you have many options to define stability:
= average of other major currencies [they have inflation but this would be quite a success to achieve this]
= gold [as a reference ... not a good choice of course]
= value of 1h of work of a person in USA ? [you don't have the hated inflation then :-)]

... this is absolutely not trivial.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
=> ignore all my points :-)

How about I just ignore this one? Grin

•   Decrits will work to keep a relatively stable value over time by having an unbounded coin production that is related to the time, hardware, and energy costs required to produce new currency.
- btc is "related to the time, hardware, and energy costs required to produce new currency" (miners stop mining if the value is too low)
- it suggests fixing the value of decrits to costs of energy etc. but You don't want to do this.

Well I can write a book for an abstract or I can try to keep it abstract. I suppose the key difference between it and bitcoin is the word "unbounded." There is a reason why I created a wiki for encoin, there is too much information to put into a single post, and a wiki is much more easy and natural to navigate for people looking for specific information. Unfortunately I just don't have time to do that again at the moment.

•   During periods of instability due to market expansion or technological leaps, Decrits will create new currency freely based on what is being minted for cost and distribute it to existing account holders and those who transact on the network to quickly bring back stability. This has the beneficial side effect of giving profits to the people that use the currency rather than wasting it on hardware manufacturers and electric companies.
- you scare people by forseeing instability ... but you don't really expect instability.
- you want to fight instability with giving away decrits for free ... this is at least confusing

:sigh:

•   Decrits will use a proof-of-share system for network security entirely in lieu of proof-of-work. No energy is required to secure the network other than transaction verification. Proof-of-work is only used to create new currency. Transaction fees are paid to shareholders.
- no proof-of-work but in the last sentence you use proof-of-work
- here you say "no relation to energy"

Proof of work is not required for network security, it is still required to make coins. I think that was clear enough. In a steady state, no energy is required to secure the network from attack, whereas bitcoin requires 51% of the computing power in the universe.

•   Decrits will ensure that transactions are typically secure from double- or bad-spends within seconds.
- how ? need 3 words explanation

This one I can work on.

•   Decrits will use an account ledger rather than a transaction ledger for keeping track of balances. This will result in a standard transaction being about one-third the size of the smallest common Bitcoin transaction, and 5-10x+ less than Bitcoin transactions with many inputs. It also means that the entire history of the network need not be stored or pruned as it is already in a compact format.
- you probably need to keep a short transaction history in the client
- you probably need some nodes to keep the history for accounting / security / analysis reasons

These are details that are beyond the scope of the OP let alone the abstract. I think I mentioned at the bottom in the tech details that the transaction log would be kept for 90 days or so. Important information such as voting records and shareholder activity history would likely be kept for 10 years as that is not very data heavy.

•   Decrits will ensure direct developer intervention is not required to adapt the currency to future, unforeseen events or bugs. This is accomplished via an in-network voting system.
- developers will not fix bugs ? who will ?

I should probably just leave this out of the abstract.

•   Decrits will reward early adopters by giving away multiples of minted currency, such as 5x or 10x what would normally be minted. Early adopters will also be in the position to benefit for some time off of early purchase of shares as described in the Security section. While the project is in development, coins may be pre-awarded to people who make large and small contributions to its development.
- you need to attract early adopters so you probably must avoid words like "may be". the benefits must be clear and simple.

I haven't decided at all on how this should work, and this boils down to the "needs to be publicly discussed" section after the abstract.

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=> i did not find a clear answer how you introduce stability. I would now scan the rest for the text to find a paragraph on that ... you have the word in the title. In fact the offer of stability is extremely complected to achieve :-) You have to define how you understand stability.

BUT IT'S SELF-EVIDENT! Tongue I think I will make a separate section on how I believe it will work.
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
Shit :-) I spend half an hour to write a post and then it just disappeared :-) I will try to do it again but shorter (if it happens again I will reply with 6 posts instead of one)

The text with the abstract is much better than without it.

=> ignore all my points :-) You need comments from many more people to optimize the proposal

- who is your target ? probably early adopters. write something that catches their attention.
- I am not your primary target. I am interested in a secure, more theft-protected currency, not in making profits with it, so I see the proposal from a different angel. But you can use me as an example of a reader.

for me the title could be just "solution for stable crypto-currency" , it is shorter and tells me what i want to find.

•   Decrits will work to keep a relatively stable value over time by having an unbounded coin production that is related to the time, hardware, and energy costs required to produce new currency.
- btc is "related to the time, hardware, and energy costs required to produce new currency" (miners stop mining if the value is too low)
- it suggests fixing the value of decrits to costs of energy etc. but You don't want to do this.
•   During periods of instability due to market expansion or technological leaps, Decrits will create new currency freely based on what is being minted for cost and distribute it to existing account holders and those who transact on the network to quickly bring back stability. This has the beneficial side effect of giving profits to the people that use the currency rather than wasting it on hardware manufacturers and electric companies.
- you scare people by forseeing instability ... but you don't really expect instability.
- you want to fight instability with giving away decrits for free ... this is at least confusing
•   Decrits will use a proof-of-share system for network security entirely in lieu of proof-of-work. No energy is required to secure the network other than transaction verification. Proof-of-work is only used to create new currency. Transaction fees are paid to shareholders.
- no proof-of-work but in the last sentence you use proof-of-work
- here you say "no relation to energy"
•   Decrits will ensure that transactions are typically secure from double- or bad-spends within seconds.
- how ? need 3 words explanation
•   Decrits will use an account ledger rather than a transaction ledger for keeping track of balances. This will result in a standard transaction being about one-third the size of the smallest common Bitcoin transaction, and 5-10x+ less than Bitcoin transactions with many inputs. It also means that the entire history of the network need not be stored or pruned as it is already in a compact format.
- you probably need to keep a short transaction history in the client
- you probably need some nodes to keep the history for accounting / security / analysis reasons
... you did not mention that this solves a problem : 1) client on mobile devices 2) installing the client faster than in 2 days
•   Decrits will ensure direct developer intervention is not required to adapt the currency to future, unforeseen events or bugs. This is accomplished via an in-network voting system.
- developers will not fix bugs ? who will ?
•   Decrits will reward early adopters by giving away multiples of minted currency, such as 5x or 10x what would normally be minted. Early adopters will also be in the position to benefit for some time off of early purchase of shares as described in the Security section. While the project is in development, coins may be pre-awarded to people who make large and small contributions to its development.
- you need to attract early adopters so you probably must avoid words like "may be". the benefits must be clear and simple.
•   Decrits will incentivize being a transmitting node for the network by paying a small portion of the network transaction fees for the service.
- you probably need a section that tells early adopters what are the benefits, a section like this is not easy to locate

=> i did not find a clear answer how you introduce stability. I would now scan the rest for the text to find a paragraph on that ... you have the word in the title. In fact the offer of stability is extremely complected to achieve :-) You have to define how you understand stability.

the proposal has a target. Try to think like the person that you want to attract and make it easy for him to find answers.

1) what are the advantages over btc
- stability (how)
- less energy consumption (how)
- less disk space (... this you have)
- other benefits?
2) what are the benefits for adopters
- i would make the benefits based on distribution of transactions fees but this maybe not sufficient to start the currency
... the benefits are a crucial part of your 'business plan' , this requires probably an additional post :-)
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
I have seen similar ideas posted by you for a long time now but I do not think I have yet seen any specification of it precise enough to permit actually coding it. Is there an implementation-specifics details document yet or is this all just pie in the sky handwaving?

-MarkM-

It is an iterative process. Especially since when I began ideating this project I had only a small understanding of cryptography and what would be feasible for a p2p protocol. Some of the original ideas look absolutely atrocious to me now. But I am extremely confident at this point that the guts of everything I've proposed is feasible and there are numerous blueprints in my head. I would not have wanted to begin coding until I felt that way. Some things may eventually not work exactly as described, but that will come out in testing, and something that doesn't work as intended is just an opportunity to make it work better than intended, imo.

I post this stuff here though so people can give me new ideas or better ideas or whatever though. Red was insanely, extremely helpful in that regard. It's a shame he didn't stick around.

When will I start coding some portions? Soon™
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
I have seen similar ideas posted by you for a long time now but I do not think I have yet seen any specification of it precise enough to permit actually coding it. Is there an implementation-specifics details document yet or is this all just pie in the sky handwaving?

-MarkM-
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