Do not use USB sticks for long term storage! Its not safe! - page 6.

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legendary

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Quote from: fenican on May 09, 2016, 07:41:10 AM

USB sticks, Flash ROM, does not wear out because of "lack of power" - it is solid state circuitry - they wear out due to the maximum number of read/write cycles.

If you keep one in safe dry place and don't use it, it should retain its data for 60 to 80 years until the physical circuitry degrades.

WRONG!

Google "How long can a SSD store data without power?"

fenican

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USB sticks, Flash ROM, does not wear out because of "lack of power" - it is solid state circuitry - they wear out due to the maximum number of read/write cycles.

If you keep one in safe dry place and don't use it, it should retain its data for 60 to 80 years until the physical circuitry degrades.

whored

newbie

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Pernicious nonsense!
USB sticks are the safest way to store our bitscoin treasure. They just need to be buried in a back yard, under the birdbath Angry

Quote from: joe101 on May 08, 2016, 02:30:51 PM

...
last night i bought 5 usb sticks and 2 waterproof boxes, i put the box inside of the other box then the 5 usb sticks in the middle of the box, afterwards i went into my backyard and dug a hole underneath the bird fountain,

i dug the hole almost 3 feet under. Then i buried it back and placed the bird fountain back.

The bird fountain has been in the same spot for many years so i am not worried about forgetting where i buried it, and grass doesn't grow underneath it.

so there we have it, I buried a total of 5 bitcoins, i plan to keep it there for 20 years. The 5 bitcoins cost me about 2300USD
...

Cantoner

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I remember someone has stored its savings into bitcoin ,around 3500 dollars soo he stored 5 btc into a cage and he said he would let it near a fountain for 10 or 25 years i dont remember right soo there is a higg odds that he will be loosing his coins over the time instead being saving it as bitcoin i hope he reads this information and avoid loose his savings.

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legendary

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How to combine a file or folder into a image tutorial.

http://www.wikihow.com/Hide-a-File-in-an-Image-File

electronicash

legendary

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Quote from: Quantus on May 09, 2016, 04:27:08 AM

Just a reminder

Its not safe to use USB sticks or SSDs for long term storage they lose data over time if they are not powered!

You can't just stick your private keys on a few USB sticks or SSD and box them up for 4 - 8 years you will lose all your coins.

For long term storage have at least 3 backups paper wallets or HDDs. You can even use something like DropBox But be sure to encrypt your wallet and change the name.

You can even hide your wallet inside a image file.

Ah it sure make sense. Just like any other appliances it will soon malfunction if not use overtime.
Is. There's any tutorial about jhiding they back up wallet on an image file?

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legendary

Activity: 883

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This is what I do. Not cold storage

I clone my whole SSD to a HDD every year and keep that and an extra copy of my wallet on a USB stick in a safe. I also hide a encrypted Truecrypt file hidden inside a image on Dropbox. (heavily encrypted)

extra Pro Tip:

If your running a full node client you can also use a "symbolic directory link" generator to move your whole Bitcoin client wallet and Block chain off your main drive to another drive within minutes. it's like a shortcut pointing the program to a new location. This way you won't wear out your SSD with all those read/writes and you save space on you SSD!

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

Quote from: Petersen on May 09, 2016, 06:22:31 AM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on May 09, 2016, 06:05:18 AM

The general consenses is about 10 years until you start to get I/O write errors. Mounting and reading from the devices will last until entropic decay transpires.

Drive manufacturer Flashbay has said that data retention could theoretically be in the region of 60 to 80 years, if stored in a perfect environment. In reality, it is far lower, but at least 10 years if you buy a quality USB stick. But there is nothing wrong with a paper wallet or a CD of course.

When you upload it to DropBox is has additional risks, i would not recommend that.

Paper Wallets have their risks too. Nothing is risk-free.

I agree. What about archival DVDs? Maybe if stored in a proper environment, without light and humidity they could last for decades?

decades are a long time

. if you really want to store it for this long timeframe, just make a addtitional paper wallet and put it in a bank-vault. or google "M-Disc", that would be another option.

a proper environment, without light and humidity is an important factor in any case.

BellaBitBit

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I had no idea that the data can be lost over time Shocked

Thanks for this information!

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legendary

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According to the US National Archives, CDs and DVDs have very similar lifespans. Generally, unrecorded (blank) CDs and DVDs have a shelf-life of five to ten years. The experiential life expectancy of recorded CDs and DVDs is between two and five years, though based on manufacturer claims, ten to twenty five years, or even longer, isn’t unprecedented. In any case, using very conservative numbers will reduce the risk of losing data.

These numbers also depend on environmental factors and how often the disc is used. Any optical media is extremely susceptible to damage because there is little protection on the readable surface—just think about how many CDs of yours have been scratched through regular use, it happens to all of us.

Petersen

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on May 09, 2016, 06:05:18 AM

The general consenses is about 10 years until you start to get I/O write errors. Mounting and reading from the devices will last until entropic decay transpires.

Drive manufacturer Flashbay has said that data retention could theoretically be in the region of 60 to 80 years, if stored in a perfect environment. In reality, it is far lower, but at least 10 years if you buy a quality USB stick. But there is nothing wrong with a paper wallet or a CD of course.

When you upload it to DropBox is has additional risks, i would not recommend that.

Paper Wallets have their risks too. Nothing is risk-free.

I agree. What about archival DVDs? Maybe if stored in a proper environment, without light and humidity they could last for decades?

tiggytomb

legendary

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I didn't realise the lifespan would be as short as ten years. I did read about some kind of DNA storage being looked into, I would imagine this would have quite a long lifespan, until then I suppose old school paper is the way to go!

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legendary

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I have issues with hardware wallets because they have so many other things that could break like a leaking battery.
But If you insist on using a USB stick you must be willing to baby sit them, they should be safe you just need to power them up every few months and have multiple copies of your wallet on each stick.

Rizky Aditya

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Quote from: twister on May 09, 2016, 06:16:22 AM

What if you keep plugging them in every now and then, say after 6 months periodically? Will then they be safe, I have some keys which are not part of my electrum wallet(its seed is written somewhere safe, so not worried about that) and I have their keys on couple of USB sticks.

Quote from: Rizky Aditya on May 09, 2016, 04:44:37 AM

Quote from: Quantus on May 09, 2016, 04:35:33 AM

yeah hardware wallets are just USB sticks with some extra logic bits right? So if they lost power for more then a few years they could become corrupted to. I wouldn't trust them, just more crap that could break.

Oh wow I really had no idea that that would happen over time. I use a ledger wallet which is pretty much a USB with add ons. Now I'm going to consider moving to a paper wallet. Thanks.

Ledger wallet coins are backed by the seed and as long as you have the recovery sheet and/or have noted it down somewhere safe then your coins are safe as well because they can be recovered using another ledger wallet/mycelium/multibit hd.

Yeah that is true. And the company say that the ledger wallets last for around 30 years, I would have sold my Bitcoins a long time before that. I guess that I am quite safe then.

twister

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What if you keep plugging them in every now and then, say after 6 months periodically? Will then they be safe, I have some keys which are not part of my electrum wallet(its seed is written somewhere safe, so not worried about that) and I have their keys on couple of USB sticks.

Quote from: Rizky Aditya on May 09, 2016, 04:44:37 AM

Quote from: Quantus on May 09, 2016, 04:35:33 AM

yeah hardware wallets are just USB sticks with some extra logic bits right? So if they lost power for more then a few years they could become corrupted to. I wouldn't trust them, just more crap that could break.

Oh wow I really had no idea that that would happen over time. I use a ledger wallet which is pretty much a USB with add ons. Now I'm going to consider moving to a paper wallet. Thanks.

Ledger wallet coins are backed by the seed and as long as you have the recovery sheet and/or have noted it down somewhere safe then your coins are safe as well because they can be recovered using another ledger wallet/mycelium/multibit hd.

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legendary

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on May 09, 2016, 06:05:18 AM

The general consenses is about 10 years until you start to get I/O write errors. Mounting and reading from the devices will last until entropic decay transpires.

Drive manufacturer Flashbay has said that data retention could theoretically be in the region of 60 to 80 years, if stored in a perfect environment. In reality, it is far lower, but at least 10 years if you buy a quality USB stick. But there is nothing wrong with a paper wallet or a CD of course.

When you upload it to DropBox is has additional risks, i would not recommend that.

Paper Wallets have their risks too. Nothing is risk-free.

Sorry no the life span of a memory stick is about 10 years if you power it but without power you will start to see significant data corruption after just 4 years.

If you encrypt your wallet and change the name and file extension its pretty dam safe to store your wallet on DropBox. Even if a attacker found your file and knew what it was they couldn't crack it.

DashCoinDark

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Quote from: zottejos on May 09, 2016, 04:31:27 AM

Quote from: Quantus on May 09, 2016, 04:27:08 AM

Just a reminder

Its not safe to use USB sticks or SSDs for long term storage they lose data over time if they are not powered!

You can't just stick your private keys on a few USB sticks or SSD and box them up for 4 - 8 years you will lose all your coins.

For long term storage have at least 3 backups paper wallets or HDDs. You can even use something like DropBox But be sure to encrypt your wallet and change the name.

You can even hide your wallet inside a image file.

Thanks for the advice... I never tought about an usb stick losing it's data.
How about hardware wallet tough? Most of them have seed words to restore your wallet, but i'm pretty sure the device itself won't last forever either, so you might want to add them to your list?

Yeah this is great advise to get because I did not think that that could actually happen. I will now definitely change my wise my ways of storing my Bitcoin data.
Glad to hear something talking about this.

LiteCoinGuy

legendary

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In Satoshi I Trust

The general consenses is about 10 years until you start to get I/O write errors. Mounting and reading from the devices will last until entropic decay transpires.

Drive manufacturer Flashbay has said that data retention could theoretically be in the region of 60 to 80 years, if stored in a perfect environment. In reality, it is far lower, but at least 10 years if you buy a quality USB stick. But there is nothing wrong with a paper wallet or a CD of course.

When you upload it to DropBox is has additional risks, i would not recommend that.

Paper Wallets have their risks too. Nothing is risk-free.

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legendary

Activity: 883

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yeah any solid state memory.
But if your storing your coins with a company you don't really own them. If that company goes under you lose everything. Your coins are not ensured or protected by any law.
That company could be hacked or even shut down by the government for breaking the law and seize all the coins with no obligation to return any of them.

ObscureBean

legendary

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Well that's certainly good to know and I imagine it's the same with micro sd cards as well? So I guess it's paper wallets and maybe encrypted DVD's then. Fortunately I don't have that problem, all of my coins are with Coinbase (for better or for worse) Tongue

Topic: Do not use USB sticks for long term storage! Its not safe! - page 6. (Read 5129 times)