Topic: Did Satoshi think that quantum computers will exist? - page 7. (Read 1915 times)

Australia's Archer details first stage of room temp quantum chip success
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australias-archer-details-first-stage-of-room-temp-quantum-chip-success/

That's not an issue. Bitcoin developers have already post quantum solutions.
But there are lots of 'shalecoins', https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-as-shalecoin-5134441 coins with no owner. With quantum computers, these coins will become active and change the Bitcoin ecosystem.

His coins would be quantum secured, if he sent them to P2PKH addresses. But he did not and isn't doing.

We will get the answer with quantum computers. As soon as possible.

Satoshi had already thought of the quantum computers, and the possible decoding of the privatekeys if it became available, but I think, Satoshi as a programmer, he know that Bitcoin security will not stop developing and improving so he do not worry much about this stuff.

I do not know why people think that Bitcoin security will stop as is and too worried about quantum computers.  It maybe a threat but I am sure, Bitcoin developers will find way to level Bitcoin's security up before that happen.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-quantum-computing-party-hasnt-even-started-yet/
Professor Christopher Monroe:
The Quantum Computing Party Hasn’t Even Started Yet
But your company may already be too late
..
For ours and the other companies building quantum computers, it's an exciting time. It's taken decades of work to learn how to build working machines that can handle a few dozen quantum bits of information (qubits). It will take a few more years of engineering for us to build capacity in the hundreds of qubits, but I am confident we will, and that those computers will deliver on the amazing potential of quantum technology.

No, IBM’s Quantum Computer won’t break Bitcoin, but we should be prepared for one that can.
https://medium.com/the-quantum-resistant-ledger/no-ibms-quantum-computer-won-t-break-bitcoin-but-we-should-be-prepared-for-one-that-can-cc3e178ebff0


There is still no quantum solution in the Bitcoin network because..

Merit +++


But Bitcoin is about competition and best technology. That should be our task. The big money will come in post quantum.

The original chain will remain the strongest chain. If some groups can reproduce the privatekeys of 'shalecoins', it's their reward. They are trying to build a computer in the near future, that wouldn't be built so fast without that incentive. That opportunity accelerates the technology. If there are still some BTC owners with old addresses and remove their coins now, they will be secure. So it's a fair game.

The Bitcoin network is a pure competition network. Only the best technology will be successful here and make it secure. A Bitcoin fork without the old coins would be like another s**tcoin, because it would avoid real competition.

I'm sure it would be controversial, but I'm not so sure as to the degree. From what I can see, Bitcoin is still dominated by people who want to make money first and foremost, so I could see a move like this, which preserves their coins' value, garner a lot of support. There will be some pushback among purists, but how many really are there? Either way, I agree that the community should start drawing up some concrete solutions.

I'm personally in the camp who would prefer that lost coins be left where they are whether they're vulnerable or not, but I won't really mind if they get destroyed either, considering the scale of damage their theft may cause.

That means


and privatekeys are somehow within the blockchain = quantum computer?

You got it.

I have no idea and I just learned it from this thread. Those coins in Satoshi's wallet will then be activated which sooner there might not have forgotten coins after all. I guess we can all say Bitcoin will live on to be 21M in total. Nothings wasted and SAtoshi has really thought all of these will happen one day.

https://irishtechnews.ie/the-latest-quantum-computing-trends-from-5th-annual-conference-on-quantum-technologies-moscow/

Move your coins from old addresses to make them quantum secure.
'Shalecoins', coins with no owner ' https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-as-shalecoin-5134441 will be 'fracked' in the original chain.

Post quantum we will have lots of forks. But the quantum upgraded original chain with all the mined coins will be the strongest. Anyone who has the privatekey of an old address can now move their coins and they will be quantum secure. Otherwise they are 'shalecoins' and have no owner and will be 'fracked'. These coins are the reward of their 'frackers'. If some think that the 'shalecoins' should be locked/destroyed, they can use the fork with excluded 'shalecoins'. They are already discussing such things: Fork and Destroy Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fork-and-destroy-satoshis-1-million-bitcoin-5131393

Yes, squatter.
Quantum computers will surprise the Bitcoin community. The 'shalecoins' will be moved and will become active. Thereafter BTC owners will decide, which fork they want to use.

No quantum-resistant upgrade can retroactively protect vulnerable bitcoins. That's why we're "damned if you do, damned if you don't." Either way, there could still be millions of vulnerable bitcoins held on exposed public keys. The Satoshi coins, for example.

The only way to prevent those bitcoins from being stolen and re-added to the supply would be to lock/destroy them in a fork. For example, we could implement a fork where coins are destroyed if they aren't moved in n blocks -- a number of years down the road maybe. This would be extremely controversial.

Otherwise, the only thing we can do is soft fork in a new signature scheme (like Lamport) and have people voluntarily use it, like Segwit. No matter what, a decade is not such a long time. We should be discussing this stuff today.

https://securityboulevard.com/2019/08/the-race-is-on-crypto-agility-vs-quantum-computing-who-is-ahead/
Each passing day brings the world closer to the exciting reality of powerful quantum computing...
But one thing is foreseeable: along with this greater power, some of today’s foundational crypto algorithms will be broken by quantum computers, making data security in a post-quantum world a top concern...
And although post-quantum is projected to be a few years away, an enterprise must start planning today to be post-quantum ready...


a few years away... $ billions investments...

http://www.washdiplomat.com/PouchArticle/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=785
...Italy, he says, is “attached to the European initiative,” a 1 billion euro investment in quantum research. Other nations are pursuing similar initiatives. The United Kingdom, Japan and Australia have invested upward of $100 million per year in quantum information technology. In 2018, the United States’ National Quantum Initiative Act instituted a $1.2 billion investment into quantum information science. In doing so, the U.S. joined Canada, the European Union and China as a leader in world quantum investment, with respective commitments of over $1 billion.

maybe earlier:

They will develop new quantum technologies:

"Quantum computers will soon outperform classical machines"
"The project is part of the EU’s €1 billion, 10-year Quantum Flagship initiative to kickstart a competitive European industry in quantum technologies."
http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2019/07/01/quantum-computers-will-soon-outperform-classical-machines/
https://medium.com/the-quantum-resistant-ledger/no-ibms-quantum-computer-won-t-break-bitcoin-but-we-should-be-prepared-for-one-that-can-cc3e178ebff0

New quantum computing building block developed by Australian researchers
The quantum building block, which is capable of performing an operation of 0.8 nanoseconds, is around 200 times faster than existing spin-based two-qubit gates in silicon.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-07-19/quantum-computing-silicon-two-qubit-gate/11325424

Forget Qubits — Scientists Just Built a Quantum Gate With Qudits
And they could help usher in the era of the quantum computer.
https://futurism.com/forget-qubits-quantum-scientists-building-qudits

The research team discovered that four qudits had the same power as 20 qubits. What’s more, the qudits were more stable than the qubits.
https://canadianhomesteading.ca/science/quantum-computing-breakthrough-scientists-created-quantum-gates-using-qudits/11458


... and maybe a private group.

A quantum secure network / addresses are possible and not an issue. But what will happen to the 'shalecoins'?
Maybe some will say to burn them in the new quantum secure network, what would lead to a fork.
And some would still use the new quantum secure network with all the old coins.

And the Bitcoin ecosystem would be broken. The Bitcoin community should not allow this and we have to solve that problem now.
The best solution would be, somebody could move the 'shalecoins' to P2PKH addresses.

Thank you for this explanation. "We would have move to a more secured algorithm" is what I will take home as a word of hope.

A bit of a stale topic since even the most optimistic projections give us another decade before such a qc becomes a viable threat... And it is conceivable that Bitcoin would have upgraded significantly by then... Considering the developments of the last decade alone.

I do wonder if all that presumed upgrades would also be retrospective, it would have to be otherwise people who didn't update wallets would risk losing everything.

Hmmm... quantum proof private key cryptographic algorithms exist? As far as I understand there is no such thing?

Satoshi Nakamoto is a mathematician. I am a physicist. I had  a mathematics professor that could be compared with Satoshi Nakamoto. When bitcoin was invented in 2009, the quantum adventure was at its beginnings.

I made my PhD thesis on quantum wells (in 2000), in 2009 what was in my PhD thesis was learned in the QM in the 2nd year of faculty.  When bitcoin was invented no one could say that Quantum Computers will be invented in 10 years.

Thus, Satoshi Nakamoto did not think that quantum computers will exist when he invented the bitcoin.

This was discussed many times in the past.

He basically mined to a public key, which is slightly less secure than a Bitcoin address so its slightly easier to crack. So he didn't really worry about quantum computers back then.

Most likely if it reaches a point when Quantum computer "could" crack a public key and find the private key, then there will most likely be an upgrade to the network to prevent peoples funds from being stolen.

But from what I heard we are about 10 years away from this happening at the earliest.