[DELETE ME] 2013 Silver Casascius Coins With PGP Chains - page 2.

nubbins

legendary

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Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

Quote from: Nubbins

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

Sorry for the thread hijack. A couple of things:

-Your "quote" is attributed to "Nubbins", which is neither my forum handle (no capitals), nor does it match the nickname (trailing `) in the provided link.

-Who says that's me on irc? That ` character looks scammy.

-Are you a stalker or did you happen to just have a quip from two years ago bookmarked?

-Why not ask me what I think about it? I'm right here.

FWIW the chain is not broken if the coin is handled by the mail service or couriers because they don't know it's a Casascius coin. If a shipped coin arrives undisturbed (and you didn't stupidly write "Casascius coin" on the package), I'd consider the custody chain intact.

Also FWIW -- and I still stand by my claim that ANACS sucks and only IDIOTS buy coins based on the grade and not the condition of the coin itself -- but since ANACS records video of all coins from the moment they arrive til the moment they leave, I'd still consider the custody chain unbroken. The owner who sent the coin for grading should include particulars in their custody docs: dates, ref numbers, etc.

ANACS sucks. They gave a damaged coin a PERFECT ms70 grade.

ANACS sucks.

nubbins

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1009

Quote from: Blazed on December 21, 2015, 03:45:17 PM

I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic.

My time is worth what it's worth. 1BTC is pretty steep but I'm the only remaining source for one-nub chains.

FWIW I paid smoothie 0.5 BTC per coin for docs on three coins recently -- 1.5 BTC total.

You think 1 BTC is expensive, just wait until you see how much I charge someone who turned down free docs two years ago and wants them now Cool

nubbins

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1009

Quote from: bestcoin_59 on December 21, 2015, 01:13:28 PM

I assume a scammer could easily buy a coin with a chain and then make a fake coin with the same first bits. Since the PGP chain is just a file, it is very easy to duplicate. In that case both coins would look legitimate. If my assumption is correct then the PGP chain is, IMHO, useless.

Someone doesn't understand what they're talking about

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic. I was hoping to get an offer for 1 set with PGP. I am keeping all of the rest for my own personal collection.

1 set:

2013 Casascius Silver Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver Half MS-68

All 3 come with a chain where I am the 2nd owner (all 3 coins came from the same source who bought rolls from Mike). Whoever buys them will get the chain extended to them as part of the trade.

The problem with using ANACS is the fakes could be around for 6+ months before anyone even knows. How would you catch a fake considering we never redeem them?

ducatitalia

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100% Positive EBAY Feedback Since 2001

Quote from: Blazed on December 20, 2015, 07:22:25 PM

Quote from: Hellot on December 20, 2015, 04:16:55 PM

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

If Bitcoin were to ever reach 2-3k in value you better believe China will starting making them.

Just a thought...I would offer that any Casascius coin graded by ANACS before the first documented counterfeits turn up, could be considered just as authentic as any chain-of-custody coin. This approach, along with an extensive global network of authentication processes and experts, is the method in which the traditional sports card collecting industry handles counterfeiting. The challenges associated with counterfeiting go back ages and spans countless industries...and many of those same authentication and verification procedures currently used and trusted with varying degrees of success, can be implemented for Casascius and other digital currency collectibles as well. I'm guessing that the small percentage of chain-of-custody coins in existence won't be the only ones verifiable as authentic regardless of future BTC value or volume of fakes flooding the market.

That said, at this early stage of Casascius collecting, having PGP-signed COC is certainly a nice bonus.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: Blazed on December 20, 2015, 02:21:42 PM

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 11:18:40 AM

Quote from: Blazed on December 20, 2015, 10:39:49 AM

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

Quote from: Blazed on December 19, 2015, 10:30:51 PM

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

Quote from: Nubbins

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.

Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/thoughts-on-the-compromise-of-casascius-coin-holograms-268965

Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/

The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".

Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.

Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.

Here is the example...

-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.

-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc

I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.

The signed PDF scans have pictures of the coins and the holograms were all put on by hand by mike so there are small variances on the placement of where exactly the hologram is from coin to coin. So when you come across that you think could be a fake, you compare the coin you have verses the picture of the coin in the PDF.

What PGP chains do is prove that reputable people owned the coin previously so if you trust each of the owners enough to not knowingly sell a fake coin then you would be additionally confident that the coin is not fake. I am not sure this additional assurance is going to be worth the 1btc per coin that nubbins has announced he is charging for it.

bestcoin_59

member

Activity: 305

Merit: 16

Quote from: Blazed on December 20, 2015, 02:21:42 PM

Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.

Here is the example...

-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.

-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc

I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.

I assume a scammer could easily buy a coin with a chain and then make a fake coin with the same first bits. Since the PGP chain is just a file, it is very easy to duplicate. In that case both coins would look legitimate. If my assumption is correct then the PGP chain is, IMHO, useless.

Jeff.

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: Hellot on December 20, 2015, 04:16:55 PM

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

If Bitcoin were to ever reach 2-3k in value you better believe China will starting making them.

miffman

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1005

PGP ID: 78B7B84D

Quote from: Hellot on December 20, 2015, 04:16:55 PM

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

There are none that imitate it perfectly, but there are some hologram fakes. You can see that they are clearly fake though.

Hellot

hero member

Activity: 679

Merit: 526

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 11:18:40 AM

Quote from: Blazed on December 20, 2015, 10:39:49 AM

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

Quote from: Blazed on December 19, 2015, 10:30:51 PM

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

Quote from: Nubbins

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.

Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/thoughts-on-the-compromise-of-casascius-coin-holograms-268965

Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/

The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".

Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.

Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.

Here is the example...

-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.

-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc

I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.

l8nit3

legendary

Activity: 1007

Merit: 1000

I'd love to see some photos, now are these coins attached to a wallet? or simply a 'show piece'?

astrocity1981

sr. member

Activity: 343

Merit: 254

From The New World

The reason I buy my casascius from bitcoin talk is because I have trust in the members that dealt with Mike before I joined. Ognasty, Blazed, Nubbins, and many others that bought from him. I almost bought coins from Ebay, but I know its full of scammers from China, Nigeria,and other scammer countries. It really depends on what type of buyer you are. I am a collector and love the coins for their sleek design and importance of being the first physical bitcoins. If I trade coins for profit then maybe a PGP chain would be worthwhile.

swagman2

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

Quote from: Blazed on December 20, 2015, 10:39:49 AM

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

Quote from: Blazed on December 19, 2015, 10:30:51 PM

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

Quote from: Nubbins

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.

Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/thoughts-on-the-compromise-of-casascius-coin-holograms-268965

Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/

The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".

Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: Blazed on December 20, 2015, 10:41:58 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on December 20, 2015, 10:36:26 AM

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain.

Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.

In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.

Yes everyone in the chain is very well known...and fun fact: They all make their own coins!

Mike --> smoothie --> you

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: Quickseller on December 20, 2015, 10:36:26 AM

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain.

Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.

In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.

Yes everyone in the chain is very well known...and fun fact: They all make their own coins!

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

Quote from: Blazed on December 19, 2015, 10:30:51 PM

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

Quote from: Nubbins

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: swagman2 on December 20, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain.

Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.

In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.

swagman2

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

Quote from: Blazed on December 19, 2015, 10:30:51 PM

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

Quote from: Nubbins

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

woodson

full member

Activity: 129

Merit: 100

Sounds great. I just purchased a coin from Nubbins. I'll be back online tomorrow afternoon. Thanks Blazed.

Topic: [DELETE ME] 2013 Silver Casascius Coins With PGP Chains - page 2. (Read 1988 times)