Difficulty.....It can't keep going up 30% each increase.

empoweoqwj

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Quote from: traiz on December 26, 2013, 12:44:58 AM

There's still a limit on how much power a "residential" customer can draw.
Either they are limited by their breakers or limited by their electric utility's distribution system.

Personally, I expect knc's neptune to be at the limit of what someone can run as a hobby.

To go further, we either need more power efficient chips, the infrastructure to generate our own power, our look into co-location hosting

That's exactly what I've been saying, and exactly what will happen in 2014. Industrial-level mining.

traiz

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There's still a limit on how much power a "residential" customer can draw.
Either they are limited by their breakers or limited by their electric utility's distribution system.

Personally, I expect knc's neptune to be at the limit of what someone can run as a hobby.

To go further, we either need more power efficient chips, the infrastructure to generate our own power, our look into co-location hosting

empoweoqwj

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Quote from: knightcoin on December 25, 2013, 07:00:00 AM

Well, I think there are not much company in the world capable of build 28, 20 nm chips... track their sell invoices and you going to get an idea how much diff can grow in the future.

You are right. But they can build many many many of these chips - each new chip adds to the difficulty.

knightcoin

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Stand on the shoulders of giants

Well, I think there are not much company in the world capable of build 28, 20 nm chips... track their sell invoices and you going to get an idea how much diff can grow in the future.

porcupine87

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hm

Quote from: johnyj on December 18, 2013, 11:22:24 PM

Just compare these two scenarios:

1. 1 million users, each one running bitfury's USB miner, electricity can be ignored, 2GH per user, that is 2000T hash power

2. A big mining farm, 1000 machines, 2TH each , same total hash power, but the electricity and cooling cost, together with rent of the hosting location etc will cost them a fortune to mine coins. If the difficulty is enough high, sooner or later they will be forced to shutdown due to cost higher than mining income (they can simply buy coin instead of mine)

However, if the mining farm sold those 1000 machines to many customers, they will easily collect enough coins through their sale. But the miners who receive those 1000 machines might not be able to mine that amount of coins during its life time. This has become the norm in ASIC mining era, almost no one have ever get their bitcoin investment back by purchasing ASIC mining rigs

So it is always better to sell the mining rigs to millions of users, and this will also increase the decentralization of the network

How uses one USB-slot all the time for an USB-Miner, to mine maybe 10Cents a day. And who's computer is running 24/7?

empoweoqwj

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Quote from: atc1 on December 24, 2013, 09:41:00 AM

If this eventually ends up at it's logical end,it'll mean that industrial miners will own a large amount of bitcoin and it'll lose it's appeal. As stated earlier in this thread,if a transition like basement-programmers being put out by large companies,won't bitcoin become inherently useless? I mean,people buy games and other goods and services which are made by corporates because of their addition to one's quality of life. What value does bitcoin have going for it?

Not sure how you get from "How bitcoin is mined" to "what value does bitcoin have going for it?"

Its just the method of production. Consumers don't care where their coins came from. Neither do I really, as long as the network is protected. Do you know where your coins came from?

drewster

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Hehe.. that's actually kind of funny -- a cartel of sorts -- let's do like OPEC, and we'll all agree not to run more then 10 TH/s to make live easier for each other, and then we'll all cheat by selling our oil off-books .. er.., I mean running our extra hash through a separate pool from a different IP etc.. :-) -- I'm in!!

Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

it only keeps going up as more mining power is added. if people stop adding rediculous amounts of power to the pool then the difficulty will drop. there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

nairb131

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Quote from: BitCoin Operated Boy on December 23, 2013, 02:46:43 PM

Yes that was my presumption as you posted your reply shortly under my post. Anyway you are right. It doesn't matter

Also as to where all the new rigs are coming from:
BITMAIN shipped out a thousand or two of their AntMiners, they are going to be shipping out even more USB miners
btmine has some new ones in a groupbuy
people are still making rigs with the chips they bought.
Bitfury has miners in stock
ASICMiner is doing their thing and constantly adding to their own farm.

jojo69

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diamond-handed zealot

Quote from: atc1 on December 24, 2013, 09:41:00 AM

What value does bitcoin have going for it?

ummm

near instantaneous global transfer of value

no counterparty risk

decentralized transaction ledger secured by the most powerful computing effort ever achieved by humans

somewhat anonymous when used correctly

gee, I don't know...who would want that? Roll Eyes

piramida

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Quote from: atc1 on December 24, 2013, 09:41:00 AM

If this eventually ends up at it's logical end,it'll mean that industrial miners will own a large amount of bitcoin and it'll lose it's appeal.

Do you think there is any appeal in mining bitcoins using CPU? It's either you mine it on your cpu and nobody else knows about it, or it becomes a multibillion dollar industry and you don't mine it on your CPU anymore. Can't have both. It is and always was an arms race where the fastest came first and the rest would have been much better off just buying coins with the money wasted on hardware.

Moogle

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KUPO!

He may plan on having 15% of the networks hashing power but that will drop daily unless he keeps matching what other people are adding to it + 15%

CoinCidental

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Quote from: atc1 on December 24, 2013, 09:41:00 AM

What value does bitcoin have going for it?

come on ,not this shit again
if you cant see the value in the bitcoin network you should probably find another forum to troll on

atc1

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If this eventually ends up at it's logical end,it'll mean that industrial miners will own a large amount of bitcoin and it'll lose it's appeal. As stated earlier in this thread,if a transition like basement-programmers being put out by large companies,won't bitcoin become inherently useless? I mean,people buy games and other goods and services which are made by corporates because of their addition to one's quality of life. What value does bitcoin have going for it?

CoinCidental

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Si vis pacem, para bellum

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 24, 2013, 09:23:54 AM

Quote from: CoinCidental on December 24, 2013, 06:29:54 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 24, 2013, 06:00:53 AM

Quote from: CoinCidental on December 24, 2013, 01:14:48 AM

Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

it only keeps going up as more mining power is added. if people stop adding rediculous amounts of power to the pool then the difficulty will drop. there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

you should have a look at the mining facility he has built already in iceland near the artic circle
its pretty ingenious ,he uses the an air intake from the ice under the building to keep the machines cool
and he gets his power generated from cheap natural sources as well

seems to be a smart guy and he plans to build more of these in differnt parts of the world next year and
already got the funding for a new one in texas opening in feb

you should tell this guy about the "gentlemans agreement "
by febuary he plans to have 15% of the hashing power when he opens his new mining farms

http://ecreditdaily.com/2013/12/bitcoin-mining-iceland-hot-market-cooling-anytime/

Lots of miners plan to have 10% to 20% - it doesn't work out for any of them. Its called competition.

this dude is no ordinary miner
you should have a look at the mining facility he has built already in iceland near the artic circle
its pretty ingenious ,he uses the an air intake from the ice under the building to keep the machines cool
and he gets his power generated from cheap natural sources as well

seems to be a smart guy and he plans to build more of these in differnt parts of the world next year and
already got the funding for a new one in texas opening in feb

Cool. But 10% to 20% will be *serious* money in 2014, however cold your native land

i know

*serious* money ,cant wait

empoweoqwj

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Quote from: CoinCidental on December 24, 2013, 06:29:54 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 24, 2013, 06:00:53 AM

Quote from: CoinCidental on December 24, 2013, 01:14:48 AM

Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

it only keeps going up as more mining power is added. if people stop adding rediculous amounts of power to the pool then the difficulty will drop. there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

you should have a look at the mining facility he has built already in iceland near the artic circle
its pretty ingenious ,he uses the an air intake from the ice under the building to keep the machines cool
and he gets his power generated from cheap natural sources as well

seems to be a smart guy and he plans to build more of these in differnt parts of the world next year and
already got the funding for a new one in texas opening in feb

you should tell this guy about the "gentlemans agreement "
by febuary he plans to have 15% of the hashing power when he opens his new mining farms

http://ecreditdaily.com/2013/12/bitcoin-mining-iceland-hot-market-cooling-anytime/

Lots of miners plan to have 10% to 20% - it doesn't work out for any of them. Its called competition.

this dude is no ordinary miner
you should have a look at the mining facility he has built already in iceland near the artic circle
its pretty ingenious ,he uses the an air intake from the ice under the building to keep the machines cool
and he gets his power generated from cheap natural sources as well

seems to be a smart guy and he plans to build more of these in differnt parts of the world next year and
already got the funding for a new one in texas opening in feb

Cool. But 10% to 20% will be *serious* money in 2014, however cold your native land

CoinCidental

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Si vis pacem, para bellum

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 24, 2013, 06:00:53 AM

Quote from: CoinCidental on December 24, 2013, 01:14:48 AM

Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

it only keeps going up as more mining power is added. if people stop adding rediculous amounts of power to the pool then the difficulty will drop. there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

you should have a look at the mining facility he has built already in iceland near the artic circle
its pretty ingenious ,he uses the an air intake from the ice under the building to keep the machines cool
and he gets his power generated from cheap natural sources as well

seems to be a smart guy and he plans to build more of these in differnt parts of the world next year and
already got the funding for a new one in texas opening in feb

you should tell this guy about the "gentlemans agreement "
by febuary he plans to have 15% of the hashing power when he opens his new mining farms

http://ecreditdaily.com/2013/12/bitcoin-mining-iceland-hot-market-cooling-anytime/

Lots of miners plan to have 10% to 20% - it doesn't work out for any of them. Its called competition.

this dude is no ordinary miner
you should have a look at the mining facility he has built already in iceland near the artic circle
its pretty ingenious ,he uses the an air intake from the ice under the building to keep the machines cool
and he gets his power generated from cheap natural sources as well

seems to be a smart guy and he plans to build more of these in differnt parts of the world next year and
already got the funding for a new one in texas opening in feb

empoweoqwj

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Quote from: CoinCidental on December 24, 2013, 01:14:48 AM

Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

it only keeps going up as more mining power is added. if people stop adding rediculous amounts of power to the pool then the difficulty will drop. there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

you should tell this guy about the "gentlemans agreement "
by febuary he plans to have 15% of the hashing power when he opens his new mining farms

http://ecreditdaily.com/2013/12/bitcoin-mining-iceland-hot-market-cooling-anytime/

Lots of miners plan to have 10% to 20% - it doesn't work out for any of them. Its called competition.

piramida

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Borsche

Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

satoshi may be a genius but he really misjudged human nature there

not everyone is as unselfish as him. in fact, mostly everyone is not, such people are a rare exception. no gentlemen's agreement can ever work where money and more than two people are involved...

empoweoqwj

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Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

it only keeps going up as more mining power is added. if people stop adding rediculous amounts of power to the pool then the difficulty will drop. there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

Gentlemen's agreements? We aren't in the 19th century any more. Be nice if we were, but the Queensbury rules no longer apply.

CoinCidental

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Si vis pacem, para bellum

Quote from: Moogle on December 23, 2013, 06:33:41 PM

it only keeps going up as more mining power is added. if people stop adding rediculous amounts of power to the pool then the difficulty will drop. there were gentlemen's agreements proposed about things like this a while back. They go as far back as the transition from cpu to gpu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54

you should tell this guy about the "gentlemans agreement "
by febuary he plans to have 15% of the hashing power when he opens his new mining farms

http://ecreditdaily.com/2013/12/bitcoin-mining-iceland-hot-market-cooling-anytime/

Topic: Difficulty.....It can't keep going up 30% each increase. (Read 6100 times)