Topic: Deflatory nature of Bitcoin - the problem and a possible solution - page 4. (Read 6380 times)

Oh puhleassse, spare us.   Go build your own effing coin and prove to us it's better.  

What justice?  According to you?  Every single person who owns bitcoins CHOSE to use bitcoins. It's the ultimate democratic currency.  

As a Greek, you should have some idea about that instead of trying to ram your ideas down our throats.

Please don't mix the issues here:
The rolling blockchain achieves 2 things
1: Justice (and don't naysay me period)
2: Discourages hoarding, will increase utility hence survivability
3: Act as recycling mechanism or a rolling reboot of the economy

A further improvement by decoupling invalidation and creation rates can provide
1: Control over inflating/deflating the economy the beauty here is that every miner can at this point play the role of a central banker by a tiny bit
 

No. This is not correct.  Btc rewards early miners who spend their btcs when btcs reach a level that makes them feel wealthy. Over time, Btc distribution will become fairer. Anyway, Btc market is only $10 B for goodness sakes!

Credit money increases the gap between rich and poor because fiat is being devalued via asset price inflation.  This is the real problem causing inequality and the loss of social cohesion.

As mentioned before, take the rolling blockchain idea and build your own coin and see how many people use your inflationary coin. Not many will I suspect.

Don't try to fix what ain't broke.

now what did I do that you feed the Troll inside me?

look up here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4348065

Sorry but this is not an issue that market can "decide". Currency market is not like stock market's beauty contest, it follows the gresham's law so the ecosystem will be strongly inflationary given the infinite supply of "bad coins". Very difficult to guess what all this will eventually bring, but not deflation as it would be in a only bitcoin environment. Thaanaos, I'm interested in your rolling model, probably similar to my present thoughts. Could you expose some details? I'm a newbie so i'm just starting to think about it, having recently discarded the awful (to me, as an european) deflationary hypotesis.

EXACTLY THIS. Interestingly enough, without the power of a central regulatory agency, the market can and will decide exactly how inflationary or deflationary it wants its cryptocurrency ecosystem to be. Just as I said, oh, 50 posts back before we entered this flagellation.

Also, I'm about two pixels from ignoring thaaanos, which is something I *rarely* do.

Most cryptocurrencies that I know reward early miners disproportionaly, that is one problem independent of deflation or, and promote aristocracy which can cause serious political problems, which is why I propose a "Rolling" Blockchain

Deflation, or Inflation can be induced this way now by stretching or shrinking the Valid Blockchain Window. Maybe Invalidation threshold can be decided by a de'facto concessus between the Independent Private Invalidation Threshold that miners choose.

but no one noticed that litecoin provides millions extracoins to the economy? how can you really belive that cryptocurrencies as a whole colud turn out to be actually deflationary? you'd better start thinking about it: what if litecoin succeds?

Well then listen to your personal hero before you usher the world into a new Feudal age. You think deflation is moving forward? there is a perfectly good reason deflative economies don't exist: evolution

We certainly cannot guarantee that a country with a history of enforcing poor decisions and removing choice by mandate, will not ever do so with a completely free system like Bitcoin. Greece can do as it pleases.

Also, re: above, Austrians and Keynesians are both wrong, though Keynesians much more so because they have corrupted and ran with flawed iterations of Keynes' work. Much like Marx would shudder at the attempts to create a collectivist society, Keynes, who was raised in an age where the aristocracy was benevolent and generous, would be appalled.

The reasons come down to a quote by a personal hero, and one which I have spotted recently around the community. It is the truth, and the guiding principle of Bitcoin, whether users know it or not (which is the beauty and the point), and it is the answer to why I can care about politics and not vote, and why I spend all my time considering solutions and none of it lobbying. It was said by an amazing man, and a probable fellow DEC2 mutant:

You can never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change things, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. —R. Buckminster Fuller

Viva la BTC revolution

_{credits Nick74}

Simple, no one forces anyone to use Btc unlike the Euro and other Fiat currencies.  You don't like it, you move it to something else - end of story.

The part about greece is oversimplification but Im not going to argue about it.
As long as I have the option of not beeing forced to trade my assets for bitcoins in the future I will be happy, but can you make that guarantie?

The probs in greece is not due to current euro deflation, it's due to greece borrowing too much in the past and greece can't pay it back because the econ is unproductive.

If you find Btc deflation objectionable use an alt coin with built in inflation. Btc doesn't have the built in problems of the euro yet because there in min debt in Btc.

Btc works because it is the coin that most people prefer right now.

Well English is not my native language so please. When I mean Euro in Greece is appreciating, I mean Euro's value is appreciating against Greece's average household (given that most people own their house). What does euro "appreciating for me" means?

AND fucking halt.

I continue to be amazed by the new sources of confusion. They almost always seem to come down to someone basically choosing to define a standard term, with their own definition. This, in fact, may be Bitcoin's greatest weakness: Assuming the general public is smart enough to understand their own native language.

What you described is the opposite of the Euro appreciating for you: If wages are down and consumer goods are up, your buying power is decreasing. It's appreciating against you. And the Euro is not appreciating, as a whole, when compared to the world, so Greece is mega-screwed.

Land, being a bit like a commodity with extremely low V, and one which subjects its owner to the above, derives a great portion of its value from its location, and the majority economy there. A bit like small alts derive their value from the overall BTC / crypto economy.

Now that we have established the problem is you lacking a dictionary, perhaps we can move on.

Sounds pretty good actually but I doubt it'll get accepted, nor do I think it should be. BTC is fine as it is. Do it with an alt coin if you believe in it.

WTF? Are you out of your friggin mind? The thought alone is disgusting enough.

There seem to people that believe that an appreciating currency is a good Idea
I would like to invite those people to come live and work in Greece, Over the past 4 years Euro is appreciating:
Wages down by 40% Consumer Prices up by 20%, Land value down by 60%. A Paradise.

Now that we have established what the problem, lets propose a solution that will solve many problems at the same time
while the parameters can be tweaked the basic idea is:

A. Block reward is maintained at a constant bonus
B. A rolling invalidation of blocks starting from the genesis block occures

So there is a Block Window of valid transactions. The size of the window determines the total number of Bitcoins in existence.


Now for the window part

C. The rate of invalitations and block creation is unrelated
C. A link between the economy growth/recesion and the block window size is somehow* created


*As I am opposed to create rules that act as forces of nature and rather trust individual and collective human judgement,
I would like to have that parameter not hardcoded but open to negotiation and discussion.

So why not making another coin you may ask?
Because if Bitcoin fails the whole experiment of p2p cryptocurencies will fail and all we will have left with will be Bankster issued virtual currencies

EDIT:
Maybe Invalidation threshold/rate can be decided by a de'facto concessus between the independent private Invalidation threshold/rate that miners choose.