Topic: Do you pay with Bitcoin whenever you're able to? (Read 1220 times)
Sometimes yes, but more often I use my credit and debit cards.
The poll was a great idea to expose how Bitcoiners see their currency. It seems that 51.9% of them would use it as a medium of exchange and they'd prefer paying with it rather than with their fiat, while a worrying 49.1% seems to have a different opinion. Let's see how far can the global adoption reach with that attitude...
Anyway, thread closed. (It's being derailed for a week now)
Anyway, thread closed. (It's being derailed for a week now)
I am very willing to use Bitcoin to pay and even I will encourage my friends around me to pay with Bitcoin. In fact, every very small Bitcoin transaction increases the circulation rate of Bitcoin in the market. I think this is very meaningful. When a currency has circulation and a market, it can become a currency in the true sense.
The truth is many of us bitcoin HODLers seldom use bitcoin to pay for things especially because bitcoin is generally viewed by many as an investment strategy, that is a way to get more from your money due to its high volatility. As a result, many like myself are seeking for ways to get more bitcoin rather than spend from the little we have.
If however i want to transfer money to someone in a far away country, and its a substantial amount, i can convert a part of my BTC HODLings into a coin with a lower transaction fee to send out or make the transfer in BTC if its small and the seller of a service or product i need so demands his payment in BTC.
If however i want to transfer money to someone in a far away country, and its a substantial amount, i can convert a part of my BTC HODLings into a coin with a lower transaction fee to send out or make the transfer in BTC if its small and the seller of a service or product i need so demands his payment in BTC.
I don’t use bitcoin for a transaction to an unknown person, the only transactions I make are to people that I know. I have used Bitcoin once for buying something online and the experience wasn’t a good one and I ended up regretting it.
Apart from the fact that you will have to wait for the seller to confirm your transaction, you’re also likely to be scammed, which is one reason why I do prefer making use of other payment methods because you’re going to safe using them, and hardly get scammed because their transactions can be reversed if you happen to be scammed. But if I should see a shop that is accepting Bitcoin as a payment method, for sure I would like to pay with Bitcoin, since you can’t be scammed when it has to do with face to face transactions.
Apart from the fact that you will have to wait for the seller to confirm your transaction, you’re also likely to be scammed, which is one reason why I do prefer making use of other payment methods because you’re going to safe using them, and hardly get scammed because their transactions can be reversed if you happen to be scammed. But if I should see a shop that is accepting Bitcoin as a payment method, for sure I would like to pay with Bitcoin, since you can’t be scammed when it has to do with face to face transactions.
However, for me --most likely I will never spend my bitcoin if that is not necessary, I prefer to store it and make the value increase.
Unfortunately, that's the “prevailing opinion”. That you should not spend it, until it worths spending it; the problem is that if you don't spend it, it may never worth spending it. 
I am not quite sure if I understand all of the second layer solutions, but would someone who is willing to double spend attack a second layer transaction also have to have the majority of the hash power?
Not exactly.Well, obviously if someone gained the majority of the hashrate, he could disrupt the main layer which would then disrupt the second. But, straightly for the second layer specifically, you can't double spend funds.
i disagree. you are completely ignoring second layer solutions
comparing the rbf feature with paypals reversability is also a wide stretch. i wouldn't count transactions in the mempool as final, that is what you basically also say. but no "honest" vendor should accept zero confirmation transactions anyway. or maybe there are some, willing to take the risk
Can you explain the second layer solution?
Even if there’s a second layer solution you’re talking about then how will you fix double spend problem with unconfirmed transactions, which is unfixable because you’ll have to wait for 1 conf.. atleast and that will take a lot of time considering the queue of customers behind you waiting for you to make complete your payment, funny.
sorry, i missed your question. you always have to wait for at least 1 conf, transactions in the mempool don't even count as final in my mind. for example on the lightning network you open a channel with 1 transaction on the base layer, you wait for as many confirmations/blocks you like, after that you can use the channel "infinitely" until one day you settle on the base layer (1 more transaction). so if everything works as expected you touch twice the base layer to do "unlimited" transactions inside the channel. you go to the merchant with an already open and confirmed channel, you don't open a channel when you are standing in line to buy something. hope that is clear. the lightning network is fascinating, you should look into it
(there are other scaling solutions, but i am digging into lightning atm)Aren't second layer solutions mainly meant to solve micro transaction problems? Who is going to try a double spend attack for a couple of dollars? I am not quite sure if I understand all of the second layer solutions, but would someone who is willing to double spend attack a second layer transaction also have to have the majority of the hash power?
see my answer above, there is no problem with double spends (someone more intelligent than me correct me if i am wrong). and you are right, that second layer solutions are primarly meant to buy a coffee for example, a transaction not everyone running a full node needs to have in its ledger. but that doesn't exclude larger transactions. on the lightning network they removed a limit not long ago, so now there are quit big transactions possible. depends on how you define big, we mostly compare the sats sent to the dollar value, which will go up infinitely in my opinion
i disagree. you are completely ignoring second layer solutions
comparing the rbf feature with paypals reversability is also a wide stretch. i wouldn't count transactions in the mempool as final, that is what you basically also say. but no "honest" vendor should accept zero confirmation transactions anyway. or maybe there are some, willing to take the risk
Can you explain the second layer solution?
Even if there’s a second layer solution you’re talking about then how will you fix double spend problem with unconfirmed transactions, which is unfixable because you’ll have to wait for 1 conf.. atleast and that will take a lot of time considering the queue of customers behind you waiting for you to make complete your payment, funny.
Aren't second layer solutions mainly meant to solve micro transaction problems? Who is going to try a double spend attack for a couple of dollars? I am not quite sure if I understand all of the second layer solutions, but would someone who is willing to double spend attack a second layer transaction also have to have the majority of the hash power?
Unfortunately there are no local providers that allow the use of purchases other than using fiat currency, but for global trade I contacted personally for payment transactions using btc or altcoin because the transaction process is very fast making trade time friendly between sellers and buyers, some of the global trades are very responsive when they are paid with btc.
Well, you can try to use it to buy items P2P, that's what I do whenever I buy a collectible in Facebook Groups or Marketplace, I talk to them if they accept bitcoin or any cryptocurrencies for payment but the only exception is if the price of the collectible are around 4 figures in USD. 
for now we still cannot use bitcoin as a legal medium of exchange for a buying and selling transaction process because my country has not legalized bitcoin as a legal medium of exchange in my country. legal. but if it's already valid I think everyone will also want to do that. moreover we can also use large amounts to make these transactions
Well, I would love to use it as payment but unfortunately, --here in my country there are no private establishments that accept bitcoin as a mode of payment but there is an exchange or a local wallet that support it as an E-payment system through fiat but you need to convert your bitcoin into fiat and then use as a payment system, not exactly you will use bitcoin as payment.
However, for me --most likely I will never spend my bitcoin if that is not necessary, I prefer to store it and make the value increase.
However, for me --most likely I will never spend my bitcoin if that is not necessary, I prefer to store it and make the value increase.
Unfortunately there are no local providers that allow the use of purchases other than using fiat currency, but for global trade I contacted personally for payment transactions using btc or altcoin because the transaction process is very fast making trade time friendly between sellers and buyers, some of the global trades are very responsive when they are paid with btc.
it's not that I don't want to pay with bitcoin, but my country has.not.ratified bitcoin in.that country, if.later this country wants.to adopt.bitcoin as a legal medium of exchange then I will do the same.thing that I will do to pay for anything I veli with payments.using bitcoin, we currently. cannot.do it because my country has.not yet.adopted it, except for the country of el Salvador which may have adopted.bitcoin as a legal currency as a means.of payment
Of course but most of my purchase using bitcoins are big, probably in my country's currency it would be 6 figures so yes I do spend it on something whenever the opportunity permits to do so. I do hodl still but if I really want or need that thing and I don't have the fiat to buy it and I can buy it using bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies, I would grab the opportunity.
I agree, when there are chances to spend BTC instead of fiat, of course, I do it but it never comes at the risk of not being left in the market. While, it's important to HODL it is also just as important to make sure that you can sustain your expanses without getting into unnecessary debt 
i disagree. you are completely ignoring second layer solutions
comparing the rbf feature with paypals reversability is also a wide stretch. i wouldn't count transactions in the mempool as final, that is what you basically also say. but no "honest" vendor should accept zero confirmation transactions anyway. or maybe there are some, willing to take the risk
Can you explain the second layer solution?
Even if there’s a second layer solution you’re talking about then how will you fix double spend problem with unconfirmed transactions, which is unfixable because you’ll have to wait for 1 conf.. atleast and that will take a lot of time considering the queue of customers behind you waiting for you to make complete your payment, funny.
Quote
Do you pay with Bitcoin whenever you're able to?
Yes, why not. I'm in a country that still has regulation that prohibit the use of bitcoin as a means of payment. But I can still pay anything in bitcoin if the merchant agrees to accept bitcoin as a mean of payment. Previously I've bought voucher from someone several time and sent them bitcoin as a medium of exchange and I think that's okay right?
What I think is just like PayPal has a function to reverse a transaction bitcoin has the same feature which is being able to Double spend any transaction which is RBF.
So it's a necessity to wait for at least 1 confirmation when accepting bitcoin, especially the transaction that's using RBF, I'm not sure if transactions not using RBF can also be used to double-spend but I heard it is possible to.
But waiting for a single confirmation in the traditional network of bitcoin will take at least 6-40 minutes, considering the minimum sat/B fee is paid for it to be included in the next block for sure, which is quite a hassle and you'll have to wait a lot if you're not in luck when using bitcoin to pay to a casual store or cafe, to fix this issue we can have apps that will pay directly to the store after using bitcoin to buy their credits, again you're using a third party to store your bitcoin in form of cash so it's not bitcoin completely but it's the only reason it will work.
So it's a necessity to wait for at least 1 confirmation when accepting bitcoin, especially the transaction that's using RBF, I'm not sure if transactions not using RBF can also be used to double-spend but I heard it is possible to.
But waiting for a single confirmation in the traditional network of bitcoin will take at least 6-40 minutes, considering the minimum sat/B fee is paid for it to be included in the next block for sure, which is quite a hassle and you'll have to wait a lot if you're not in luck when using bitcoin to pay to a casual store or cafe, to fix this issue we can have apps that will pay directly to the store after using bitcoin to buy their credits, again you're using a third party to store your bitcoin in form of cash so it's not bitcoin completely but it's the only reason it will work.
i disagree. you are completely ignoring second layer solutions
comparing the rbf feature with paypals reversability is also a wide stretch. i wouldn't count transactions in the mempool as final, that is what you basically also say. but no "honest" vendor should accept zero confirmation transactions anyway. or maybe there are some, willing to take the risk
— Let's have some fun.
I believe that the majority of the forum users want to see Bitcoin being globally adopted, including myself; I imagine people using it in their daily transactions for food, coffee etc. Lightning payments can tackle the scaling issue and the only thing left for Bitcoin to be used as a currency from the whole world is its mass usage. If the adoption rate increased so would the price's standability.
So, do you set a good example and pay with Bitcoin whenever you're able to or do you prefer not to spend your coins? I'll speak my personal view about this, in my country none of the merchants accept it and I rarely buy some hosting services from the internet. If they do accept it, I'll pay for it, but not because it satisfies me; it's just that I can't with PayPal. I'd prefer paying with PayPal for online services, because I may be scammed if they aren't popular.
Not sure why irreversibility is an advantage when you're paying an unknown person online. That's why I'd prefer having a third party for my online transactions.
I believe that the majority of the forum users want to see Bitcoin being globally adopted, including myself; I imagine people using it in their daily transactions for food, coffee etc. Lightning payments can tackle the scaling issue and the only thing left for Bitcoin to be used as a currency from the whole world is its mass usage. If the adoption rate increased so would the price's standability.
So, do you set a good example and pay with Bitcoin whenever you're able to or do you prefer not to spend your coins? I'll speak my personal view about this, in my country none of the merchants accept it and I rarely buy some hosting services from the internet. If they do accept it, I'll pay for it, but not because it satisfies me; it's just that I can't with PayPal. I'd prefer paying with PayPal for online services, because I may be scammed if they aren't popular.
Not sure why irreversibility is an advantage when you're paying an unknown person online. That's why I'd prefer having a third party for my online transactions.
What I think is just like PayPal has a function to reverse a transaction bitcoin has the same feature which is being able to Double spend any transaction which is RBF.
So it's a necessity to wait for at least 1 confirmation when accepting bitcoin, especially the transaction that's using RBF, I'm not sure if transactions not using RBF can also be used to double-spend but I heard it is possible to.
But waiting for a single confirmation in the traditional network of bitcoin will take at least 6-40 minutes, considering the minimum sat/B fee is paid for it to be included in the next block for sure, which is quite a hassle and you'll have to wait a lot if you're not in luck when using bitcoin to pay to a casual store or cafe, to fix this issue we can have apps that will pay directly to the store after using bitcoin to buy their credits, again you're using a third party to store your bitcoin in form of cash so it's not bitcoin completely but it's the only reason it will work.
Just being honest, most of my Bitcoins are used for paying most of my bills; online payments are available; I convert it to fiat then use it to pay. It is very convenient. I just had those times I regret when the market became bullish. I already adapted to it and didn't feel bad about it.
I am like you every month, I pay BTC for electricity, network money, as well as many other profitable transactions, so I feel BTC has existed in my life quite a lot.
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