Little update on this guys -
Jake Chervinsky
@jchervinsky
Monday mid-day infra bill update:
We're moving in a good direction. We may reach a point today (or later this week) where our fate rests in the hands of a few Senators, & we need to light up their phones with 1,000s of calls in support.
I'll let you know if & when. Stay frosty.
https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1422255785195749387?s=21
Edit -
May as well add this too -
@jimmysong
There's bipartisan support to change the crypto language in the infrastructure bill. @PatToomey (R-PA) and @RonWyden (D-OR) both think the bill's crypto tax language doesn't make any sense.
Maybe this pleb thing works outside of #Bitcoin as well.
Edit -
@NeilJacobs
For those who say contacting Congress doesn’t matter:
Senator Pat Toomey: “The bipartisan infrastructure package includes a hastily-designed tax reporting regime for cryptocurrency. Simply put, the text is unworkable. I plan to offer an amendment to fix it.”
#bitcoin
https://twitter.com/neiljacobs/status/1422301936326520834?s=21
Topic: Devastating "Infrastructure" bill in US - contact your representatives - page 4. (Read 688 times)
August 02, 2021, 02:28:01 PM
August 01, 2021, 03:32:22 PM
calm down folks
its about MSB that act as brokers.. its not about every average joe.
your not a MSB if you take money out of an ATM or as for a withdrawal from a bank. so relax.
developers are not MSB. even the developers that created the mastercard software/network were not themselves treated as MSB.
but if you are a service(business) doing transfers on behalf of others.
for instance:
escrows
coinjoins/coin swaps
exchanges..
then watch out
if your a customer of those businesses relax you will not be asked to become a MSB. but expect many services you use to change funds into different currencies. to kyc you.
if your a software developer,(blockchain dev) your not a MSB
the most that i can see happening is coinjoin/escrow's that have offices in america, pull out of america and set up in another country and then IP ban US citizens. much like the days of the bitlicence
(by which most MSB's done that already so not much to happen)
its about MSB that act as brokers.. its not about every average joe.
your not a MSB if you take money out of an ATM or as for a withdrawal from a bank. so relax.
developers are not MSB. even the developers that created the mastercard software/network were not themselves treated as MSB.
but if you are a service(business) doing transfers on behalf of others.
for instance:
escrows
coinjoins/coin swaps
exchanges..
then watch out
if your a customer of those businesses relax you will not be asked to become a MSB. but expect many services you use to change funds into different currencies. to kyc you.
if your a software developer,(blockchain dev) your not a MSB
the most that i can see happening is coinjoin/escrow's that have offices in america, pull out of america and set up in another country and then IP ban US citizens. much like the days of the bitlicence
(by which most MSB's done that already so not much to happen)
August 01, 2021, 02:03:59 PM
From the article you linked to:
Thing is, this doesn't just affect US citizens, but will affect everyone who interacts with any US based service, company, entity, or individual. I can't verify that you are not a US citizen and don't require me to send you a 1099 unless you complete KYC to prove it.
I usually don't care about regulations being passed forcing centralized exchanges to do certain things, because if you value your privacy or security at all then you are already steering well clear of centralized exchanges. But this bill is an absolute mess and will affect the entire bitcoin ecosystem. Contact your representatives and tell them to stop this now.
Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/fundamentally-incompatible-how-the-proposed-crypto-tax-rules-miss-the-mark
This potential law, much like the new European money laundering rules introduced this month, would likely create huge honeypots of personal and financial data to be targeted by hackers – including your data, whether you sought to evade taxes or not.
This is another very good point. If you want to use bitcoin, then everyone you interact with, from wallet developers to nodes to miners to exchanges could be required to collect your KYC. How long do you think it will be before a massive hack or leak of this information? The Ledger database hack, for example, has led to large number of successful scams and an absolutely massive number of attempted scams, including some fairly sophisticated attacks and threats of physical violence. And that's just based on the knowledge that people own a hardware wallet, with no knowledge about how much bitcoin they own. Do you really want your KYC details attached to the fact that you just moved a significant amount of bitcoin, or attached to your cold storage wallet addresses? Say goodbye to plausible deniability or any sort of privacy.Thing is, this doesn't just affect US citizens, but will affect everyone who interacts with any US based service, company, entity, or individual. I can't verify that you are not a US citizen and don't require me to send you a 1099 unless you complete KYC to prove it.
I usually don't care about regulations being passed forcing centralized exchanges to do certain things, because if you value your privacy or security at all then you are already steering well clear of centralized exchanges. But this bill is an absolute mess and will affect the entire bitcoin ecosystem. Contact your representatives and tell them to stop this now.
August 01, 2021, 12:54:49 PM
Essentially, the definition they are applying is so broad as to encompass pretty much anyone they want it to encompass:
Exactly!Yes, this is draft legislation and it is up to citizens to make sure it does not become final. This is not the time to be resting on people's heels or attacking the source. Multiple crypto news outlets are trying to make people aware of this potentially devastating law. "Any person who ... effectuates digital asset transfers" could refer to anyone sending crypto.
Senators are currently rushing this legislation through and attempting to sneak crypto legislation in and finalize the bill THIS WEEKEND, while many are not paying attention. They will likely vote on it Sunday or Monday.
Senators will be pressured to accept the final version, which very likely will include this amendment, because the bill is "infrastructure." The bill is already likely filibuster proof.
Quote
...the cost for those involved in cryptocurrency may be high, with some claiming that it will “kill” the industry as we know it.
The bill includes a provision that broadens the definition of a broker for tax purposes to include “any person who is responsible for and regularly provides and services effectuating digital asset transfers” in the.
Crypto miners, proof-of-stake network validators, and maybe even anyone involved in decentralized finance markets (think liquidators or governance-token holders) will be required to file 1099 forms. The ostensible reason is to ensure people pay taxes on their crypto earnings.
Cryptocurrency wallet regulations would require banks and money service organizations (MSBs) to submit reports, preserve records, and authenticate the identities of consumers. It’s possible that things will deteriorate in the future, according to a new report from the Treasury Department.
General counsel for DeFi lending protocol Compound, Jake Chervinsky, tweeted, “Non-custodial actors, such as miners, are unable to obtain the information required to complete Form 1099s. In practice, this might amount to a de facto mining prohibition in the United States."
https://crypto.co/technology/us-senate-550b-infrastructure-bill-will-kill-the-crypto-industry/The bill includes a provision that broadens the definition of a broker for tax purposes to include “any person who is responsible for and regularly provides and services effectuating digital asset transfers” in the.
Crypto miners, proof-of-stake network validators, and maybe even anyone involved in decentralized finance markets (think liquidators or governance-token holders) will be required to file 1099 forms. The ostensible reason is to ensure people pay taxes on their crypto earnings.
Cryptocurrency wallet regulations would require banks and money service organizations (MSBs) to submit reports, preserve records, and authenticate the identities of consumers. It’s possible that things will deteriorate in the future, according to a new report from the Treasury Department.
General counsel for DeFi lending protocol Compound, Jake Chervinsky, tweeted, “Non-custodial actors, such as miners, are unable to obtain the information required to complete Form 1099s. In practice, this might amount to a de facto mining prohibition in the United States."
Front page on Coindesk:
Quote
The creators of software wallets could even be required to track and report user transactions
https://www.coindesk.com/fundamentally-incompatible-how-the-proposed-crypto-tax-rules-miss-the-markAnother excellent episode on Coindesk on how majorly flawed this legislation is.
Speak up! Contact your representatives.
August 01, 2021, 06:42:44 AM
so calm down they just want to enhance the standard aml rules of exchange/MSB regulations that already exist.
Clearly the people drafting the legislation don't even know for sure what it is or isn't yet. And governments have a habit of attempting to draft legislation that isn't remotely feasible because they often lack the understanding to see the consequences of their ill-considered plans. It's right that people are challenging this to make sure it's done correctly.
It looks as though you've once again treated something as a foregone conclusion just because you've imagined the outcome being a certain way. You should work on that. Reality will bite you again if you're not careful. Then you'll be in denial about yet another thing for the rest of your life.
oh grow up you trolling drama queen
i said DRAFT and SUGGEST
quoting breitbart.. that links to coindesk.. that says 'we received a draft'.. but doesnt disclose it..
yawn
but from what it does suggest:
yawn
but from what it does suggest:
maybe you just dont understand the subtlety of my yawn. or my calm down hint of nothing important..
maybe you didnt get where i said 'they want' instead of your thinking that i said 'they will'
well yet again you jump to social drama trolling to try to poke the bear.. but you are just making it too easy
to put you back in your toddlers crib.
i know you took one line, out of context that avoided the words DRAFT/ SUGGEST to then go on a social drama ramble about how you think my one line you did quote must be some committed conclusion..
but like always you never understand context or content. you just want to be a drama queen
take your drama else where.
August 01, 2021, 06:30:13 AM
There is a great Twitter thread about this here: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1421150344051048451
Essentially, the definition they are applying is so broad as to encompass pretty much anyone they want it to encompass:
It could be argued that everyone from node operators and miners to software developers are providing a service which effectuates transfers of bitcoin. This bill would require them all to collect KYC from all their users so they could issue them all with a Form 1099. This isn't just a huge threat to your privacy, but to bitcoin itself. If they get what they want, then best case scenario we have nodes KYCing users before accepting their transactions to be relayed and refusing transactions from nodes which don't enforce KYC. Worst case scenario they simply ban bitcoin since it is completely impossible for miners to collect KYC for every transaction they mine or wallet devs to collect KYC for everyone who downloads their wallet.
Call your member of the House and Senate directly. Or use the phone number and advice here: https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/stop-the-senate-from-sneaking-through-total-surveillance-of-the-crypto-economy-call-517-200-9518/
If you don't want to call, then email them. You can also contact senators Kyrsten Sinema and Rob Portman directly at the following links:
https://www.sinema.senate.gov/contact-kyrsten
https://www.portman.senate.gov/meet/contact?office=37
Essentially, the definition they are applying is so broad as to encompass pretty much anyone they want it to encompass:
Quote
any person who (for consideration) is responsible for and regularly provides any service effectuating transfers of digital assets.
It could be argued that everyone from node operators and miners to software developers are providing a service which effectuates transfers of bitcoin. This bill would require them all to collect KYC from all their users so they could issue them all with a Form 1099. This isn't just a huge threat to your privacy, but to bitcoin itself. If they get what they want, then best case scenario we have nodes KYCing users before accepting their transactions to be relayed and refusing transactions from nodes which don't enforce KYC. Worst case scenario they simply ban bitcoin since it is completely impossible for miners to collect KYC for every transaction they mine or wallet devs to collect KYC for everyone who downloads their wallet.
Call your member of the House and Senate directly. Or use the phone number and advice here: https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/stop-the-senate-from-sneaking-through-total-surveillance-of-the-crypto-economy-call-517-200-9518/
If you don't want to call, then email them. You can also contact senators Kyrsten Sinema and Rob Portman directly at the following links:
https://www.sinema.senate.gov/contact-kyrsten
https://www.portman.senate.gov/meet/contact?office=37
August 01, 2021, 06:10:47 AM
so calm down they just want to enhance the standard aml rules of exchange/MSB regulations that already exist.
Clearly the people drafting the legislation don't even know for sure what it is or isn't yet. And governments have a habit of attempting to draft legislation that isn't remotely feasible because they often lack the understanding to see the consequences of their ill-considered plans. It's right that people are challenging this to make sure it's done correctly.
It looks as though you've once again treated something as a foregone conclusion just because you've imagined the outcome being a certain way. You should work on that. Reality will bite you again if you're not careful. Then you'll be in denial about yet another thing for the rest of your life.
July 31, 2021, 04:14:25 PM
quoting breitbart.. that links to coindesk.. that says 'we received a draft'.. but doesnt disclose it..
yawn
but from what it does suggest:
is not users making transactions
is not users depositing into services/custodians
its, if people on licenced exchanges trade $10k coin for other currencies whether it be cash or other cryptocurrencies, file a report the same way the exchange files reports of cash over $10k
so calm down they just want to enhance the standard aml rules of exchange/MSB regulations that already exist.
its nothing to do with all businesses, all users
it highlights exchanges and market places as brokers. not users. not retail stores
i think this is less about taxing users. and more about defining exchanges and market places(even decentralised ones) as things that require having a MSB licence and then be required to follow rules, where they can make money on licences and fines for not reporting
yawn
but from what it does suggest:
is not users making transactions
is not users depositing into services/custodians
its, if people on licenced exchanges trade $10k coin for other currencies whether it be cash or other cryptocurrencies, file a report the same way the exchange files reports of cash over $10k
so calm down they just want to enhance the standard aml rules of exchange/MSB regulations that already exist.
its nothing to do with all businesses, all users
it highlights exchanges and market places as brokers. not users. not retail stores
i think this is less about taxing users. and more about defining exchanges and market places(even decentralised ones) as things that require having a MSB licence and then be required to follow rules, where they can make money on licences and fines for not reporting
July 31, 2021, 03:45:32 PM
The US looks about to pass this infrastructure bill, which will have devastating impacts across all of crypto, if it passes:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/07/29/cryptocurrency-tax-threatens-to-put-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-in-upheaval/
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/07/29/cryptocurrency-tax-threatens-to-put-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-in-upheaval/
Quote
The proposal defines a digital asset as any “digital representation of value which is recorded on a cryptographically secured distributed ledger or any similar technology as specified by the [Treasury] Secretary.’’.
Kristin Smith, the executive director of the Blockchain Association, said that this could significantly ramp up reporting for businesses and Americans.
“We interpret this to mean software wallet developers, hardware wallet manufacturers, multisig service providers, liquidity providers, DAO token holders and potentially even miners,” Smith said.
Contact your representatives! Kristin Smith, the executive director of the Blockchain Association, said that this could significantly ramp up reporting for businesses and Americans.
“We interpret this to mean software wallet developers, hardware wallet manufacturers, multisig service providers, liquidity providers, DAO token holders and potentially even miners,” Smith said.
Jump to: