[SCAM PREVENTION]Remove self-moderation for topics within the marketplace!

WillyAp

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Looking for guilt best look first into a mirror

Quote from: MiLkz on February 11, 2018, 12:46:33 PM

**UPDATE: Sent PM to theymos on 2/19.

There should not be many downsides to removing the self-moderation options for the lower user groups within certain marketplace sections.

What do you think?

The link to the escrow services should be prominently encrusted into those postings/offers.
From there on your responsabilty is void.

TECSHARE

legendary

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: MiLkz on October 03, 2019, 09:03:35 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 03, 2019, 10:30:39 AM

Unfortunately even flags get abused. I am not fond of the idea of basing forum usage rights to the trust system, it is too heavily abused.

True, there is no easy solution, but what about eliminating it for just Newbies and Jr. Members which are 99% of the time the people who abuse it.

I would consider that a reasonable compromise.

MiLkz

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 03, 2019, 10:30:39 AM

Unfortunately even flags get abused. I am not fond of the idea of basing forum usage rights to the trust system, it is too heavily abused.

True, there is no easy solution, but what about eliminating it for just Newbies and Jr. Members which are 99% of the time the people who abuse it.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: MiLkz on October 03, 2019, 10:22:07 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 03, 2019, 10:18:28 AM

Seems simple doesn't it? Limiting it to ranking members might be a solution, but your other metric would mean I wouldn't qualify to use self moderated threads. Because of an abusive negative rating by Vod for criticizing his behavior, by your metric I would be excluded in spite of my 8 years of trade history here.

No, one negative would not be enough. It would be like those new flags for scammers, where you need the support of multiple users. The user would have to be "red" and have received multiple negatives by DT users in order to lose the self-mod ability.

Sorry for not explaining properly Grin

Unfortunately even flags get abused. I am not fond of the idea of basing forum usage rights to the trust system, it is too heavily abused.

MiLkz

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Activity: 620

Merit: 300

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 03, 2019, 10:18:28 AM

Seems simple doesn't it? Limiting it to ranking members might be a solution, but your other metric would mean I wouldn't qualify to use self moderated threads. Because of an abusive negative rating by Vod for criticizing his behavior, by your metric I would be excluded in spite of my 8 years of trade history here.

No, one negative would not be enough. It would be like those new flags for scammers, where you need the support of multiple users. The user would have to be "red" and have received multiple negatives by DT users in order to lose the self-mod ability.

Sorry for not explaining properly Grin

TECSHARE

legendary

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: MiLkz on October 03, 2019, 08:34:37 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 01, 2019, 10:57:46 AM

This is something that has been discussed ad nauseam in the past. We shouldn't be stripping down features of the forum when the trust system, report to moderation, and making your own threads are more than sufficient. I was around before this feature existed. To this day a similar problem sill exists, and to a lesser extent still does, of users trolling the marketplace posts for their own amusement or to target certain members and prevent them from trading legitimately, then claiming they are simply warning people of XYZ for example and cry censorship when they're asked to stop. They may also object to the specific good being offered and do their best to prevent it from being traded, leaving the seller with few options to trade legitimately.

This might not seem like a big deal to those who don't sell in the section or only do so occasionally, but it really doesn't take much to turn people off of a sale. Most buying habits are compulsive, so a little thing like one guy making up some bullshit is possible to stop the vast majority of sales. Self moderation exists in those sections for good reason.

I understand. That's why we can either limit certain user groups or, even better, keep allowing it for everyone except those that have/get negative red trust.

Seems simple doesn't it? Limiting it to ranking members might be a solution, but your other metric would mean I wouldn't qualify to use self moderated threads. Because of an abusive negative rating by Vod for criticizing his behavior, by your metric I would be excluded in spite of my 8 years of trade history here.

MiLkz

sr. member

Activity: 620

Merit: 300

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 01, 2019, 10:57:46 AM

This is something that has been discussed ad nauseam in the past. We shouldn't be stripping down features of the forum when the trust system, report to moderation, and making your own threads are more than sufficient. I was around before this feature existed. To this day a similar problem sill exists, and to a lesser extent still does, of users trolling the marketplace posts for their own amusement or to target certain members and prevent them from trading legitimately, then claiming they are simply warning people of XYZ for example and cry censorship when they're asked to stop. They may also object to the specific good being offered and do their best to prevent it from being traded, leaving the seller with few options to trade legitimately.

This might not seem like a big deal to those who don't sell in the section or only do so occasionally, but it really doesn't take much to turn people off of a sale. Most buying habits are compulsive, so a little thing like one guy making up some bullshit is possible to stop the vast majority of sales. Self moderation exists in those sections for good reason.

I understand. That's why we can either limit certain user groups or, even better, keep allowing it for everyone except those that have/get negative red trust.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

This is something that has been discussed ad nauseam in the past. We shouldn't be stripping down features of the forum when the trust system, report to moderation, and making your own threads are more than sufficient. I was around before this feature existed. To this day a similar problem sill exists, and to a lesser extent still does, of users trolling the marketplace posts for their own amusement or to target certain members and prevent them from trading legitimately, then claiming they are simply warning people of XYZ for example and cry censorship when they're asked to stop. They may also object to the specific good being offered and do their best to prevent it from being traded, leaving the seller with few options to trade legitimately.

This might not seem like a big deal to those who don't sell in the section or only do so occasionally, but it really doesn't take much to turn people off of a sale. Most buying habits are compulsive, so a little thing like one guy making up some bullshit is possible to stop the vast majority of sales. Self moderation exists in those sections for good reason.

MiLkz

sr. member

Activity: 620

Merit: 300

Quote from: tmfp on October 01, 2019, 10:31:12 AM

It's not unknown for scammers to buy high ranking accounts if they see the need for one.
Generally I'm against the current apparent policy of "perks" for seniority, merit accumulators etc. It seems logical but it encourages a 'them and us' scenario that can deter genuine new users and also is easily corrupted because of the ease of account selling.
I think I've only ever started one self modded thread and that was way back, when I needed specific answers to a specific question and wanted to be able to delete signature spam.

No doubt I would like to remove it completely, but its been over a year since I made this thread. I am willing to take anything at this point...haha

In the main post, I also suggested the removal of self-moderation for anyone with negative trust, so rank will not matter. If someone buys a legendary account and gets tagged, there goes their ability to self-mod.

tmfp

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"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

Quote from: MiLkz on October 01, 2019, 09:46:50 AM

I would like to remove self-mod completely, but I myself do use it in rare occasions. I currently have a thread self-modded to prevent the scammers I go after from posting. Regardless, in this thread I am proposing the removal of self-mod for users below senior level(maybe full). So the users who should be using it properly are left with the ability to do so, like you, philipma1957.

This seems to be the best compromise.

It's not unknown for scammers to buy high ranking accounts if they see the need for one.
Generally I'm against the current apparent policy of "perks" for seniority, merit accumulators etc. It seems logical but it encourages a 'them and us' scenario that can deter genuine new users and also is easily corrupted because of the ease of account selling.
I think I've only ever started one self modded thread and that was way back, when I needed specific answers to a specific question and wanted to be able to delete signature spam.

MiLkz

sr. member

Activity: 620

Merit: 300

I would like to remove self-mod completely, but I myself do use it in rare occasions. I currently have a thread self-modded to prevent the scammers I go after from posting. Regardless, in this thread I am proposing the removal of self-mod for users below senior level(maybe full). So the users who should be using it properly are left with the ability to do so, like you, philipma1957.

This seems to be the best compromise.

tmfp

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Merit: 1737

"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

Quote from: philipma1957 on October 01, 2019, 08:11:48 AM

Quote from: tmfp on September 30, 2019, 05:11:46 PM

....Self moderation is an anachronism and should be completely removed from the forum.

So not being able to delete posts like the one below is what you want?

“Fuck you die you mofo. Btw his address is available via a pm”

Posted by a newbie with nothing to lose.

I understand, but I'd have thought that a report to moderator for an insubstantial post would be just as useful in cases like that.

Quote

A self mod when properly used is a good tool.
I self mod almost every single thread I make.
And if I do delete a post I quote the post. Unless it is a post like the fake one in quotes above.
If you look at most threads I do I don’t have to self mod or delete much . I like to think it is because people know i will mod it fairly.

You agree that you don't have to self mod much.
That's my point, for every one of you using the self mod facility responsibly but actually needing it only occasionally, there's many others abusing it to project a false image of their threads and of the claims in them as being unquestioned and uncontested.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: tmfp on September 30, 2019, 05:11:46 PM

Quote from: nomadcrypto on December 30, 2018, 08:24:39 AM

I think the reasons cited for self moderation in those boards is a lot like the informal logical fallacy "overextend outrage". Overextend outrage is a form of poor statistical thinking where one or more statistically rare cases are implied to be the norm or the trend (without evidence). While that is not the full description/definition and this isn't a perfect match it is close. The number of unmoderated threads far outweigh the self moderated threads and instances of trolling are fairly rare. The number of self moderated threads started by scammers is much higher than the number of trolling incidents in those boards. Basically I just dont buy that argument

This I agree with.
Self moderation is an anachronism and should be completely removed from the forum.

So not being able to delete posts like the one below is what you want?

“Fuck you die you mofo. Btw his address is available via a pm”

Posted by a newbie with nothing to lose.

A self mod when properly used is a good tool.
I self mod almost every single thread I make.
And if I do delete a post I quote the post. Unless it is a post like the fake one in quotes above.

If you look at most threads I do I don’t have to self mod or delete much . I like to think it is because people know i will mod it fairly.

tmfp

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 1737

"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

Quote from: nomadcrypto on December 30, 2018, 08:24:39 AM

I think the reasons cited for self moderation in those boards is a lot like the informal logical fallacy "overextend outrage". Overextend outrage is a form of poor statistical thinking where one or more statistically rare cases are implied to be the norm or the trend (without evidence). While that is not the full description/definition and this isn't a perfect match it is close. The number of unmoderated threads far outweigh the self moderated threads and instances of trolling are fairly rare. The number of self moderated threads started by scammers is much higher than the number of trolling incidents in those boards. Basically I just dont buy that argument

This I agree with.
Self moderation is an anachronism and should be completely removed from the forum.

MiLkz

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Still a major problem. Giving negative trust is not enough to stop their scams.

petahasher

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I'll give you another bump, self-moderation is damaging. Legitimate sellers don't ever need to use it, all information should be open and transparent!

mikeywith

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be constructive or S.T.F.U

it's been so long, and nothing yet. let us just keep Bumping this thread every now and then, hopefully one day theymos will make it happen.

nomadcrypto

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I think the reasons cited for self moderation in those boards is a lot like the informal logical fallacy "overextend outrage". Overextend outrage is a form of poor statistical thinking where one or more statistically rare cases are implied to be the norm or the trend (without evidence). While that is not the full description/definition and this isn't a perfect match it is close. The number of unmoderated threads far outweigh the self moderated threads and instances of trolling are fairly rare. The number of self moderated threads started by scammers is much higher than the number of trolling incidents in those boards. Basically I just dont buy that argument

Mpamaegbu

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Once a man, twice a child!

Quote from: bill gator on April 12, 2018, 10:01:36 PM

Quote from: BTCforJoe on April 12, 2018, 05:45:01 PM

Seriously, why is self-moderation still a thing in the marketplace boards?
Has anyone brought up any valid points as to why anyone would need self-moderation in these boards?

Without a little bit of clarification I am unsure if I'm understanding the question right. Are you speaking in general, or are you speaking about newbies/lower-ranking members? Earlier in this thread and in the thread that preceded this discussion I had brought up a bunch of what I believe to be valid reasons for self-moderation on those boards.

This problem/situation still persists till date. Honestly, I don't know why this hasnt been nipped till now. Apart from people getting easily scammed by these Newbie OPs, self moderation threads are autocratic and dictatorial. We are trying to make the world a democracy for crying out loud!

MiLkz

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Quote from: Pffrt on December 28, 2018, 04:24:02 AM

True but it works quite opposite too. People may start trolling there too. You need to clean up the posts. Lots of people spam those sections too and self moderate thread helps to clean them.

That is why we have it limited to only certain user groups.

I am glad this is still being discussed..

Topic: [SCAM PREVENTION]Remove self-moderation for topics within the marketplace! (Read 20905 times)