Do you believe stolen funds should be returned to their owner? - page 3.

shoreno

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Quote from: akeegan on August 22, 2019, 03:50:31 PM

what should happen to stolen funds. Do you get them returned or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

It depends if how the funds have lost . if the funds lost because of hacking then there is no way that it can be returned by the hackers but if ever they caught by the police or cyber crime units and the funds are still recovered then the there is still a chance that the funds can be returned to its owner .

Other scenarios that i think is when we send a crypto to a wrong address . the funds can be returned if the reciever is a good person but it will lost forever if the reciever is inactive or a bad person

BIN-BIN

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Base on my experience when ever any found is stolen and the hackers are not traced and arrested it is gone forever, because the decentralized system does not allow any third party involvement and only the holder have the sole right to send found to any one.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: akeegan on August 22, 2019, 03:50:31 PM

Do you get them returned or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

If the stolen funds are not moved you cannot really do anything about it but there are ways to track the tainted coins and if there is a crowd funded security team to monitor all the tainted coins and wallets and their movements and inform all the exchanges in real time, then these tainted coins will be useless, even now there will be a point of exit if these stolen funds are to be converted, there were instances in the past where stolen funds were recovered with the help of exchanges, so anything possible.

kryptqnick

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Fighting money laundering, ponzis, thefts and other types of financial crimes is important, of course. I did not know about ransomware being so popular, honestly. People have to be educated about their money management, real and not real offers, risks of investments, security measures and stuff like that. If the authorities manage to confiscate some funds, I think it would only be fair to return the money to those who lost it. As for the idea of making definitely stolen money frozen - I don't think it's justified and will ever be approved by the crypto community because it allows abuses. Or at least the freezing decisions will have to be made by the community, not the authorities.
Nice to hear that financing terrorism is usually happening with fiat, not cryptos.

Jo1992

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Depends. Are the stolen funds being recovered from the theif or another victim who received them in exchange for btc or something? Are the bitcoins retrievable too. If you take funds from the guy who sold bitcoins, with out returning the btc, law enforcement are essentially stealing from them. Its just moving the victim around. When in all honesty its the error of the victim /their financial institute that allowed access by the thieves. Without repercussions why would they bother to increase security in future. Maybe an insurance fund that covers 75% could be mandatory with the rest split between parties.

Free1bitco.in

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Quote from: xvids on August 23, 2019, 02:49:44 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Depending on whether the person who receives Bitcoin is good or not, if they are good they will return it, but often all things are not returned, so sad Cry

It doesn't matter if their good or bad the thing is,
Stolen money should be given back to it's rightful owner,
They worked for they earned it so they should be the one to spend it.

I agree that any funds given must be returned. it's just that, thinking that around $ 4 billion was stolen, or was exposed to money laundering, I think it's very difficult to return it. even for insurance, it would be very difficult to carry out that much money.

in this case, I'm not really sure that the money can be returned, only when they succeed in returning it, that would be one of the best points in this regard. Well, I think this is quite interesting to follow.

qweqwe2121

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If there really is a way to return it I think they were tricked into a scam project they should get their rights back, but in fact they still lost. Especially for cases of fraud not theft., so I do not believe.

xvids

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Depending on whether the person who receives Bitcoin is good or not, if they are good they will return it, but often all things are not returned, so sad Cry

It doesn't matter if their good or bad the thing is,
Stolen money should be given back to it's rightful owner,
They worked for they earned it so they should be the one to spend it.

Duzter

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In a decentralized platform something lost is lost forever. It'll get refunded only if the user who stole the funds need to have the mind to refund it back. In one case that happened in my country, there is a borrowing of certain amount of USD in bitcoin, and while returning back the borrower returned in terms of bitcoin as the market of bitcoin was down. This was taken to the custody of the police and a complaint has been filed. No result on the complaint yet. This way refund is completely an impossible thing.

sheenshane

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It's simple logic if the hacker has been caught and the fund stolen was also recovered then it might return to the owner. Yeah, I know that crypto transactions are not irreversible but there is a high chance that it will trace/tract and become hacker caught. It would be returned by the authorities to the official owner.

That case if hackers been caught it will be returned, but if not it will be lost forever even you know where is the last drop address on it. (Majority of stolen bitcoin are not being recovered, so we don't expect it will return to the owner).

Janation

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Stolen and being lost forever is different from each other.

When your cryptocurrencies are stolen, obviously there is a way to return that the thing is that it is close to impossible to do that unless you know who done that. When you send your Bitcoin into a wrong address and hat address don't exist, the Bitcoin you sent will not be found or returned since that is already lost forever and that is deducted to the total supply, it can't be used anymore. For me, I hope that it will be returned to the owner since ethically speaking, that is the right thing to do.

davis196

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OP,you are formulating your question in the wrong way.
I guess that you are asking about whether or not crypto transactions should become reversible,in order to fight all the scammers,hackers and cheaters.Is that what you are trying to ask?
I don't think that making transactions reversible will solve the problem.Look at the fiat banking industry.Billions of dollars stolen every year,and yet they can't reverse those fiat transactions.

Coyster

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If you're making an open request for scammers of thieves to return funds they stole, then that is never going to happen, why did they steal the funds in the first place if they are simply going to return it, it's almost impossible to appeal to the conscience of criminals.

But in case of recovered funds which happens less frequently in this cryptocurrency environment, then the funds ought to be returned to the original owners, but when you take another look at it, how many stolen funds have been recovered, it's near zero, the technology makes it difficult for us to track down criminals.

maxreish

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Quote

Do you get them returned or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

In an actual scenario, hacked funds do not usually returned to the owner. Hackers do their illegal job to get funds from a particular exchanges to sustain their financial needs. I do not think that they will reconsider their morality hence, they would ignore it and will not waste another time to returned what they've got.

But on the other side, yeah they should. It is because, user's did not easily get the money they have invested, they worked hard for it. If that would be the reason for the hacked victims to messed up their life, i do hope hackers will atleast return it.

timerland

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The article is very different to what your title states, and your discussing 2 different things.

Regarding if funds should be returned to their owner, yes, of course. That was your money that was stolen, and you deserve it back, not in the hands of the government, or the hacker/thief. Is this viable though is the real question, and that is a definite no. Think of the number of resources that would be required to do such a thing, and it's near impossible to get funds returned correctly, and the government would never do such a thing if they caught the thieves.

Another big issue, how would you prove that funds were stolen? A transaction going out of your wallet isn't really enough, and BTC offers way less information compared to fiat money, so it'll be much harder to prove such things.

Quote from: mk4 on August 22, 2019, 10:18:26 PM

Quote from: Hypnosis00 on August 22, 2019, 05:37:15 PM

I never think such morality exist by now. They steal our funds in a certain purposes and not by returning it over.

I mean, I'm not defending thieves(fuck them), but it would be really unrealistic to expect thieves to return stolen money.

I think we are assuming that the thieves are caught, and the government or another entity holds the funds.

Anonylz

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If there is anyway to get your stolen funds back then why not! Ofcours it is the proper thing to do, if funds where repprted stolen and the authorities are able to recover the funds, it would be only logically to return it to the owner's by following due process, but on a more serious note, is it really possible to get stolen crypto back? because i feel in most cases those funds are lost forever.

Kakmakr

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Ok, let's take this scenario :

Scammer steals 10 bitcoins from his mark and he immediately spends those bitcoins at a local online computer shop. The computer shop does not know where the bitcoins are coming from, but the coins can be traced back to their shop. The goods was picked up by the scammer, but the scammer used a fake ID to take the receipt of the goods and no copies was made of the ID documents, so the scammer cannot be traced.

Should the computer shop pay back the 10 bitcoins that was legally received for goods that was purchased at their shop? This is not as straight forward as it sounds, because a lot of scammer mix those coins or they buy online goods to launder that money. Roll Eyes

Darker45

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This appears to me a simple case of logic and propriety. If a fund is stolen, it should be reported to the proper authorities. The authorities will have to investigate and employ all necessary legal measures to recover the funds. If the funds are recovered, it will be returned to whoever owns it. If the robbers are not caught and brought to justice, then it would be very hard to recover what was stolen unless the funds goes under the radar of the authorities and is tracked down. It will then be frozen with the cooperation of the site in which it is stored, and eventually returned to where they came from.

It does not mean that any stolen fund in a decentralized environment is lost forever. There were already cases of crypto robberies in the past where funds are successfully recovered.

pooya87

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Quote from: akeegan on August 22, 2019, 03:50:31 PM

Over $4 billion has been stolen or laundered in the first six months of 2019! This interview with CipherTrace CEO Dave Jevans is really interesting regarding details of the lost and stolen funds.

don't believe the stats that these companies that are doing "blockchain analysis" release. they exaggerate things and most of the times they release fake numbers that don't even make sense.

Quote

Do you get them returned or in a decentralized system are they lost forever?

can you really prove they were "stolen"?
lets say a transaction goes out of your wallet spending all your funds. can you prove that it was a hacker that stole it or was it you who sold those coins and now want to scam the other party by calling it a hack?
you see the problem here?

mk4

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Quote from: Hypnosis00 on August 22, 2019, 05:37:15 PM

I never think such morality exist by now. They steal our funds in a certain purposes and not by returning it over.

I mean, I'm not defending thieves(fuck them), but it would be really unrealistic to expect thieves to return stolen money.

Quote from: yazher on August 22, 2019, 09:40:19 PM

If possible stolen funds must be returned to their respective owners if they can still track its owners.

We can track every transaction in the bitcoin blockchain simply because it's transparent. While we can trace the coins being moved, it still doesn't guarantee for us to know the thief in the end; unless the thief does some really stupid stuff like sending the money on a custodial exchange with his/her name affiliated with the address, which is something that we honestly shouldn't expect them to be making.

Topic: Do you believe stolen funds should be returned to their owner? - page 3. (Read 580 times)