Topic: Distributed Autonomous Society - page 2. (Read 3027 times)

The GE system is decentralized, each turbine, component, terminal, is connecting and talking to each other as they require information according to access to communications; Currently all that information is only going to GE, but it is structured so that each component is self-aware and offloads what it can't understand to central GE servers and Data Scientists or other components.

I am glad we are beginning to explore this idea.

Yes, a DAM would prove the concept quite well. I was thinking to fully decentralize the concept of a DAG to somehow provide services globally like a business digitally. But of course I must consider the physical geography of people and their real world concerns: People like to be close to like minded people.

My Brainstorming is to provide a total solution: I consider the reality of the natural world in which we live in that provides multiple answers to a myriad of questions. Life feeds on Life for access to resources... in a fully imagined future I can imagine that Evolution will not stop at the physical level but follow us into the Digital. We are already at the mercy of aptly named viruses, worms, trojans; It is good to have a healthy digital immune system. It is only a matter of time before truly self-evolving digital life will make the migration back to us... to the real world.

The world is complex, hence the conflict we see in the world is a result of Miscommunication, Irrationality, Impatience, Ignorance, Misinformation, Ambition, Malice, Desperation, Disrespect, and Envy; It is not too much of a leap to think that these digital life-forms will one day acquire these attributes against individuals, groups, and organisations. So I think of the necessary defense required to hold on to what we believe and cherish, but considerate enough to change and react appropriately in case some day you decide to cycle across the African Savannah the drones will simply scare away the lions because that is the appropriate response.

Michael Rimmer? oh man that is hilarious. We must confuse the masses to give them Freedom! lol I figure that is what this is all about trying to figure out how to provide essential services for all globally in a efficient, effective manner.

edit: on further thought I can imagine how what you are proposing could work: the thought of a DAM is similar to the idea of a Charter City with it's own laws. Establish a Charter City, run it like a DAM and interface it with the DAG to handle both the conceptual and physical aspects of governance.

We can build this now. The Venus Project can be our model of assembling the Municipality.

We must proceed to the next logical step: We must develop the Digital Messiah.

Agricultural output:
 Every Farm animal grown must have their DNA sequenced at birth to function as a hash for the blockchain to follow it's path through the Food Supply. Plant and vegetable yields are monitored in real time as they are sown, reaped and distributed to suppliers and markets, supplies used to grow them are marked in the chain for consumer inspection.

Industrial output:
 Using General Electrics Industrial Internet of things we can monitor how the machines are working and how much they are producing, this system is ideal for automated factories, energy grids, robots, etc.

Transportation:
 Monitoring the flow of goods and consumables across the world in real time, with all vital historical data concerning it's transportation.

Weather monitoring:
 Transcribing the real weather as it happens and applying all known weather forcasting algorithms to them for easy visualization onto the blockchain.

Waste management:
  monitoring the input to landfills and recycling plants, water works, etc to see how much waste is being recycled or how much is ending up in our stream.

Scientific Monitoring Stations:
  Monitoring water levels, pollution, ocean currents, radiation, and any other form of telemetry data onto the blockchain to see exactly what is happening to our environment.

Once vital Data is openly available for all we can begin to write the business contracts: Value Exchange. These contracts would be the beginning; the outcome of these contracts would be written onto it's own blockchain by which it's history could be verified. They would delineate asset exchange information in an automatic fashion tracking the history of Goods and Services.

and that's it, anymore would require the Blockchain system to have a stronger following, access to resources, services etc because what is the government after all? It is simply a system by which we put a  % of our resources into a blackbox for allocation into various services for a broad category of individuals.

Many of these services are strictly necessary, they can't be optional because of peoples tendency to subvert the system.

Accreditation: OpenBadges will solve this one.
Contract dispute resolution: well thought out smart contracts should resolve this.
Personal Security & Defence: foreign and domestic defense to overwhelm any force trespassing against ones rights & security.
Judicial Compliance: Have to make sure everyone is honest and complying with regulations.
Global Monitoring: The Blockchain can help us with this, but not if individual producers or cartels are manipulating the data.
Health & Safety: It's always nice that there is someone out there looking out for your health regardless of situation.
 
The Decentralized aspect of the DAG is that it could potentially watch out for you in all these respects as necessary like a Global Insurance. for example: if you are in a different country and have paid your dues you have access to Medical services, Search & Rescue, Legal Defense, PMC backing, Scientific analysis services, Criminal investigation services, etc all services that you pay your taxes for would be immediately available regardless of Age, Sex, Nationality, Religion, etc in essence every member would be fully backed by the DAG. All these services once executed would be marked on the blockchain to maintain a historical record, in case something happens to you, the investigators would transcribe what happened to you on the blockchain.

Resolving these last vestiges of the DAG would require technology we have but is not fully developed.
Health monitoring sensors embedded onto a person to diagnose your health.
Personal safety drones that can be securely regulated to monitor your safety and security directly by you... think of it as your smart phone with a neuromorphic chip helping your digital assistant keep you safe. Think of Halo, where the AI points out that there is a gun pointed at OUR head, because it is part of you.
Armed Military Security Drones to help keep you safe in remote regions and if necessary keep investigators safe to determine who or what got you.
Automatic assembly and deployment of Global sensors to fill gaps in Citizens knowledge.

and others that require Star Wars level of technology a good 15 years worth of development or serious policy development.

I get what the DAG allows you to do, but I don't believe that the majority of individuals will vote for privacy when someone with an agenda is telling them (for example) that privacy will get their kids raped, and a DAG doesn't get rid of people with agendas spreading FUD.  To put it another way, I'm saying that I believe people are still going to want law enforcement and law enforcement is still a corrupting form of power where corrupted people with agendas are going to point out that they need to be able to see all the central information discussed in the post I was originally responding to without permission in order to protect voters and their children.  My view is simply that people will cave in to their fears and allow things like that even when given direct voting rights.  That isn't to say that a DAG wouldn't be far better and resolve a lot of problems today's governments have, it's simply to say that such a system wouldn't be anywhere near the utopia the post I responded to was suggesting it would be and that we still need to protect our individual rights and not make it easier for the right villain to force us to give them up.

Nah! You just didn't get what DAG allow you. People won't vote for candidates, DAG allow people to directly in real-time propose law, vote law, enhance law. Your state of mind is obviously normal as you're used to hear that the best political experience of your life is to put a ballot. As we never experienced direct voting our law we can speculate on pros and cons, but hows about prototyping such an App? That's my core message with the creation of this topic!

Re-read my entire post.  I didn't say we should put a halt to our development, I didn't say we shouldn't have a DAG, and I didn't suggest that anyone shouldn't be able to vote.  I simply stated that even with a DAG, fear and money will rule the day and our rights will continue to be stripped.  Because it wasn't clear, I will also point out that my comments regarding stupid people were meant to refer to people in groups / the masses / sheeple.  It was not meant to refer to a majority of individuals or allude that only individuals outside of that majority should have a say in their lives.

People vote as a collective now. Few parties have the money to campaign/advertise, those that do affect the collective to a greater or lesser degree. Many decisions if presented correctly with enough information are easily decided upon. It doesn't need a degree in rocket science. To suggest that human beings are all too stupid to make decisions governing policy means you may just as well chuck democracy out of the window all together... because people are too stupid to vote.So circular logic is the order of the day is it? Let's forget about progress because stupid people prevent progress and we'll only go backwards anyway so better not to bother in the first place. With that attitude, we might as well all live in dictatorships with Daddy-Director guiding our every decisions (as we do now) because we're too stupid to make them.

One moment while I prostrate myself to the superior intellects of the ruling classes.

Elitism and arrogance of assumption about people's intelligence and ability to make valid choices about their life and country is the beginning and end of fascism. Control the sheep, for they know not where they go.

Millions have died for the freedom of choice and sanctity of human rights and individuality over hundreds/thousands of years that we now have, and you'd like to put a halt to its natural development? Because people are stupid.

Maybe with a DAG setup in place, peoples' seeming apathy about politics wouldn't be such a problem to good governance. Right now, since many people don't vote for various reasons, at least in the developed world, lack of civic participation is a big problem. Maybe DAGs could make that less problematic somehow.

Almost everything that I write publicly is about technical details in software or aerospace, and the points are usually not very contentious.  I’m going to go out on a limb today and talk about a much more banal topic -– government.  This is sort of an open letter to my mother and stepfather, who are intelligent people, but we don’t see eye to eye on political issues.  A couple brief conversations a year during visits doesn’t really establish much, and I have wanted to make a more carefully considered set of points.
 
I had nearly disqualified myself from discuss politics by not bothering to cast a vote for almost 20 years after I was legally able to.  I was busy.  I paid millions of dollars of taxes without any dodges, and just focused on my work.  Listening to political speeches full of carefully calculated rhetoric is almost physically painful to me, and I diligently avoided it.
 
A couple things slowly brought me around to paying more attention.  A computer game company doesn’t need to have much to do with the government, but a company that flies rocket ships is a different matter.  Due to Armadillo Aerospace, in the last decade I have observed and interacted with a lot of different agencies, civil servants, and congressmen, and I have collected enough data points to form some opinions.  The second thing that has changed for me is becoming a father; with two young sons, I think more about how the world might look in twenty or thirty years when they are adults.
 
I am an optimist on almost all fronts.  Throughout history, there have always been those that argue that the world is going to hell, yet here we are, better off than any previous generation.  Not only are things pretty damn good, but there is a lot of positive inertia that makes it likely that things will continue to  improve for quite some time.  We aren’t balanced at a precipice, where the result of any given election can pitch us into darkness.
 
However, trends do matter.  Small, nearly painless losses accumulate over the years, and the world can slowly change into something you don’t want while you weren’t paying attention.  It doesn’t take a cataclysmic crash, just a slow accretion of over regulation, taxation, and dependency that chokes the vibrant processes that produce wealth and growth.  Without growth, you get a zero sum game of fighting over the pie that breeds all sorts of problems in government and society.
 
My core thesis is that the federal government delivers very poor value for the resources it consumes, and that society as a whole would be better off with a government that was less ambitious.  This is not to say that it doesn’t provide many valuable and even critical services, but that the cost of having the government provide them is much higher than you would tolerate from a company or individual you chose to do business with.  For almost every task, it is a poor tool.
 
So much of the government just grinds up money, like shoveling cash into a wood chipper.  It is ghastly to watch.  Billions and billions of dollars.  Imagine every stupid dot-com company that you ever heard of that suckered in millions of dollars of investor money before leaving a smoking crater in the ground with nothing to show for it.  Add up all that waste, all that stupidity.  All together, it is a rounding error versus the analogous program results in the government.  Private enterprises can’t go on squandering resources like that for long, but it is standard operating procedure for the government.
 
Well, can’t we make the government more efficient, so they can accomplish its tasks for less, or do more good work?  Sure, there is room for improvement everywhere, but there are important fundamental limits.  It is entertaining to imagine a corporate turnaround expert being told to get the federal house in shape, but it can’t happen.  The modern civil service employment arrangement is probably superior to the historic jobs-as-political-spoils approach, but it insulates the workforce from the forces that improve commercial enterprises, and the voting influence of each worker is completely uncorrelated with their value.  Without the goal and scorecard of profit, it is hard to even make value judgments between people and programs, so there are few checks against mounting inefficiency and abject failure, let alone evolution towards improvement.
 
Even if you could snap your fingers and get it, do you really want a razor sharp federal apparatus ready to efficiently carry out the mandates of whoever is the supreme central planner at the moment?  The US government was explicitly designed to make that difficult, and I think that was wise.
 
So, the federal government is essentially doomed to inefficiency, no matter who is in charge or what policies they want it to implement.  I probably haven’t lost too many people at this point – almost nobody thinks that the federal government is a paragon of efficiency, and it doesn’t take too much of an open mind to entertain the possibility that it might be much worse than you thought (it is).
 
Given the inefficiency, why is the federal government called upon to do so many things?  A large part is naked self interest, which is never going to go away -- lots of people play the game to their best advantage, and even take pride in their ability to get more than they give.
 
However, a lot is done in the name of misplaced idealism.  It isn’t hard to look around the world and find something that you feel needs fixing.  The world gets to be a better place by people taking action to improve things, but it is easy for the thought to occur that if the government can be made to address your issue, it could give results far greater than what you would be able to accomplish with direct action.  Even if you knew that it wasn’t going to be managed especially well, it would make up for it in volume.  This has an obvious appeal.
 
Every idealistic cry for the government to “Do Something” means raising revenue, which means taking money from people to spend in the name of the new cause instead of letting it be used for whatever purpose the earner would have preferred.
 
It is unfortunate that income taxes get deducted automatically from most people’s paychecks, before they ever see the money they earned.  A large chunk of the population thinks that tax day is when you get a nice little refund check.  Good trick, that.  If everyone was required to pay taxes like they pay their utilities, attitudes would probably change.  When you get an appallingly high utility bill, you start thinking about turning off some lights and changing the thermostat.  When your taxes are higher than all your other bills put together, what do you do?  You can make a bit of a difference by living in Texas instead of California, but you don’t have many options regarding the bulk of it.
 
Also, it is horribly crass to say it, but taxes are extracted by the threat of force.  I know a man (Walt Anderson), who has been in jail for a decade because the IRS disagreed with how his foundations were set up, so it isn’t an academic statement.  What things do you care strongly enough about to feel morally justified in pointing a gun at me to get me to pay for them?  A few layers of distance by proxy let most people avoid thinking about it, but that is really what it boils down to.  Feeding starving children?  The justice system?  Chemotherapy for the elderly?  Viagra for the indigent?  Corn subsidies?
 
Helping people directly can be a noble thing.  Forcing other people to do it with great inefficiency?  Not so much.  There isn’t a single thing that I would petition the federal government to add to its task list, and I would ask that it stop doing the majority of the things that it is currently doing.  My vote is going to the candidates that at least vector in that direction.

Thing is, I believe it's a totally new thing that doesn't really have legs yet. But if the truth be told, I personally think it's the only reasonable way forward for the developed world. Other countries will follow, but much later. I write science fiction so to me it seems perfectly reasonable.

Democracy actually doesn't exist in the sense it was supposed to. We realistically have a choice of just three parties that no matter in the U.S, U.K or western Europe represent the left, right or liberal, these parties pander to the large corporations and must make decisions that are for their benefit after they get into office. These large corporations aren't stupid, they bankroll all of the top three, which is why our nations end up at the wrong end of wars and corps.

the top three then (due to propaganda) are seen as the only viable choices and so therefore receive the lions share of the votes.

I don't think that's great but I also don't see it as the end of the world. Western nations still have a multitude of human rights laws in place that make our lives vastly better than many people living under dictatorships. If you don't believe that's the case, try living in those countries. You'll soon change your mind.

But...

Let's be honest. We don't have any choices after they are elected into office. They do what they want for three years and six months and then suddenly, they are all super nice and useful in the lead up to the election... and we all get collective amnesia about all the crap they did before.

Twenty plus years ago there was no alternative, now, there is. There is no reason why every country's citizen can't have an app or visit a website that gives them a choice as to which areas their tax dollars go to (connected to their ID/NI number/passport), or which major decisions are made with a click of a button. The block chain makes this entirely possible, Counterparty already has this voting system in place with tokens.

There is an arrogance to politics that says the populace are too stupid to make decisions for their own country, but the education level of most developed nations actually speaks of a different reality. We know what we want, it's just no one listens to us.

DAG is not only fair, it is perhaps the only 'truly' democratic decision/development that should be the next step forward for humanity as a whole.

Let's be realistic, we don't want our countries to fall flat on their faces, so we are not going to stop taxation any time soon, but it is our right to decide where our money goes, and national policy.

Do we really need politicians who do not recognize our wishes nor follow through on them?

It is simply a matter of time, the layers are being assembled.

If the Bitcoin network makes it impossible to steal funds then the avenue of attack would be to rob the individual directly, to avoid that a security blockchain with sensor integration(cameras, microphones, Facial recognitiona, A.I) can see the robbery in action and record the tresspass forever on the blockchain; bypass that by doing these actions anonymously, countered by adhering to a cadre of blockchain regulated drones that monitor the security blockchain and hunt down the offending individuals, to avoid that offenders would fight back and of course they would face the blockchain regulated enforcement drones which follow strictly and unconditionally without fear the will of the people, protecting them unconditionally, bypassing that would be to attack the common sense of the people, perverting their choices for ill gain, which would be countered by a social information and education blockchain that gathers and exposes the true information of how the society is working to fully inform the citizens with honest, unbiased information, impossible to falsify.... and hence the blockchain begins to form a government and the biggest battle in human history begins.

 regardless of the level of corruption in the world, the blockchain with it's structure will correct and balance all forces... It does not forget, it does not forgive and it is legion... the network effect globally makes every attempt at corruption visible, every attack on the integrity of the network is recorded what works once will never work again once understood. slowly but surely each deviation against the will of the people is methodically routed out and eliminated.

great idea, but first you need consensus on the proper role of government.  what should the DAG do and what shouldn't it so?  Since people can't really agree on that, how will you supplant the current system?

So what you are saying is it won't be effective against blackmail and extortion since anyone being extorted will turn off the check in order to protect their kidnapped loved one and all movies about cops figuring this out and being heroes will take place in the distant past?  Seems more likely to me that the very suggestion that that is possible will take away that right.  I certainly want privacy, but at the end of the day, if people as a collective are voting, they will never be smart enough to be fair for everyone and fear will always guide the system.  There are a lot of stupid laws due to a lot of stupid fears, and there is a lot of stupid propaganda to drive that fear, and a DAG wouldn't change either of those things because there are a lot of stupid people.

but at the end of the day, if people as a collective are voting, they will never be smart enough to be fair for everyone and fear will always guide the system.

There are a lot of stupid laws due to a lot of stupid fears, and there is a lot of stupid propaganda to drive that fear, and a DAG wouldn't change either of those things because there are a lot of stupid people.

will only reveal this information to others if you approve.

what you know it knows too and can tell if you may be getting extorted or robbed and will inform security drones to come check up on you to make sure everything is okay only if you have it setup for that...

Hi there,

Heard that the most exiting Application Bitcoin allow is DAGs. But the internet lacks of information about DAGs. What is a DAG exactly ? How does it work ? Is there any white paper ? The only white paper i've found is there, but I didn't find any reference related to the Bitcoin protocol. Is Ethereum a better protocol for DAGs ? Is there other posts here which contains DAGs topic related ? Found this article btw but i'm locking for further informations. Thanks.

great idea, but first you need consensus on the proper role of government.  what should the DAG do and what shouldn't it so?  Since people can't really agree on that, how will you supplant the current system?

The proper role of government IMO is to uphold individual rights and prohibit initiary force.  Yet many people believe the government should have their hands in the economy, agriculture, education, the environment, you name it.

A limited government based on a DAG would be perhaps good, but people haven't been educated yet on the proper function of government.