Help me understand this China situation.
The Chinese government ruled that Bitcoin can not act as a currency?
Bitcoin cannot be used to purchase goods and services?
The exchanges can still operate but they cannot exchange for fiat because that is now illegal?
Haven't they just turned Bitcoin into Yu-Gi-Oh trading cards?
Topic: Did China just legalize Bitcoin, clarify regulation, for its free market use? - page 2. (Read 11160 times)
December 14, 2013, 05:08:56 PM
December 14, 2013, 04:47:38 PM
All of the analysis thus far and including my prior post, is myopic and ignores the ecosystem networking effects.
The Chinese will own 10s or 100s of $billions perhaps even $trillions of value stored in BTC. Do you really think the market is not going to respond and try to market something to that huge capital base?
For example, the Chinese could go on vacation abroad and spend their BTC.
Or they could buy and sell abroad over the internet, e.g. such as for their homes abroad or running business virtually abroad. Especially they become wealthy investing in BTC.
Also the anonymous altcoin comes along, they leverage their BTC into that.
China is desperate to grow the consumer share of their economy because as http://pettis.com has pointed out, their economy will collapse if they don't. Do you really think they will allow all that consumer business to go abroad? No. The wall is coming down. China is transforming.
Etc.....
China can't put the free market use of Bitcoin back in the bag.
The Chinese will own 10s or 100s of $billions perhaps even $trillions of value stored in BTC. Do you really think the market is not going to respond and try to market something to that huge capital base?
For example, the Chinese could go on vacation abroad and spend their BTC.
Or they could buy and sell abroad over the internet, e.g. such as for their homes abroad or running business virtually abroad. Especially they become wealthy investing in BTC.
Also the anonymous altcoin comes along, they leverage their BTC into that.
China is desperate to grow the consumer share of their economy because as http://pettis.com has pointed out, their economy will collapse if they don't. Do you really think they will allow all that consumer business to go abroad? No. The wall is coming down. China is transforming.
Etc.....
China can't put the free market use of Bitcoin back in the bag.
December 14, 2013, 03:24:50 PM
Romania was not built in a day.
December 14, 2013, 02:53:16 PM
So how are other businesses responding in China? Does anyone have any info on that? Can a business accept bitcoin if they choose?
December 14, 2013, 02:10:39 PM
You can't use bitcoin to buy or sell anything in china. That is the important part.
December 14, 2013, 02:04:43 PM
Both answers are wrong because china haven't talked about bitcoin but about bitcoin as a currency and bitcoin as a commodity.
Care to explain your logic?
The document implied Bitcoin is legal as a commodity for use in the free market, and indicated the regulation thereof. Thus agreeing with the title and poll question of this thread. I see no logic in your sentence.
China said bitcoin is legal to trade as a commodity in online exchanges.
China said bitcoin is illegal to use as a currency in the market to buy products or services thats why baidu removed it immediately after the notice.
So bitcoin is not legal or illegal in china. Its a commodity and and not a currency in China so your poll is wrong anyway.
yep, but maybe you can still use it in "barter" transactions...
December 14, 2013, 02:02:27 PM
A note about that part:
Quote
Two years ago I
> read a NY Times article about extreme surveillance tactics by tax
> officials in Italy, they actually check receipts on all purchases and
> match them up to reported income. This is the type of extreme monitoring
> of ALL CONSUMPTION PATTERNS required in Technocracy.
Tax evasion is rampant in Italy. In Europe only Greece has a higher tax evasion rate. > read a NY Times article about extreme surveillance tactics by tax
> officials in Italy, they actually check receipts on all purchases and
> match them up to reported income. This is the type of extreme monitoring
> of ALL CONSUMPTION PATTERNS required in Technocracy.
December 14, 2013, 01:53:42 PM
December 10, 2013, 01:29:47 AM
China said bitcoin is illegal to use as a currency in the market to buy products or services thats why baidu removed it immediately after the notice.
The English translation of the document on Reddit (which I see was peer reviewed by those who understand Mandarin) does not say that.
The document says that financial institutions may not be directly involved with Bitcoin. It does not say that merchants may not accept commodity barter. Please stop being stupid.
The reason Baidu provided is they said they decided Bitcoin is too volatile. Clearly they knew it was volatile before they started accepting it, so they are lying and appear to me to be complicit in manipulating the value up and then down in a pump & dump (can you say "for profit").
So bitcoin is not legal or illegal in china. Its a commodity and and not a currency in China so your poll is wrong anyway.
My poll asks "Did China just legalize Bitcoin, clarify regulation, for its free market use?". That means is it now legal to use Bitcoin as commodity for speculation and trade in China. The answer is clearly "yes".
And you are showing yourself to be not very astute. My recollection is you've stated in past posts in other threads that you run a business online (easydns.com) so it is your best interest to be more careful about not showing yourself to be incompetent.
December 09, 2013, 07:38:32 PM
Both answers are wrong because china haven't talked about bitcoin but about bitcoin as a currency and bitcoin as a commodity.
Care to explain your logic?
The document implied Bitcoin is legal as a commodity for use in the free market, and indicated the regulation thereof. Thus agreeing with the title and poll question of this thread. I see no logic in your sentence.
China said bitcoin is legal to trade as a commodity in online exchanges.
China said bitcoin is illegal to use as a currency in the market to buy products or services thats why baidu removed it immediately after the notice.
So bitcoin is not legal or illegal in china. Its a commodity and and not a currency in China so your poll is wrong anyway.
December 09, 2013, 06:23:01 PM
From my private email:
Quote
Hope you don't mind if I quote you anonymously.
Also don't forget the raw milk fiasco in California in terms of the state micro-managing lives down to the private barter of healthy milk!
Also don't forget the raw milk fiasco in California in terms of the state micro-managing lives down to the private barter of healthy milk!
Quote
> I just finished looking over the bitcoin thread Did China Legalize
> Bitcoin.
> Some trivial input here on this comment
> You really never used craigslist type sites? So you think someone will
> knock on your door and ask you if you've been doing gardening plumbing or
> whatever for John Doe
> Within this last year I recall an AP article about a California law
> enforcement Craig's List sting operation where small independent
> landscapers were being charged with operating without a proper license or
> permit. The workers were just doing lawn mowing, etc. Two years ago I
> read a NY Times article about extreme surveillance tactics by tax
> officials in Italy, they actually check receipts on all purchases and
> match them up to reported income. This is the type of extreme monitoring
> of ALL CONSUMPTION PATTERNS required in Technocracy. The white papers
> are clear on this.
> I'm always amazed how myopic and gullible most people are.
> Bitcoin.
> Some trivial input here on this comment
> You really never used craigslist type sites? So you think someone will
> knock on your door and ask you if you've been doing gardening plumbing or
> whatever for John Doe
> Within this last year I recall an AP article about a California law
> enforcement Craig's List sting operation where small independent
> landscapers were being charged with operating without a proper license or
> permit. The workers were just doing lawn mowing, etc. Two years ago I
> read a NY Times article about extreme surveillance tactics by tax
> officials in Italy, they actually check receipts on all purchases and
> match them up to reported income. This is the type of extreme monitoring
> of ALL CONSUMPTION PATTERNS required in Technocracy. The white papers
> are clear on this.
> I'm always amazed how myopic and gullible most people are.
Quote
I don't see the article I read, the articles below mention a
variety of targets: painters, landscapers, etc.
http://boingboing.net/2013/09/19/sting-operations-on-people-ans.html
http://beforeitsnews.com/libertarian/2013/09/cslb-sting-operations-continue-to-defy-common-sense-2523954.html
variety of targets: painters, landscapers, etc.
http://boingboing.net/2013/09/19/sting-operations-on-people-ans.html
http://beforeitsnews.com/libertarian/2013/09/cslb-sting-operations-continue-to-defy-common-sense-2523954.html
December 09, 2013, 07:03:24 AM
There was upthread discussion about anonymity, well my oh my look what facebook is up to. 
And pleaassse don't give me that BS about the public ledger increasing transparency fairness.
Also China's currency just passed the Euro in international transaction use.
Appears someone wrote an article that copies my theme from my OP.
And pleaassse don't give me that BS about the public ledger increasing transparency fairness.
Also China's currency just passed the Euro in international transaction use.
Appears someone wrote an article that copies my theme from my OP.
December 08, 2013, 11:18:40 AM
OP has a good point (took him off my ignore list 
)
)china not only legalized bitcoins 100% they put it outside their tight currency controls!!! which is actually a REALLY REALLY good thing for today. there are many people who don't understand china and many people who can't quite grasp how good this news is for now! china treating it as a commodity for the time being is really great! now it will go on to surpass gold in terms of value. see you at the moon
The similar US document had quite a positive influence on price. But this time it seems a lot of people misunderstood. 
December 08, 2013, 01:37:40 AM
]
Dude, Anonymint's Dad is a lawyer. Get it? :-D
Dude, Anonymint's Dad is a lawyer. Get it? :-D
You make a fool of yourself for everyone to see.
You were the only one without the ignore in two pages 
, ruining the scenery.
, ruining the scenery. Enjoy the ignor(ing)ant bliss.
I make a fool of myself on purpose, for my own and other's amusement...
...you do it because you're a douchebag.
December 07, 2013, 10:50:42 PM
4) They won't put anyone in jail if BTC becomes big. If you can't fight them join them
You were doing good but that part of your argument isn't logical.
Puting people who use btc in jail is not only illogical but also improbable. Prisons are full already
Governments will have to one day recognize BTC if only enough people vote for it. We have democracy, right?
You assume that they need to put everyone in jail in order to incentivize all Bitcoin users to require the identity of everyone they buy from and sell to. I had already explained upthread that they only need to make a few example cases of a few Bitcoin users in order to cause most Bitcoin users to become scared and do what the government wants. Then they can put the stubborn ones in jail.
Now if you had a very strong anonymity in a coin, such that most users were confident their identity could not be discovered, then there is a greater chance the users will ignore the government, because most of them wouldn't be ending up in jail as an example to the rest.
December 07, 2013, 10:46:35 PM
Both answers are wrong because china haven't talked about bitcoin but about bitcoin as a currency and bitcoin as a commodity.
Care to explain your logic?
The document implied Bitcoin is legal as a commodity for use in the free market, and indicated the regulation thereof. Thus agreeing with the title and poll question of this thread. I see no logic in your sentence.
December 07, 2013, 10:31:48 PM
Please "analyze what it legally says", aside from the translations you provided, which state that it should not be treated like a currency, and can not be used as a currency, but rather as a speculation vehicle at their own risk.
Does china also say that their Yuan should not be treated like a currency, that purchases cannot be made with it like currency, and it is a speculation vehicle to be used at their own risk?
Does china also say that their Yuan should not be treated like a currency, that purchases cannot be made with it like currency, and it is a speculation vehicle to be used at their own risk?
My father once told me that a contract can't take advantage of any party, otherwise it is invalid. In other words, everything must be transparent, otherwise we can go to court.
You are assuming that the legal definition of a currency is that "all things on the market can only be purchased using currency and never with barter".
That is a patently false assumption.
The typical definition of legal tender has to do with finance not what merchants can accept:
Dude, Anonymint's Dad is a lawyer. Get it? :-D
You make a fool of yourself for everyone to see.
You were the only one without the ignore in two pages , ruining the scenery.
, ruining the scenery. Enjoy the ignor(ing)ant bliss.
December 07, 2013, 10:21:52 PM
If the bold part is your point I can only laugh.
But still that isn't the point. You would need to actually not be stubborn and take time to read and digest.
I guess you can't even read too.
And you still haven't realized that tangible things will become a very small percentage of the value being created in a knowledge economy. Duh.
And if you don't understand why that must be so, or how that impacts your points, then you need to read the linked thread, because I can't condense all of that explanation into a single sentence for you.
December 07, 2013, 05:37:16 PM
Oh crap another thread wasted by somebody trying to argue with AnnoyMint.
ps.
You, Panda! , out of the way:)
ps.
You, Panda! , out of the way:)
Want to take over, big brother? Lead the way!
You were the only one without the ignore in two pages
, ruining the scenery. 
December 07, 2013, 05:31:07 PM
I clicked "no" by mistake lol.
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