Topic: Digital goods section is a mess (Read 589 times)

That will never happen, did you not see this year's April Fool's joke? KYC is not the answer, and even if KYC was implemented, what would happen with the ID's of people who still scam/sell illegal things?

It will be a hard time for the admin to change that section. But it could be done somehow.

I suggest that users should join KYC in certain sections that has a lot of reported problems. Segregate some sections system in that localty and please apply KYC so we can trace track the transactions and everything that happen using tue block chain technology.

Exactly

 I think the mod should reorganize all of this.

I don't want the self-moderated feature to be removed as because of this feature, I could keep my thread clean else when I first tried to sell in that section, people started harassing me asking me to sell 60-70% below the market rate and then telling me I am wasting my time and trolling then. I am glad this feature helped me to keep the thread on-topic and I managed to sell my gift cards then. Same goes for Currency Exchange section. People sometimes start advertising their own product in our threads.

Once again you are taking on the view point of "I don't trade in gift cards, so fuck anyone who does because banning it makes more room". Everything would be so simple if everyone simply just did everything you like and nothing you don't like right? I agree many sections of the forum are a mess, but just picking things to ban one by one is not a solution.

There are a lot of people transparently selling gift cards fraudulently one way or another, be it the gift cards are non-existent, or the gift cards are a means to launder money, or some other fraud. I assume there are others selling gift cards fraudulently that is not transparent. Some portion of gift card sellers are doing so legitimately because they won the gift card from some contest, received it as part of a loyalty program, received it as a gift, received it via some promotion, received it as compensation for a poor customer experience, or purchased it from someone who received a gift card this way.

It is best to let individuals do their own research to determine who is selling fraudulent gift cards, and who is selling legitimately obtained gift cards. There may not be a clear line between the two, and individual users may have different risk tolerances. In cases in which it is clear illegal activity was done to obtain gift cards, the threads should absolutely be removed.

Almost every website has restrictions on gift card sales. It is fraud central. Why then is not a thing done to prevent scams and fraud?

More moderators isn't necessarily a complete fix

The lack of moderators is an easy fix.

As of October 21, 2017, if you are selling a KYC verified account, it is assumed to be hacked (and against the rules) unless you provide an explanation. This rule, could be extended to other types of items such as gift cards, or at a minimum, the seller could be required to attest he obtained the gift cards legally.

There are some legitimate reasons to sell a gift card below its face value, for example if you received it via a loyalty program or some kind of contest and you do not normally shop at the store. Some companies with very high profit margins are fast and loose with giving away credits as a way to get new business.

Despite the above explanations, it is my belief the majority of gift cards sold in the Digital Goods sub either do not exist (a scam attempt), or were somehow obtained illegally. 

There seem to be 2 problems regarding that. One is more mods are required, or the existing ones need to be more active.

The other problem is that apparently they consider something illegal (and therefore against the rules) only if there's absolutely no doubt. If there's a 99.99% of chances a thread is offering illegal goods then no action is taken because it's plausible the seller is just crazy and is selling at a loss. As a result the whole section is full of illegal items.

Both the trading of "illegal" gift cards and cracked/hacked accounts are against the rules, which you seem to acknowledge (?).

For some reason, it looks like there are no active moderators in the digital goods sub.

I would agree with you on this, that a general "digital goods" should be removed, and individual sub-sections placed under "goods" maybe? That way if someone wants to buy illegal gift cards, they can choose that sub-section, and if someone is actively looking for cracked accounts, they can choose the section for it. In general, the banning of illegal activity should be more strongly enforced.

After I read this thread (before I posted the first time), I reviewed the Invites & Accounts section, and this rule, and I saw many threads on the first couple pages breaking this rule. I created a thread about the problem but it doesn't appear anyone cares, I think because so few people actually read the Invites & Accounts sub.

Moving threads to their own subs would make it so most of the uninteresting threads would be mostly "hidden" from view to the majority of people who is not interested in these obvious scams/illegal activity. This would clear the way for more legitimate threads, in which actual non-illegal, non-scam attempt business can be conducted on the first couple of pages.

Adding multiple new child boards would only move the spammers and scammers into even more sections that the mods have to deal with to move all the crap back and forth.  Most of them don't care where they post or how many times they make the same post.  Making a RANK requirement of anything below senior member to post anything would only lead to even more bought and sold accounts. I agree with you that probably 90% of the threads are scams and/or illegally obtained cards. 

IMO the only  things that would partially mitigate the problem is to show full trust ranking to everyone most importantly those not logged in and allowing only SENIOR and above members to create locked and/or self-moderated threads.  Yes, it will lead to some more buying and selling of accounts and probably lots of shitposts to increase rank but would substantially decrease the volume of junk from users who create a new alt or 3 every day (or hour) to post their scam threads.

In theory making more sub-sections is a good idea but will put way more pressure on the mods to constantly shuffle things around and sometimes make very subjective decisions.

I've got a load of crypto domains that I'd like to sell for Bitcoin, but I've given up trying to sell them on Bitcoin Talk.

It's not only that. Auto-buy threads should simply not be allowed for lower ranked members. Locking threads should be final - no un-locking threads.

@TECSHARE's idea makes somewhat sense. Higher ranked members should be allowed to have autobuy threads and all that, while lower ranked members are restricted. Bumping rules are also none-existent.

A combination of rules must be implemented, one new change won't fix it all

Who gets to decide what "junk" is? This is very subjective, again going back to my point of judging features/offerings by the standard of the value they have for you personally only. Pointing out problems is easy, finding a viable solution that doesn't just create more problems is not so much. Perhaps what we need is a marketplace section which is limited to allow further ranked up members only to post there to escape the noise? This way at least you could see more legitimate/useful offerings and the nickel and dime stuff from the noobs is segregated to its own area where it can still be seen but will have less exposure comparatively.



Just continually removing features is not going to stop ignorant people form getting robbed. Self moderated threads/locking serve legitimate purposes of being able to control what is essentially a sales ad, not a discussion.

Anybody has any idea about the amount of transactions happens on that board? I always read the stories about someone got scammed there by "Autosell" link in the "Locked" thread.
Removing of the self -moderated thread should be done.
I am not against the thread locking but locked thread cannot be bumped for at least 2 days after unlocking.

Sellers should be encouraged to create a single thread for all related articles, I am currently seeing multiple threads by same seller for all closely related services.

That’s why I post my Bitmain hardware coupons in the computer hardware section where people appreciate them to be but mods always move them to digital goods.  

This is already against the rules:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hacked-invitesaccounts-are-not-allowed-1785577

I have noticed the Digital Goods, and the Invites subsection is almost entirely made up of transparent scams, or illegal items such as probable money laundering ("Dangerous Thread"). I checked several weeks ago and found nearly every thread in digital goods to be a Dangerous Thread on the first several pages.

I would be interested to see additional child boards such as: "gift cards" "domains" "betting/gambling bots (scripts)" "website templates (scripts)". I don't predict many interesting deals showing up even if the above types of threads are removed from the Digital Goods sub.

I don't think restricting access to digital goods would be healthy; the better solution would be to create a new section for all the junk. Every solution has pros/cons, it's just about which one will have the best end result. Goods isn't listed as "physical goods", and "invites & accounts" is classified as digital goods still.

The entire section of the marketplace needs a revamp to be honest - as unlikely as that is, the forum has grown to a point where its level of activity is becoming a problem in sections like these.

The self moderated threads were largely put in to place FOR the marketplace section because some users would use them to harass/troll people trying to trade legitimately. The logic being a sales ad does not necessarily need to be a conversation, and any fraudulent activity can be dealt with by rating, posting in scam/rep, or reporting forum abuses. The same goes for locking threads. It is a mistake to consider only the features valuable to you personally as the only valuable features, because that kind of thinking works both ways. I would suggest a rank requirement to post any digital goods. The only problem is, as it is now, people will try to post digital goods in other sections to get around this mess. About 80% of the posts I report in the goods section is stuff that belongs in digital goods currently, so there will be blow back to other sections as a direct result.

This is a mere assumption, but a very large percentage of gift cards/coupons are obtained illegitimately, or through questionable practices. Many are legitimate, but I would categorize it as one of the items that flood the section. Gift cards are generally a major player in money-laundering, carding, and other illegal practices. I'm not sure exactly where gift cards would fall, the lists I made were just my opinions anyways

I agree with you. Selling illegal things isn't allowed here on Bitcointalk. So we shouldn't see sales of cracked accounts, KYC documents, activation keys and similar things there. Seems that this section isn't moderated much.
But I don't agree with one your point - I don't see nothing wrong with low value stuff like gift cards, coupons. I don't think that we should create separate section for it. Main thing in improving digital goods section would be removing of illegal stuff.

How have I never noticed your threads? The last three are especially true. It's completely necessary, and I imagine the fix is extremely simple and won't take 5 minutes. Self-moderated threads should not ever be a thing, locking threads to unlock for a bump should not be a thing, and trust should always be visible. I'll visit your threads, the marketplace could be so much more active and efficient, as well as alot less scams happening if these simple changes are made.

Absolutely, a lot of things must be done there:

• Adding new subsections, as you propose. They could include: gift cards/coupons, domains/websites, scripts/templates/software, ...
• Better checking for items not on the right sections, too frequent bumps, illegal items, ... Maybe another moderator is required in addition to the existing ones.
• Showing trust to guests or requiring to register before visiting that section
• Disabling self-moderated threads and not allowing to unlock locked threads

I used to watch that board, not sure why.  I guess like you it was fascinating to see what digital goods were available, never tried to sell anything there except some crappy domain names.  For a while I would check that board everyday, but I got fed up with the sea of filth.

To an extent we have to put up with a wild west type environment, that's partially what crypto is about to begin with.  Don't expect the anarcho-capitalist who owns this place to do much about it. 

Side note: I am not a vendor there, and it's not in the personal interest of myself to profit more through any of these changes. I am a buyer if anything, and it is just as unpleasant to sift through the garbage, as it is to try and sell there.

Link to digital goods sub-forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=93.0

If you are reading this thread, please click the link above and take a look at the mess that is called "digital goods". I think this is an issue that must be brought up, because legitimate sellers with quality products are riddled under an ocean of semi-illegal codes, cracked accounts, and other things obtained illegitimately. From a quick glance at the section, there are some goods that definitely should not belong in the same section as others. Premium domains that sell for hundreds go unnoticed because of the all of the sellers selling items for cents/dollars.

I think that the best bet to clean up the section would be one of my two solutions:

1. Create a new sub-forum under "marketplace" for all of the spammy goods
2. Create a new sub-forum under the exiting digital goods, alongside "invites & accounts", for all spammy goods


I would define spam goods as:

1. Gift cards, claim codes, coupons, or codes of any sort of low value
2. Cracked accounts (the majority)
3. VCC/VBA/anything related
4. Activation keys
5. Betting scripts, mostly Bustabit ones

I would also create a definition for goods of higher quality:

- Domains and websites
- Website scripts and themes
- Social media related items
- Physical gift cards
- Anything else not listed as spam goods

Now that I've listed out my definitions, go back to the digital goods sub-forum and look at the percentage of spammy goods vs. higher quality goods. It is in my opinion that a change is necessary and beneficial for the marketplace. I would love to hear thoughts and maybe other solutions to sort out the mess. Thanks