Do we allow alt accounts in forum awards.

joker_josue

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 26, 2024, 01:59:02 PM

Quote from: joker_josue on August 25, 2024, 02:04:54 AM

I guess the point is that if we know an account is alt, but we don't know who it is. So does it make sense to allow an alt to participate?

I could say exactly the same thing for all other accounts who participated in pizza contest and all other forum competitions.
As far as I know airfinex didn't confirm that he is an altaccount, so it's all based on speculation that someone in forum is against royse, and I know plenty of people who don't like him.
All this topic and discussion at the moment is one big nothinburger, until I see something concrete aka evidence.

Note, I'm just not here saying I'm for or against it. Just creating lines of reasoning on the subject.

Now, if there is no clear evidence that the account is alt, then it's not really worth speculating.

dkbit98

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Quote from: joker_josue on August 25, 2024, 02:04:54 AM

I guess the point is that if we know an account is alt, but we don't know who it is. So does it make sense to allow an alt to participate?

I could say exactly the same thing for all other accounts who participated in pizza contest and all other forum competitions.
As far as I know airfinex didn't confirm that he is an altaccount, so it's all based on speculation that someone in forum is against royse, and I know plenty of people who don't like him.
All this topic and discussion at the moment is one big nothinburger, until I see something concrete aka evidence.

joker_josue

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 24, 2024, 10:42:04 AM

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 24, 2024, 04:38:54 AM

It's casinocritiue and created for the project Casino Critique . Anyone can create alt, that's not the problem. The discussion here is that for example in pizza contest if I join from both Royse and Casino Critique than it's unfair. One person is taking two spots for the same competition.

Yes I understand that, but you didn't provide a single valid proof that airfinex other altaccount participated in pizza contest, you didn't even speculated who that might be.
I am the first one to complain if I see anyone participating and cheating in any forum competitions with multiple accounts, but I need to see evidence.

I guess the point is that if we know an account is alt, but we don't know who it is. So does it make sense to allow an alt to participate?

One thing is that we know that AltX is from UserX, so we know who we are dealing with at all times.
Another is that we don't know who owns the AltZ account, whether it's UserZ or UserY. The question remains whether the alt is participating alone, or also with the parent account.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 24, 2024, 04:38:54 AM

It's casinocritiue and created for the project Casino Critique . Anyone can create alt, that's not the problem. The discussion here is that for example in pizza contest if I join from both Royse and Casino Critique than it's unfair. One person is taking two spots for the same competition.

The account CasinoCritque meant to be connected with my account although it's created for business use not personal purpose. Since this is not a personal account, anyone from the Casino Critique team can handle the account to do forum related tasks.

Obviously, that’s the theme of the OP as I see it which is very much unfair by my standards and as to how I’ve come to understand the forum.
It’s even unfair still, to use alt accounts and vote in polls, after you might have supposedly cast a vote from another account. These count towards malpractices that jeopardize the integrity and aim of the entire system.
It’s why it remains a roll to not participate with alts in these contest and signatures.
Your quality is already visible in one account. Let it out and not cheat the system.

dkbit98

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 24, 2024, 04:38:54 AM

It's casinocritiue and created for the project Casino Critique . Anyone can create alt, that's not the problem. The discussion here is that for example in pizza contest if I join from both Royse and Casino Critique than it's unfair. One person is taking two spots for the same competition.

Yes I understand that, but you didn't provide a single valid proof that airfinex other altaccount participated in pizza contest, you didn't even speculated who that might be.
I am the first one to complain if I see anyone participating and cheating in any forum competitions with multiple accounts, but I need to see evidence.

AB de Royse777

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 23, 2024, 07:27:11 AM

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 20, 2024, 05:09:41 AM

I have no problem as I said having an alt account but when joining contests, spreading manipulated lies just because you do not like someone with an alt account is abusing the opportunity of the freedom of speech. It's personal hate and cheating.

Didn't you also use altaccount when you tried to start a new casino review business that didn't work out, and it was later discovered this was owned by you?

It's casinocritiue and created for the project Casino Critique . Anyone can create alt, that's not the problem. The discussion here is that for example in pizza contest if I join from both Royse and Casino Critique than it's unfair. One person is taking two spots for the same competition.

The account CasinoCritque meant to be connected with my account although it's created for business use not personal purpose. Since this is not a personal account, anyone from the Casino Critique team can handle the account to do forum related tasks.

dkbit98

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 20, 2024, 05:09:41 AM

I have no problem as I said having an alt account but when joining contests, spreading manipulated lies just because you do not like someone with an alt account is abusing the opportunity of the freedom of speech. It's personal hate and cheating.

Didn't you also use altaccount when you tried to start a new casino review business that didn't work out, and it was later discovered this was owned by you?

I am not blaming or protecting anyone but there is no rules that altaccounts can't be used in forum competitions (except for cheating with multiple submissions), or for starting a new business.
Even talking bad about other members they don't like is not forbidden, but nobody likes that chicken shit behavior.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: PX-Z on August 22, 2024, 11:12:51 PM

Regardless if one of the users won or not, it is still cheating, period.

But with OP's issue sounds like personal and there's no proof of connection of the accused users, so i will leave it as it is.

I don’t think this was an outright reputation problem but, just an enquiry from OP on what are the standards for this sought of situation and how it ought to be handled.

What I would consider cheating however is having to apply on both accounts. At this point, it doesn’t matter if you were accepted or not, it’s cheating. You already leveraged 2 changes in a place where you ought to have got just one. It’s even worst when you apply from both accounts and one wins the prize. You get stripped of everything and tagged for that sought of behavior.

I play the FPL and over the course of last season, we had a user enrolling alts and both accounts won prizes. The judgment was straight, stripping them both from prized positions and let others fill the space. It’s what should be obtainable.

PX-Z

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Quote from: ?? on ??

....

https://ninjastic.space/post/64454579

What are you talking about again?

Quote from: DiMarxist on August 22, 2024, 06:02:54 PM

If the two accounts were enrolled and and participated in the contest and one of them won the contest

Regardless if one of the users won or not, it is still cheating, period.

But with OP's issue sounds like personal and there's no proof of connection of the accused users, so i will leave it as it is.

Smartvirus

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So I had to jump on this without having to read other users comments because, I want to be sole opinionated on this one. Since the take on alt accounts is that, it’s allowed, when it’s about as described in OP and quote,

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 17, 2024, 12:27:32 AM

I guess it's no doubt that airfinex is an alt account. Building an alt account is not against the forum but do we think it's justified that an obvious alt account is joining forum contests and even winning prizes?

The issue with alt accounts have been about the activities you use it for. Mainly, about the idea of cheating which can come in a couple of forms but, could be generally summed up to be, utilizing more than one opportunity where, your expected to have just a single chance per individual.

Should your alt be a representative of itself and you as a forum user, I don’t see much to argue about that. It’s still a chance per user. When you use both accounts to test your stars, there we have problems.

DiMarxist

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If the two accounts were enrolled and and participated in the contest and one of them won the contest then it is cheating and it is not accepted. But if it is only the above stated account was used and the main account was not used then it is not cheating.
And even the alt, there is no evidence yet until proven to bring up the two accounts.

yhiaali3

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Quote from: JeromeTash on August 21, 2024, 03:56:58 PM

But It still doesn't help if you don't know the main account it is linked to. The Person could still argue out that they only used their alt account in the competition and not the main account

Maybe he didn't want his main account to make submissions in contest?

Yes, this is the problem, if he is not discovered, no one will ask him why he is using an Alt account, but if he is discovered, we will return to the first question, why is he participating with an Alt account and not with the main account in the competition?

Just because he does not want to participate with his main account in the competition is not a convincing reason.

JeromeTash

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on August 19, 2024, 05:20:29 AM

-snip-

But It still doesn't help if you don't know the main account it is linked to. The Person could still argue out that they only used their alt account in the competition and not the main account

Maybe he didn't want his main account to make submissions in contest?

Poker Player

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 20, 2024, 05:09:41 AM

Freedom of speech does not also mean that an alt account reach out to the clients in PMs and do possibly everything to discourage them to work with you, tell them that working with you is a bad choice and all these manipulated stuffs to scare them.

I have no problem as I said having an alt account but when joining contests, spreading manipulated lies just because you do not like someone with an alt account is abusing the opportunity of the freedom of speech. It's personal hate and cheating.

Freedom of speech always has some limits, usually in the rights and freedoms of the other, but here we were not talking about this specific case, but about freedom of speech in general of the forum.

Quote from: nutildah on August 20, 2024, 06:00:22 AM

Yes. I do have proof: the fact that the operation of the forum is a de facto dictatorship.

So what you mean is that the owner of the forum should run it in a democratic way or something? As I see it, if a court summons arrives for something related to the forum it will reach him, so it is normal that he makes decisions as the owner of this company. And for example the trust system, although far from perfect, is so decentralized that it has allowed him to have a red tag in his profile.

Although I guess this is going off topic and would deserve another thread to be debated.

joker_josue

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 20, 2024, 05:09:41 AM

I have no problem as I said having an alt account but when joining contests, spreading manipulated lies just because you do not like someone with an alt account is abusing the opportunity of the freedom of speech. It's personal hate and cheating.

Accordingly. Anyone can have an alt, but it shouldn't serve to defame others, especially if you don't have proof.

But unfortunately, you already know this, that when people just want to defame, they use an alt for that purpose. Unfortunately, little can be done about this.

nutildah

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Quote from: Poker Player on August 19, 2024, 10:10:43 PM

Quote from: nutildah on August 19, 2024, 08:02:18 PM

There's no "right to free speech" on this forum, whatsoever. We post here under the good grace of theymos, operating under the belief that any of this will continue to exist under his rulership.

Do you have any proof of what you say? I have the opposite impression, that here there is much more freedom of speech than in most internet sites, and I don't remember anyone being deleted comments or banned for expressing their ideas.

Yes. I do have proof: the fact that the operation of the forum is a de facto dictatorship. I'm not talking about comparing any site to any site, I'm talking about the way that things actually are. Yes, its true, theymos is more committed to a freedom-oriented forum than most others with his level of power might be, and IMO he's a great dictator.

AB de Royse777

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Quote from: joker_josue on August 20, 2024, 01:47:37 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on August 19, 2024, 10:10:43 PM

Quote from: nutildah on August 19, 2024, 08:02:18 PM

There's no "right to free speech" on this forum, whatsoever. We post here under the good grace of theymos, operating under the belief that any of this will continue to exist under his rulership.

Do you have any proof of what you say? I have the opposite impression, that here there is much more freedom of speech than in most internet sites, and I don't remember anyone being deleted comments or banned for expressing their ideas.

In fact, if there wasn't this so-called "freedom of expression", people wouldn't create these alt accounts, often to make meaningless observations. Roll Eyes

Now, having freedom of expression doesn't mean that people have to offend each other - although that sometimes happens here, and even then they aren't banned.

Therefore, I think there is good freedom of expression, as long as what is said or done does not cause direct harm (such as suffering from some scheme).

Freedom of speech does not also mean that an alt account reach out to the clients in PMs and do possibly everything to discourage them to work with you, tell them that working with you is a bad choice and all these manipulated stuffs to scare them.

I have no problem as I said having an alt account but when joining contests, spreading manipulated lies just because you do not like someone with an alt account is abusing the opportunity of the freedom of speech. It's personal hate and cheating.

joker_josue

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Quote from: Poker Player on August 19, 2024, 10:10:43 PM

Quote from: nutildah on August 19, 2024, 08:02:18 PM

There's no "right to free speech" on this forum, whatsoever. We post here under the good grace of theymos, operating under the belief that any of this will continue to exist under his rulership.

Do you have any proof of what you say? I have the opposite impression, that here there is much more freedom of speech than in most internet sites, and I don't remember anyone being deleted comments or banned for expressing their ideas.

In fact, if there wasn't this so-called "freedom of expression", people wouldn't create these alt accounts, often to make meaningless observations. Roll Eyes

Now, having freedom of expression doesn't mean that people have to offend each other - although that sometimes happens here, and even then they aren't banned.

Therefore, I think there is good freedom of expression, as long as what is said or done does not cause direct harm (such as suffering from some scheme).

Poker Player

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Quote from: nutildah on August 19, 2024, 08:02:18 PM

There's no "right to free speech" on this forum, whatsoever. We post here under the good grace of theymos, operating under the belief that any of this will continue to exist under his rulership.

Do you have any proof of what you say? I have the opposite impression, that here there is much more freedom of speech than in most internet sites, and I don't remember anyone being deleted comments or banned for expressing their ideas.

nutildah

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Quote from: Quickseller on August 19, 2024, 07:30:36 AM

I don't think someone having two forum accounts entering into a contest is "cheating" by any reasonable defination.

1. Its 99% assured that the account in question is an alt account.
2. There's an unknown introduced by not knowing the main account of the alt account.
3. Its a problem for those tasked with giving away BTC who want to do it as fairly as possible.

Furthermore, I thought about it and

Quote from: nutildah on August 19, 2024, 06:02:46 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on August 17, 2024, 07:50:30 PM

The forum is a very strong believer of free speech and freedom in general. The ability to create alt accounts is necessary to allow free speech. If you limit what an alt account is able to do, you are in effect limiting free speech.

People often make alt accounts to just further their own, singular viewpoint, or to shill, spam, etc. I don't believe that manipulating the forum with alt accounts falls under the category of "free speech." Its dishonest, capitalizing on the goodwill of the community & shouldn't be tolerated.

There's no "right to free speech" on this forum, whatsoever. We post here under the good grace of theymos, operating under the belief that any of this will continue to exist under his rulership.

Do you think blacklisting an alt account from DT because of an obvious attempt to manipulate the system is also stifling free speech?

Topic: Do we allow alt accounts in forum awards. (Read 852 times)