Topic: Diablo Mining Company - page 10. (Read 96370 times)

You're right, its a little messy because people aren't getting paid back what they originally put in because they want their money now instead of when they'd normally get it. That is their choice, however, I am not forcing them to sell their shares for less than they purchased them for.

I never claimed DMC was a success. I should have accepted USD investments as well as BTC, except DMC just wasn't ready for that yet. It would have raised money much faster and we could be already on our way to accept customers. DMC 2.0 probably will accept USD investments as well.

Also, I do agree that I shouldn't have listened to early shareholders and sold IPO shares at less than 1.0. At the time, their arguments sounded like a good idea, however none of them had any actual business expertise and I should have realized it was a bad idea. I want to believe they had their hearts in the right place, though.

Except I never changed it into an ETF. I was using mining bonds to fulfill the mining part of the plan until the datacenter was constructed and mining equipment could be placed into it. At no time was the datacenter taken off the table.

DMC 2.0 is going to continue pursuing the original plan.

That fine till he trades away all the ASICMINER shares for worthless shares in other companies in the same way he gave away all the bitcoins he raised in  the IPO to other companies .

If he still had the bitcoins hes supposed to have the shareholders would be on their way to having actual assets to show for the investment.

Problem with that is that shares are fungible.  So you can't give back based on what people put in.  In your example all three of the guys would get 5.667 lollipops meaning the one who put in 10 lost out to the ones who put in 5 and 2.

Everyone's meant to pay the same amount of lollipops - that's where you made a basic mistake.  Some adjustment of the price is unavoidable - but to go from putting in 10 lollipops to putting in 0.2 is just silly.

I haven't suffered any personal loss - the bunch of DMC I now hold were bought at just over 0.02 each on average.  But my profit when I convert those to ASIC-MINER and sell them hasn't come (as it should have) from great management of the fund.  It's come from massive dilution of share value, coupled with investors totally losing confidence - meaning my profit is really coming from other investors who invested earlier.  And that's not a success for DMC, no matter how you spin it.

I bought those shares when they were heavily undervalued.  I'm puzzled why all these people you think want to invest in DMC 2 weren't snapping them up - just the ASICMINER were plainly worth more than the price I managed to buy at.  Actually I lie - I'm not puzzled at all : you should figure out the reason for it and what it tells you.

The main problem is you did a bait and switch during your IPO and instead of a mining company that would build its own datacentre and hold assets you turned it into an ETF which destroyed more value than a hooker getting AIDS.

There was no motion to change the original business plan into an ETF which you chose to do all by yourself.

This is partly why no one takes you seriously.

Lets say I have 3 shares. I sell 1 share for 10 lollipops. With permission of the first shareholder, I sell the next share for 5, and the next for 2. I have a total of 17. According to your math, I have instantly lost 13 lollipops, even though they never actually existed.

I then hand back 10, 5, and 2 lollipops to the original investors, respectively. I have handed back a total of 17 lollipops, the original number I was handed.

You're the guy with 6 who thinks he should get more than he originally put in, even though neither the guy with 10 or the guy with 2 are getting more than they put in.

Let me make you a really simple "painting" of what has happened   

100 shares, assets are 100 lollipops - NAV 1 lollipop per share so for this game, lets say the NAV is 1 lp

Now, if you take 10 lollipops, and stick them up your arse, those lollipops are bad... not good now. Understand it?
So you have 100 shares, 90 lollipops and your shares NAV is .. lets say it all together ... yes, wipe that drool off your chin... and lets say it together now: "0.9" . Good boy.  Lets move on.
Right. So you managed to waste 10 lollipops and your shareholders are not happy.
No problem dear D3, you just take another 50 lollipops and flush those down the toilet. Do not worry, you can blame that on this Other Guy.
And so on and on,  until you have 0.03 fkn lollipops per share. 
If you sold shares later at 0.11 and bought that shit back.... SO FKN WHAT! You fucked everyone, who was supporting your from the day one.
And now you are asking coin for 2.0? Really?

How about you tell us all, what is it exactly you are going to do with more coin?
Maybe you can introduce us to your business plan? You know what, forget the business plan. You can not write it up any ways and its just a big fkn "guess" of what will happen. Lets make it easier (and more fun) so everyone can understand your new business - how about a small description of your business model?

You have no idea what business model is? No problem, here it is Definition of 'Business Model' - The plan implemented by a company to generate revenue and make a profit from operations. The model includes the components and functions of the business, as well as the revenues it generates and the expenses it incurs.   

Lets make it fun and easy! Fun is good!
Now, lets not allow you to fuck this up. Let me help you out here and list some key "questions" you must be able to answer. Use that as guide to describe us your fabulous business model:


* Key activities
(you write your stuff here)

* Key partners
(you write your stuff here)

* Your Key resources
(you write your stuff here)

* What your Cost Structure looks like
(you write your stuff here)

* Revenue stream
(you write your stuff here)

* Your Customer Segments
(you write your stuff here)

* Customer Relationships
(you write your stuff here)

* and Channels (communication obviously)
(you write your stuff here)


And now, the most interesting one:

* Value proposition
(you write your stuff here)

Can you do that? 
Sure, you can start whining how this tool is shit and you hate it....
Read up http://www.slideshare.net/techdude/business-model-generation  and have fun.

You've refused to list a sell order on the exchange for that price, and you also have demanded to get ahead in line. Shares will be bought back according to what price they are being sold at. You threw a hissy fit on IRC because you think you should get preferential treatment over other shareholders.

You have tried to claim that 1.00 (the IPO price) to 0.03 (the floor during the nefario incident) means I lost 97% of the money put into DMC. Since virtually all shares were never even sold at full IPO price due to trading, this claim is false. The mid-mortem I wrote up above details approximately how much was put in, how much was paid out, and approximately how much the assets are valued.

When DMC finally buys back all the shares, we will most likely break even. If the minimum of 1691 BTC went in, 1105 + 90 BTC have been paid out, and our assets are at least worth 496 BTC, we break even. If the maximum of 1966 BTC went in, 1105 + 90 BTC have been paid out, and our assets are worth at least 771 BTC, we break even.

I want to make sure the remaining shareholders get as much out of these assets as possible. Neither ASICMINER nor BTCMC can be sold yet, and Namworld is still fighting amazingrando on BTC-MINING so that might not be a complete loss.

Ones who sold out at  0.9 are the smart lucky ones. Rest of them got fucked and lost over 98% share price.  
BTW, if I recall, DMC lost more of its value than defaulted scammer Trendon Shavers pass through crap (before GLBSE closed).
Why don't you buy that crap back from me at price you sold it to me?
 

The people who bought at full price fit into two categories. 1) They believe the original plan is sound and want to invest in DMC 2.0, 2) They didn't agree with the discount plan and sold out early in the 0.90s.

GLBSE motions didn't work right yet at that time, so this was an informal motion. Almost all the original shareholders I personally knew on IRC, so it was easy to get done.

So bottomline is that people who bought DMC shares with cash at IPO have lost the bulk of their investment, but those who got them from trading with you have broken even or made a profit?

IF the people who bought at 1.0 BTC agreed for you sell/trade more at far lower prices then they only have themselves to blame for having the value of their shares diluted down by over 90%.  Agreeing to that was sheer lunacy on their part(if they did - I wasn't watching at the time so never checked for votes on GLBSE).

Since nefario refused to ever release the purchase or trade logs or make them available to me, and I never kept fully detailed records, I'm going to try to reconstruct how much was put into DMC, and how much was already paid back. Without exact records, I can only approximate this the best I can.

What was sold
About 50 shares were sold at the full 1 BTC price. At the suggestions of the community and existing shareholders, and with permission with the shareholders, I started trading bonds for shares at a discount.

The first discount was 1/3rd off, slowly moving down to 2/3rds as bond prices decreased faster than I decreased the discount relative to mhash/bond valuation. Although we tripled our dividend income, the value of DMC shares dropped to around 0.50 due to the bond market collapsing under the care of nefario.

The next approximately 3000 shares where part of the original discount program, the first 250 sharers were sold around between 0.50 each, the next 1000 were traded in from between 0.40 and 0.50, the last 1750 were traded in from between 0.30 and 0.40. This totals between 1050 BTC and 1325 BTC.

(Side note: During the nefario incident, DMC held about 1543 BTC in assets (detailed in the open letter to nefario ordering him to unlock DMC's account), and had already paid out 80 BTC dividends. This means I increased the original investment 18% to 48%).

The final 17.9k were all trade-ins from ASICMINER, which were traded in at approximately 0.033 each, all traded in at the time ASICMINER was still IPOing at 0.10 before it took off to 0.15+ before GLBSE collapsed. This accounts to 591 BTC.

Approximately between 1691 and 1966 BTC were invested into DMC.

What has been paid back
At peak, we had sold 20,909 shares (out of 1,000,000). IPO was 2% finished before GLBSE collapsed. We currently have 11,579 shares still active, 9,330 shares have been purchased back.

After nefario unlocked DMC's GLBSE account, the money from Obsi closing OBSI.ABMO (having bought back the 9290 shares of that back at 0.10 each, and paid about 12 BTC in dividends per week for about 6 weeks while the account was locked) totaled about 1001 BTC.

BTCMC paid about 11 BTC per month, so about 11 BTC, during that time, and BTC-MINING paid about 0.5 per week, so about 3 BTC. About 1015 BTC was paid out to buy back 9,330 shares.

Given about 1691 to 1966 BTC were paid into DMC and about 1015 BTC have been paid back plus 90 BTC in dividends, between 586 and 861 BTC are still owed.

What DMC currently holds
Given current BTC prices of $26 USD, and BTCMC's asset value at between 1027 (BFL and Bitcoinica fully lost) and 2083 (BFL and Bitcoinica fully recovered), and BTCMC having 10,000 shares outstanding

1000 ASICMINER, valued at between 0.40 and 1.00, is worth between 400 and 1000 BTC.
106 BTC-MINING, valued at 0.04, is worth 4 BTC.
1000 BTCMC, valued at between 0.1027 and 0.2083, is worth between 103 and 208 BTC.

DMC has approximately between 507 and 1212 BTC in assets.

I'm going to keep a list of trade offers. ASICMINER prices could peak above 1 BTC, so this is a great deal.

77 for 7 then. Let me know how I should proceed.

Trolls like you keep trying to push that agenda, why bother? nefario in the end admitted what he did and closed GLBSE before the UK equivalent of the SEC could catch him and before anyone could sue him or press charges. I have never screwed my shareholders. You claim I've lost thousands of BTC? Somewhere between 1500-2000 BTC was originally invested into DMC, I've paid back around 750-1000 BTC, and I haven't stopped yet. Most investors have made a profit, not a loss.

Those ASICMINER shares may be worth as much as 750 BTC, so even if the other two assets are a complete loss (thanks Bitcoinica, BFL, and amazingrando), DMC ends up at least breaking even. This is why I'm willing to trade in 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER, it pays back whos left.

No, but I'll do it for 88. The shares are cheap on Bitfunder, get them while you still can.

Would you do 8 ASICMINER shares for 83 DMC shares?

Are you surprised? I actually read this entire thread... Diablo is clearly not capable of running a business, and has committed fraud at least two times in this situation. The entire time, his posts seem as if he is in a fantasy world, not acknowledging the realities of his situation at all. He got extremely lucky when GLBSE failed, and now he blames everything that happened on Nefario... when in fact he screwed over his shareholders and made his asset worthless before there was any problem with GLBSE.

He flat out stole thousands of BTC from shareholders, don't be surprised that he still has a lot of them to buy ASICMINER shares for himself. Expecting him to act rationally in any way, and/or honor any contracts he enters in to, is a very bad idea.

Hi Diablo,

I own 110 shares of DMC and wish to trade them for 10 shares of ASICMINER, as soon as possible.

Thanks,

-iB

Confirming that I'll be doing this trade with whatever DMC shares I hold (for my fund) when ASICMINER becomes tradable.  It seems a fair trade - I take slightly less value than the DMC shares are worth (including giving up my portion of the 15 BTC received already from BTCMC) in return for the higher liquidity of ASICMINER shares.

Can't say for sure how many DMC shares I'll have then - but would expect it to be in the 300-500 range unless someone buys a LONG way up the DMC Ask list.