Topic: Developer JGarzik reiterates, upgradable nature of bitcoin! Challenges Ethereum! - page 2. (Read 3260 times)

read here: https://nxtforum.org/general/how-does-nxt-fix-the-nothing-at-stake-problem/

can you explain how they become centralised over time? due to "rich getting richer"? i could say the same about mining. how many times has "51%" attack been an issue in the last 6 months? an entire 50% of mining power has been controlled by one party multiple times.

i actually agree with you that the distribution was very bad and still is, and its one of the reasons i heavily support nem.

ok lets for the sake of making some kind of progress, assume you are correct.

enter nem - New Economy movement.

PoS + PoI (proof of importance)

3000 original stake holders 1200 being veteran accounts - sock puppets removed via taint analysis. each stake holder getting an equal amount being 1 million nem.

proof of importance is an algorithm that decides your forging power based on how important you are to the network by giving a weight to every transaction - or lack of transactions - you do. ie. hoarders are punished for hoarding, you get higher weight the more you distribute the coin and higher weight for the more transactions you do to other nodes who are also of benefit to the network. sending transactions back and forth from your own accounts actually lowers your importance. this eliminates the "rich getting richer" issue and promotes the growth of a healthy network and incentivises distribution. i stand by the "nothing at stake" being pure bollox but even if it wasnt PoI would eliminate that issue if it was an issue.

due to having 3000 stake holders getting equal amounts - the initial distribution is a gigantic benefit. due to PoI the network is poised for rapid growth and then add the 3000 people. thats a network effect with incentive to grow the network effect. with little fear of anyone dumping. PoI ensures that rich dont get richer and the little guy can get just as high a chance of forging as a large holder.

nem is also written from scratch so bitcoin cant clone any of it. it will support all the features of nxt - plus more not yet announced.

its a given that nxt does have advantages over bitcoin but it also has flaws of its own. nem has these benefits over bitcoin plus benefits over nxt and doesnt have the flaws of nxt or bitcoin. sounds to good to be true right? well its not. nem stakes were trading for 1500 dollars prior to the alpha release - there are many reasons for that, the ones iv listed being only a handful.

want to find out more?

First of all, yes the attack was on Mintpal, not Vericoin. But that's the only thing you've said that was correct....The attacker managed to get over 30% of all Vericoins, with 30% of Vericoin's in his hands, he had a decent enough chance to do a Nothing-at-Stake attack. Read here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1oi7su/criticisms_of_proofofstake/, and Please read here http://ftp://ftp.gate.cnrs.fr/RePEc/2014/1404.pdf

It details how a Nothing at Stake attack can be done. Along with that attack being a huge threat, there are many other issues with PoS coins, such as they eventually Centralize over Time.

And for NXT's distribution, it will never get any better. The first 50 NXT addresses Own over 48% of all NXT coins there is. NXT's distribution, unfortunately, will always be doomed. 50 addresses, of which 1 individual possibly owns more than 1, stands among the worst distributions there ever was for a cryptocoin.

actually it was nothing to do with vericoin. vericoin was the target of the hack, but it was the exchange that was hacked. vericoin itself was never hacked. that "nothing-at-stake" thing it total nonsense aswell. even vitalik buterin called over to the nxt forum to discus it and he stated that nxt actually does things far better than he thought and agreed they had solved(or nxt never suffered from) nothing-at-stake. i can link that to you if you want? as for distribution, that will solve itself over the long term.

As you've seen with Vericoin, PoS is not the way to go. The attacker gained over 30% of Vericoins coin supply, making him eligable to do the Nothing-at-Stake attack...and it ended with a rollback, which destroyed Vericoin's fungibility and future. That would of never happened to a PoW coin.

NXT faces that same issue+the absolutely horrible distribution.

ok great now we have established that, please refer to this post and note the very partial list of features.

for the record, nxt is totally new codebase.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7847575

still "go bitcoin"?

edit: eeehhh BUUUUURRRN!!!!!.

That's it. If the alt-coin isn't using Bitcoin's codebase/Bitcoin-based, then Bitcoin can't incorporate w/e(features etc) that Alt-coin has. Basically, alt-coins that use Bitcoin's codebase are useless, because as mentioned by OP, Bitcoin can simply copy what that alt-coin has into Bitcoin itself. Alt-coins that aren't using Bitcoin's codebase are the only ones that stand a chance to even remotely stand alongside/compete with Bitcoin.

and what if its not using the bitcoin code base and is totally incompatible? what then?

Bitcoin developers may let the ecosystem design interesting new features (hello, Ethereum!) and then incorporate them into bitcoin. That line right there, is extremely important. It means if an alt-coin were to design something "innovative" and it's using the Bitcoin codebase, Bitcoin can simply incorporate whatever features that alt-coin has, into Bitcoin via copy/paste, rendering said alt-coin, useless.

GO BITCOIN!!

Well, I guess time will tell.

Once companies like Expedia, Newegg, and Overstock begin accepting NxT, let me know, and I'll take a further look into it.  Until, I'll stick to being a Bitcoin fanatic.

But sometimes you are needed to make an address public, for example to get paid in adv campaings and what not.

So given Dark Wallet also doesn't solve the privacy problem, does CryptoNote based coins (basically Monero) have a legit role within the crypto world?

Im sure a lot of people would enjoy the extra privacy for whatever reasons.

so it's a bit safer? Is that it? Nxt is guna have instant (1 second) transactions in 2 months. It's guna be the first truly p2p crypto exchange using multigateway and asset exchange very soon - end stages of beta on live net. Mmorpg's built on top of the blockchain using nxt as in game currency and items won being tradable on a p2p market place. Digital goods store in alpha/beta. That's just the tip of the iceberg too. All of this with out any third parties.

I don't mean to offend bitcoin being safer is not moving at a rapid pace. It's a dead stop in comparison to other platforms.

Let the core devel team do their job -- maintaining the core protocol and the network.  That's more than enough responsibility on their shoulders as is.

Bitcoin now has a massive developer community behind it, so let them do the job of developing new services, solutions, security, and so on,  And from what I see, people are doing it at a rapid pace.  Many of the ideas coming out won't stick, but a few will.  Again, massive thefts on a large scale are now a thing of the past, and shouldn't happen again, assuming the necessary operations upgrade their systems appropriately.  Just that is a massive leap forward for bitcoin.

does this change one single thing for the end user?

okay, thats the point. Bitcoin will never add something, that makes it even more anonymous. bitcoin wants and will go mainstream.

other coins have to do the hard stuff...

(knock* knock*...Zerocoin?)

Huh?  Bitcoin is changing more rapidly than probably any industry I can think of.  Just in the past 6 months we've seen massive changes.  You know all those large-scale thefts / hacks we kept hearing about?  We don't hear about those too much anymore, right?  That's because the entire architecture of systems has changed, making it much, much more difficult to pull a massive theft off.

This will lead itself to people becoming more comfortable trusting bitcoin, which will lead to additional solutions and innovations, and round and round we go until soccer moms are paying their babysitter with bitcoin via their iPhone.  There's still loads of work to be done, but don't kid yourself, Bitcoin is humming along at a nice pace.

whats new that you can do with bitcoin now that these upgrades have been made? any new features or what?

Agreed! It seems a lot of people feel very confident in talking the talk, but nobody is willing to walk the walk.

What a dumb argument. First you don't know if that even is my address, just because it's listed in my profile. Second by that logic no one could ever publish a bitcoin address to receive payments.

Of course technology could be improved in a way that doesn't allow full tracking of all transactions on a published address.

Perfect trolling. I already had you on ignore, now I know it was not a good idea to delete that list...

bitcoin is pseudonymous already. but then you dont realise that you are the one ruining your own privacy..

you have publicly announced your own bitcoin address:     1BW7LRNWvgPvLBHPWcEiDWqP5xbggxNWyy

so now people know any transactions that ever touched that address belonged to IIOII....

no matter how great the code is, humans will always be the ultimate reason it succeeds or fails. and you have made your privacy fail  

Need to implement it and make it live rather than just talk.