Topic: delete - page 28. (Read 165538 times)

Of course you did. I didn't intend to imply anything about your intended meaning, rather only the possible literal interpretations given the circumstances. Remember my father is an attorney. I suppose I learned it from him.


P.S. what I am trying to say is that I think rpietila contributed the political and organizational situation we have now, but I don't know if he solely responsible. And IMO the current situation is not so huge of a potential for the long-term (but I guess that could change depending what you guys have coming). Perhaps 'destroyed' is too severe. Better to say 'limited potential'. My personal opinion only subject to change depending on what is discovered and changes.

I think he also contributed politically to some design decisions, such as originally being against perpetual debasement.

Reposting because I significantly edited this...




Ahem. The more I think about this, in the interim time while the majority tries to build a consensus about the (now both entirely public) double-spends over some number of blocks depending on the attacker's hashrate, the attacker can introduce a huge quantity of derivative txs thus the opportunities for valid txs to mix any one of those derivative mixed txs increases significantly. It is the autonomy of the mixing that is the qualitative difference between opaque block chains and transparent block chains which also have mixes, because CoinJoin-like mixing can wait for N confirmations.

You can't mitigate this with tx fees paid to the miners, because the attacker is paying himself!

So the only mitigation I can see is to send tx fees to the ether, but the problem is your block rewards decline to 0 in Monero (I know you didn't agree with that, but you were overruled).

And in any case, high tx fees are the antithesis of a currency. Remember Gresham's law, bad (debased) money drives good (non-debased) money out-of-circulation.

True you could unwind some (usually extremely) smallish percent of valid transactions and be compatible with my fix.

The more I think about this, if you are waiting N confirmations to avoid a double-spend attack, then you also covered if your derivative tx gets unwound.

So perhaps I am mistaken that my fix is incompatible with opaque block chains.

However if my fix is also applied to network fragmentationtemporary rented hardware attacks where the number of blocks of the fork could be quite large, i.e. my solution can fix selfish mining and also automatically repair after temporary network fragmentationrented hardware attacks, then perhaps the number N becomes unreasonably large. In that case, that is a disadvantage for opaque block chains because the fanout of affected valid txs could become quite extensive (by your own admission upthread that blacklisting would fanout exponentially).

Edit: afaik Zerocash amplifies the incompatibility because all txs much be unwound.

I'm very sorry you appear not to be enjoying the free for all about Monero on "The Monero Free For All Thread."

Please see the cashier for a refund.

It might be possible to isolate which of the double-spends was seen by the majority by using a PoW consensus (which is basically a simple majority vote).

Then you must assume that any follow on txs to the attacker's double-spend were all his. But the problem is that consensus can't be reached always in one block, because the majority doesn't have 100% of the hashrate.

The attacker can also accept transactions, and spenders create txs autonomously.

I'm calling that a private chain. Obviously we are using different terminology, but let's move on.


If you are deliberately mixing the output of those double spends then you are the attacker. The transactions you create as the attacker will get unwound.

You can't force other people to use your outputs as mixes. Some will, but most won't (but as I said, "some" might be enough for your technique to be incompatible).

Beyond that, you will have to write up your ideas more completely and precisely if you want my input.

smooth,

Don't you understand that due to ring signatures there is never a private chain?

I can create a double-spend on a chain nobody else sees. Then I can mix the output of that double-spend with many txs that mix many as inputs (into the rings) many other outputs from valid txs all over the historical public block chain.

You have no way to prove which of those inputs was the follow on tx.

The attacker can create a multitude of the these txs.

In selfish mining, you don't know if you are on the majority chain or not, so you don't know which of the double-spends was possibly sent by the majority and mixed by them.

It is a fog.

Nice wall of text bro. Go create and bump some more Monero threads please. We can use the exposure.

wow you don't say ?

you know what ? i think i will go out and spend my life savings on Monero after all that theoretical pseudo-technical analysis and proclamations..

nothing says good investment than 2 or 3 guys spending ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT spamming about it NON STOP !

ya got me.. i am thoroughly convinced now and will relinquish my Bitcoin to you Mensa/Monero Shills..
that is what you want after all now isn't it ?

You come here and spout of a bunch of bullshit hoping to sucker in people to cough up their Bitcoin to buy Monero coins..
rather than getting a job.

to newer users here i will explain the scam here.. it's pretty simple

first start a new clone coin then change enough of it so you can get away with calling it a fork.
then try and tack on what ever gimmick is popular such as Anon Features.
Then IPO it or flash mine it and buy into it as hard as you can as fast as you can so you can get in on the ground floor *cheap.
Then phase 2
Spam and nag and harass people about non stop hoping to lure in victims and hopefully groom them
so you can recruit them as Shills to advertise for your Ponzi/Pyramid scheme also *a bonus.
then make sure to groom your victims like a pedophile does to little children feeding them propaganda they can use on others to push the scheme along..
Problem is the END GAME !
The leader(s) on the top of the pyramid scheme are not going to notify the lemmings who bought in all naive and gullible
they will simply be dumped on for a massive loss in money !
The key to this scam to keep it going as long as possible suckering in as many victims as possible.. the scam maintenance.
The longer they can run this "Long-Con" the more people they can lure into the trap and fleece for Bitcoin..

I suggest new users beware and don't be low hanging fruit

Trust me i have seen these guys push scam after scam after scam..
The only thing that changes is the names of their clone coins or their endless forum account names
at the end of the day it's still the same handful of scamming shills hanging around here trying to scam for Bitcoin !
And don't be fooled by account status's here either.. all that means is some guys have been here scamming people for a long time.
and yes beware because scamming is NOT against the rules !

Monero !
go buy some they want your Bitcoin..

That's exactly what I said below, no need for rereading.


Selfish mining is not a private chain. Which of the double-spends do you unwind?