Topic: Devastating "Infrastructure" bill in US - contact your representatives - page 2. (Read 688 times)

I really hope this isn't the case. I'd like to think our democracy hasn't devolved this far just yet. There are also better ways to get these provisions through Congress than this, if this was their ultimate end goal. The language of the initial bill is utterly terrible, and pretty much reads like it was written by someone who knows nothing about crypto and thinks it is just the same as buying and selling stocks through a broker. They could have written something much more subtle but achieving the same end goal if that was their underlying desire.

I'm not giving up hope yet. At least on paper, we had 99 out of 100 Senators agreeing to the crypto amendment (although I've explained above how I suspect that wasn't really the case, and others did not object simply because they knew Shelby would). Any Democrat not voting for the bill would have been hung out to dry, regardless of their feelings on the crypto language.

In any case, we'll have to wait and see what happens in the House.

This succinctly sums up what happened:
https://twitter.com/CryptoCobain/status/1424839023055495174
I don't think there is any hope House will change this, since all 50 Dems voted for this, plus 19 Republicans.

All a political charade.  This is all part of their plan to benefit those in power. The political elites will never give up their power by letting the masses gain control through what crypto has the potential to offer - usurping the banks, private transactions, universal currency, escape from rampant fiat inflation, etc.

I certainly expect government to tax everything they can that isn't nailed down - that doesn't mean they should. Why should people pay taxes on income they were already taxed on? Double-taxation. They added 87k new IRS agents that will go towards policing the poor and the middle class, while the elites use Monero and offshore accounts to ensure they never pay a dime in taxes and get even richer. This will also kill off mining and developer jobs in the US, weakening us against countries that allow it. Most people invested in crypto were willing to sacrifice taxation at the exchanges. This bill kills the entire industry in the US.

Interesting point. Well said.

You've ultimately got to start expecting more taxes on cryptocurrency transactions in future. I find it funny that ramping up reporting of cryptocurrency transactions, which every single bank in America has to do thoroughly for their own services, is "interpreted" as a bad thing. The people who benefit most from moving large amounts of money via cryptocurrency are now the richest people in society, who love to use these "grey" areas within financial regulations to hide money. Ultimately it is the poor and middle class who end up paying more than their fair share. I don't agree with it being tied to an infrastructure bill however, that is due to the perverse way laws in America are being made these days and the sheer laziness of politicians forcing masses of unrelated new regulations together in packages in order to bargain for unpopular things - you end up with the most mediocre and generally poor outcomes. The politicians are part of the problem and rarely work for their constituents these days.

Yup. If you trade in a peer-to-peer manner, then you are effectuating a trade and therefore classed as a broker. You must therefore collect the KYC data of the person you are trading with, and if you fail to do so, you are a criminal.

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Looks like Shelby is feeling the pressure now and trying to save face:

https://twitter.com/SenShelby/status/1425142857199980550

Trying to say this is the fault of the Democrats, or anybody else for that matter, is a pathetic and embarrassing lie. This was his fault, and his alone.

To understand how this affects regular people, just think about how it's impossible to use Localbitcoins as a normal US person without being registered as a broker. And how many normies have faced enforcement just for using LBC without the "licence".

I worked with US freelancers, accepting payment in Bitcoin. The only way they could cash out was to use Bitcoin ATMs with upwards of 10% fees. I know there are better options now, but the US simply doesn't like people transacting outside of the system. If such a bill were to pass, everyone would be using Bitcoin at exorbitant tax rates and they'd only be able to "hold" "Bitcoin" on PayPal, Coinbase, etc.

Correct. Since it has now passed the Senate, then our only hope now lies with the House. They could pass an amendment fixing the cryptocurrency provisions, which would then lead to the two bills having to be reconciled with each other, which can be a messy process. Then the final amended bill would go back to both chambers to be voted on again.

It's already passed the Senate. It's over to the House now. We will have to wait and see what amendments they propose and how they will vote.

I suspect there are several Senators who only let the amendments pass because they knew Shelby would obstruct them.

If there's one thing I'm certain of, it is that the government will interpret the wording in whichever way they please for their own benefit.

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Here's the next fight:
https://twitter.com/RepTomEmmer/status/1424845416697323522

Time to start contacting your Representative in the House!
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

Thanks for the further clarification, this is really something we can put under the category of incredible nonsense that is born in the minds of some politicians.

I have warned in some of my comments before that the US has too much of a role in the world of cryptocurrencies with all that infrastructure and with its influence on the rest of the world. If such a law were passed, then it is only a matter of time before US allies would also be forced to act in the same direction, which means that the EU, Japan, Israel, the UK, India, and many other countries would do something similar.

This doesn't look good at all if it comes true, and when the mainstream media catches this, it will surely resonate strongly with the crypto world - regardless of the fact that it will take as long as 18 months to be fully implemented.

Still, there is at least one other instance where things can be fixed by what @BrianH post (House or reconciliation process), but can they just overturn the Senate's decision?

As for the discussion on the forum, people just don't understand what this is about - I haven't paid any attention to this so far. In addition, BD has recently been flooded with threads from only one user and this thread did not have much visibility.

How likely is it to pass, though?  If all but one octogenarian realise it needs amending, would the others be inclined let it through without that?  I don't know how practical it is to propose putting it on hold until he retires, heh.

And if it did pass unaltered, would enforcement be to the "spirit of the law", or the letter?  There are still a lot of ifs involved.

I totally agree, although I saw some discussion also in the WO thread and I would say some other thread, but I don't remember now exactly.


Other than that, correct me if I am wrong, the bill could still be amended until it takes effect. It would be better if it was passed in a way favorable to the crypto industry now, because then it costs more to amend later on, but it's not like if it's passed today there's no chance of changing it.

That's what I've inferred from what I've read out there. Maybe that's why it doesn't influence the price much either, because the market thinks that if it's unfavorable there's still some chance to amend until it went into effect.

The wording of the original bill is so broad that it essentially makes everyone a broker, and all brokers are legally required to process tax forms for every single one of their customers. It makes all exchanges brokers, and so non-KYC accounts become a thing of the past. OK, fine. However, it also makes anyone who develops any cryptocurrency software, such as Bitcoin Core or any wallet a broker, so these developers would be legally required to collect the personal information of everyone who downloads their software and hand them tax forms, which is insane. It also makes all node operators and all miners in to brokers as well, so nodes in the US could only accept transactions which were accompanied by KYC information, and miners could only mine transactions which were accompanied by KYC information. Fail to collect this information and you are breaking the law.

Senator Cruz put it succinctly in the Senate yesterday when he said (paraphrased) that this bill would destroy the cryptocurrency industry in the US and force all innovators, developers, engineers, etc. overseas.

The bill hasn't passed yet, and if it does it will still be 18 months or so before it takes effect.

It is disappointing there is not more discussion about this on this forum. There is much more going on on Reddit and Twitter.

The budget for Military is already huge for America as Air conditioner budgets for soldiers in Afghanistan is near about $20 Billion as per reports and they have been spending so much from a long time on military practices and as said by you it's just another excuse by a funded banker who hates decentralisation of payment system and they can't directly oppose them so make such bills and reject crypto amendments.He doesn't care about people and only doing as per direction to receive his payment but the world will get use to bitcoin inspite of their decisions.

I honestly thought this was just another one of those stories that would end with a lot of clickbait titles, without any real effect. When you say “impossible to legally use in the US,” does that mean the entire crypto industry would simply collapse into the US if this bill passes?

What is not clear to me is that the crypto market does not react negatively to such news - maybe everyone thinks that something like this simply cannot happen?

He won't change his mind. The whole $50 billion for the military thing is just a smokescreen. We already spend almost $800 billion on the military, more than the next 11 highest spending countries combined. He is entirely funded by banks and Wall Street, and he isn't running for re-election so he will suffer no consequences from this. He will do as he is told so he can continue to receive his fat paychecks. Apparently he is also trying to get Wall Street jobs for some of his staffers: https://twitter.com/twobitidiot/status/1424834077920747520

Cruz proposed another amendment to strike the cryptocurrency provisions altogether. Guess what? Shelby objected to that too. Welcome to our "democracy". Our country is a joke.

So now the original bill goes to a vote. If it passes, that's it.

No it isn't.

The original bill, if passed without amendment, can make bitcoin impossible to legally use in the US.

For companies, he is preventing the freedom of Bitcoin,  Bitcoin taxation will really increase the amount of corporate reporting, but Bitcoin is anonymous, if every one of them is under the jurisdiction of the government. To proceed, then the anonymity of Bitcoin is broken.
This is not banning Bitcoin, nor is it blocking Bitcoin, it is changing Bitcoin.

He definitely screwed up everything. From what I am reading, it seems like a given that the bill will be passed by the Senate with the original language that was going to kill the industry in the US. It could still be fixed later on by the House or reconciliation process, but Senate is looking lost.

This is over alot more than "$28 billion." Congress realizes this. Apparently they could have raised over $100B simply by hiring more IRS agents. They want to stop the crypto industry before it has a chance to really take off.
Certainly hope this is true.

https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/despite-losing-crypto-tax-fight-industry-made-d-c-take-notice
...plus miners. Everyone contact Senator Richard Shelby.

I’m reading that he can withdraw his refusal by tomorrow?
Surely somebody will talk sense into him. Apparently he’s 87 & retires soon, what an asshat.

Given Ted Cruz's consistent ability to be on the wrong side of almost every issue, I am amazed he is standing up for cryptocurrency right now. I'd urge people to tune in and listen. He is speaking the most sense he has spoken in his entire career. I'm sure it has a lot to do with Texas' potential position to attract huge numbers of miners, but still.

Don't get me wrong, this legislation is still incredibly ugly, as Senator Cruz put it. The amendment we are fighting for is simply the lesser of the two evils. The legislation will still massively affect all of cryptocurrency, and not for the better.

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Edit:

The amendment we are interested in is now not going to be considered due to disagreement regarding a different amendment regarding $50 billion in military funding. Our democracy is so stupid.

Edit 2:

Senator Shelby refusing to let it pass because he is hung up on his military amendment. Bitcoin in America gets destroyed by one 87 year old who says he communicates with his staff via hand written notes because he can't use email. Our democracy is so stupid.

Senator Cynthia Lummis
@SenLummis
About to head down to the Senate floor to ask for unanimous consent to adopt the Toomey-Lummis-Warner amendment as part of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework. It’s not perfect, but it’s a big step in the right direction.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/floor_activity_pail.htm
https://twitter.com/senlummis/status/1424818165809287179?s=21





Quite incredible, we are literally creating history. Bitcoin is only 12 years old & we are changing the world of finance in the most powerful country in the world.

*facepalm*

So obvious that if the vote had happened to go the other way, you'd have looked like an even bigger pompous jackass than you already do?   

Maybe one day you'll climb out of your own backside and realise that not everyone shares your "unique" perception.  And what a relief that is.  I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone was as single-minded as you.  Try to remember that these senators are not infallible.  Chances are, they haven't spent a decade or more studying this subject and probably aren't particularly knowledgeable about it.  And it's unlikely they all share the views regarding personal freedom generally espoused in this community (hell, you don't even share all of those values).  Some of them may have vested interests that would lead them to vote against something that benefits Bitcoin.  You have literally no idea what's going on in any of their heads.  There are so many influences on an individual's mindset that you can't possibly pretend you can predict them all.  There was every chance they could have got this wrong. 

Congratulations, you recognised the preferred outcome.  You happened to call it right this time.  But it wasn't a foregone conclusion.  If you think otherwise, you are delusional.  In fact, there's no "if" involved, I already know you're delusional.  I'm just hoping you'll finally recognise it.  Acceptance is the first step to recovery, after all.

The very fact that there was a vote, which you have no control over the outcome of, would suggest that you could have been wrong.  Can you comprehend this fact?



Learn to people, plz.  Unless you somehow enjoy being an unrelatable, obnoxious automaton.

Huge tax revenue? Hardly. This bill would raise an estimated $28 billion in taxes from cryptocurrencies. Compare that to the $2.2 trillion COVID relief bill and the $2.3 trillion omnibus spending bill last year. Compare to the $1.2 trillion spending in this very infrastructure bill, and another $3.5 trillion in the next budget bill. And we now have a Fed balance sheet rapidly heading for $9 trillion. $28 billion in taxes is absolutely minuscule in comparison. You could gain multitudes higher than that by simply closing some (not even all!) tax loopholes that multi-national corporations use to avoid taxes. You could gain multitudes higher than that by removing the tax exempt status of religious organizations.

Absolutely. The statement "Land of the Free" is little more than propaganda at this point.