Topic: Diablo Mining Company will never buy Butterfly Labs hardware - page 3. (Read 10934 times)

This is not a speculation thread. DMC's ban on BFL hardware is based on what they have already done, not what they will do.

Except there is no speculation here. DMC will not buy BFL hardware. I do not care if they deliver exactly what they promised, they already burned that bridge. This is purely based on their current and past actions, and has nothing to do with what they will or will not deliver.

BFL still refuses to quote power usage figures, and they're probably in the realm of 28nm or SASIC anyhow.

This forum is such a mess.   

Diablo, dude, I love your mining software, I use it, but man you come off as sour-grapes with this post, and being overly melodramatic given the fact you are a moderator of these forums.

What's the going rate for 0.5mg of Xanax on SR ? I might suggest placing an order for one and calm down.

EDIT: Shit dude, I will GIVE you the BTC for 0.5mg of Xanax to calm down. Please don't flake out on us.

I haven't tried mining on the 480s, only on V6 240s.  The reason behind this is I have a handful of unused boards that have V6s on them, while the K7 boards are all used for my real work.

I made an entry in the mining hardware comparison long ago:

The V6 240s run at 375 MH/s at about 16w.  This isn't optimized (other than to use some DSP48s), so I guess you could probably squeeze another 50-100 MH/s out of the devices with some effort.

The MH/s based on the size of the device breaks down as follows:

375MH/s / 240 = 1.5625 MH/s per "size unit"

Based on this, I would estimate the 480 could do:

480 * 1.5625 = 750 MH/s

I haven't used Xilinx's power estimator for a K7 bitcoin design, but Xilinx claims 50% less power than the V6.

So, you could assume your worst case would be 32w, best case 16w.  Somewhere in the middle will probably be your actual power.

BUT!!  You may think the Kintex 7 would be better for mining (price/performance) than a Spartan or Artix device, but you'd be wrong!

Take the Mod miner for example:

840 MH/s @ 40w in 4 x Spartan 150 devices

840 MH/s / (4 * 150) = 1.4 MH/s per "size unit"

So, the S6 is a little less efficient in terms of size/performance (partly because I used DSP48s in the V6 example to reduce logic usage, but there are other factors), but the price difference is huge.  I think the S6 LX150 is ~$100, so there's no real good reason to buy the K7 or V6.  The K7 and V6 provide more advanced functionality (high speed serial, more internal memory, more DSP slices, more pins, etc) that aren't required for bitcoin mining.  You'd end up paying for features you don't use.

Once the Artix devices come out in force, I suspect they will be similar in price/performance to the S6.  Power consumption will be somewhere between 50% less and the same as the S6.  However, they are the last devices to go into production (after the K7 and V7).

What do you think that Kintex 7 480 would do Mh/s and Mh/W? Any insight into Artix 7s? They are supposed to slot into the Spartan 6 space once available in good volume.

Woah, there's NO way the V7-2000 part will cost $1000.  As you may know, the price of the chips really depends on the so called "relationship" between Xilinx and your company.  The company must negotiate a discount based on its sized, volume and other "factors".

I work for a large company that is a huge user of Xilinx FPGAs (ranging in size small devices to large devices).  We're currently using Kintex 7 devices on a few projects.  For example, the production device cost of a Kintex 7 480 device for us is about $900 in quantities of at least 1000 per year.  This price goes down as the device gets older.  The price to a small time company will probably be higher because their overall volume of all devices combined will be much lower.

However, based on this pricing Xilinx has shown us for the Virtex 7 devices, I would expect the low volume price of the V7 2000 device (their largest ever) to be at least $10,000 in low volume.  The low volume price for the largest V6 device right now is over 12k.  I'd guess once the V7-2000T finally goes in to production, even if you could get the deep discounts, you'd probably have to pay 3-5k each.

The other problem is that the bigger the devices get, the harder it is to get a good yield.  The huge V7 2000 is 2 to 4 (I forget the exact number) separate devices glued together.  The yields can prevent this chips from being produced in high volume, so supply can also be an issue in addition to price.  Usually these chips go to the biggest customers first, since they are the most important accounts.

I believe that the best we can hope for from FPGAs is to find the sweet spot in price/performance and use multiple devices.  This is how all the FPGA mining products are setup today.  I believe that the price/performance ratio won't get much better than what is available from the FPGA mining solutions today.

The Xilinx hardcopy equivalent, easypath, costs $300k in upfront costs right off the bat for a %35 cost reduction over your current FPGA pricing...  So even this path can be difficult.

No trolling here. I respect this guy for what he stands for in the first place.

Forget about BFL and their "venture capitalists" and their 0% interest free loans that are totally unsecured.

What happens if the ASIC has a problem ? All BFL sheep lose their money ( I would so LOVE to see that and all the FPGA guys get back on track ).

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Hats off to you DiabloD3 !

At least he has the integrity to stand up and not fall for this BFL greed craze / speculation and their long con ...

Too bad not a lot of people / bond sellers are that honest.

And he has not abused any mod powers because I never saw any sticky on this subforum today.

Please stop trolling ... what do you have against DiabloD3 and why do all of you seem to love the BFL god so much

Seems that the money promised by BFL has corrupted most of the miners here. Will be a landfall when they fail to deliver, yet again. I will laugh my socks off !

Once you get spoiled by a MBP, you automatically think software company = great hardware!

Does Microsoft make the best software in the world?

I just had to, sorry.

Since when a software programmer can design hardware?

Does Microsoft make best computers in the world?

I never knew it was him that wrote DiabloMiner, I respect that program very much as it gives the best GPU mining performance. He obviously has skills, he can maybe he can design own hardware ?

The OP wrote DiabloMiner, and also the Diablo kernel for CGMiner. DMC sells mining bonds.

Who is Diablo Mining Company ? And why should i care ? 

Its categorical, the information he has already posted in his mining company thread, plenty of threads already contain speculation about ***.
There could be no other reason to post this thread and make it sticky other than by definition being a troll, then to be dishonest on top of it ....

Im not defending *** but I think for a mod to take this kind of action is a bit much.  Its not freedom of speech, its overuse of privileged mod status.
Hopefully, in the light of the threads being made non-sticky and no doubt other mods being informed, he learns from this err in judgment and is more appropriate in the future.

kind regards

Any bold statement of disapproval is likely to illicit a reaction.  You can't categorically label this kind of speech as trolling without giving up the fair right of publicly expressing disapproval.

I think people here are defining trolling in an overly vague way that is out of context.

The only problem here is that he used a mod account (and sticky was a bad idea - but I haven't seen proof).  

I smell brain fart...

Edit : Agree on :

Wow..


Agreed.

Can we get this moved here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=81.0

Or somewhere else besides the hardware forum?