Topic: Do you see individual satoshi becoming valuable? - page 2. (Read 336 times)
With these mining fees? Hard to tell. Even if they somehow become valuable, you won’t be able to move them probably. (Unless they are on lightning network but this is another topic) Right now the miner fees are pretty damn high. You need to pay like $5 to move your funds in a reasonable time and imo you should be moving at least $1000 to make that tx fee worthwhile. Otherwise legacy banking is cheaper and faster. (Sadly) Ordinals/nft’s should he rolled back imo. Btc was fine before that update.
Bitcoin will eventually be in the millions of dollars, which means Sats will eventually be worth cents. $1 mil btc = $0.01 sat.
I doubt you consider a few cents valuable so no, sats will not be valuable.
As for $15 million bitcoin as people on the thread are talking about for some reason, that's numerous decades away, depending on how much the dollar inflates over time. I'd be looking for Bitcoin to reach $1 million around 2040, passing $2 million by 2050, though by then $2 million might only be worth something like $1.2 million in today's dollars with 2-3% annual USD inflation. By that time of course Bitcoin's appreciation will be much much slower than today, but when $1 million is only a 50% gain it'll probably be gaining a million dollars every few years.
So in the 2040s and 2050s I'd expect to see 1 Sat worth 1 to 5 cents. Much much later when we're all dead a Sat may be worth dollars, but that's when dollars are nearly worthless compared to today.
I doubt you consider a few cents valuable so no, sats will not be valuable.
As for $15 million bitcoin as people on the thread are talking about for some reason, that's numerous decades away, depending on how much the dollar inflates over time. I'd be looking for Bitcoin to reach $1 million around 2040, passing $2 million by 2050, though by then $2 million might only be worth something like $1.2 million in today's dollars with 2-3% annual USD inflation. By that time of course Bitcoin's appreciation will be much much slower than today, but when $1 million is only a 50% gain it'll probably be gaining a million dollars every few years.
So in the 2040s and 2050s I'd expect to see 1 Sat worth 1 to 5 cents. Much much later when we're all dead a Sat may be worth dollars, but that's when dollars are nearly worthless compared to today.
As each halving is passing and this block reward decrease has started sounding like a big deal to me. Does anyone else also see individual satoshi becoming valuable in future?
It will become valuable but in long future, because there are around 8 zeros in satoshi for it to become more valuable in the Future, the value of overall 1 BTC should be in millions then the satoshi will become more valuable. We are wasting these small Satoshi to make payments but when the time comes and Satoshi will get more value. It all depends on the demand and supply and I have seen it, like back in time I used to pay fees in ETH and I did not mind paying huge fees in ETH because $ was low but now when I look at them the prices of the same ETH has been increased.
I know in the future due to demand and supply each satoshi will have a higher value than now.
No. I think BTC tops out at 10 to 15 million.. Which means 15 cents per sat.
Check my math.
0.00000001. 100 million sats to a coin . so 100mill x 15 cents you got a 15 million dollar coin.
with a 15 cent sat. maybe in 2050 to 2060 it happens.
i dont care for merit. so when i give it i give big. just to use it upCheck my math.
0.00000001. 100 million sats to a coin . so 100mill x 15 cents you got a 15 million dollar coin.
with a 15 cent sat. maybe in 2050 to 2060 it happens.
if one sat became $0.15 (1btc=$15m)
if one tx was 1sat/byte and the leanest tx is 226bytes.. it would cost $33.90
if one tx was 10sat/byte and the leanest tx is 226bytes.. it would cost $339
who would use bitcoin if it cost $339 per tx even at just 10sat/byte
we would need to move the sat/byte to say/kb where tx priority bidding starts at xsat per 100byte
meaning a 226byte tx is 3sat per '1sat per 100byte' meaning $0.30
meaning a 226byte tx is 23sat per '10sat per 100byte' meaning $3.00
as for the math of 2050-2060 of a $15m btc .. is actually reasonable
but i do see people in many topics that think $10m will happen within the decade or next 6 years(2 halvings).
well im sorry it wont happen that soon
what people have to realise is that we are not going to see 20x per ATH cycle
we wont be $37.5k->$750k->$15m meaning 15m within a decade.. sorry i just dont see it
we are instead already seeing
$0.30->$30->$1200->$20k->$70k
100x 40x 16k 3.5x
we are slowing down on the multiples
i dont see 2025 ATH being $750k or $15m.. i see it 2025 as 3x of last ATH so around $210k
i dont see 2029 ATH being $750k or $15m.. i see it 2029 as 2.5x of last ATH so under $525k
i dont see 2033 ATH being $750k or $15m.. i see it 2033 as 2.25x of last ATH so under $1.18m
and then just
2x 1.8x 1.6x 1.4x 1.2x
2037: $2.36m 2041: $4.248m 2045:$6.8m 2049:$9.51m 2053:$11.41m
then flatlines (tx fee's take over mining reward)
meaning a $10m+ wont happen before 2050
I prefer a 0.0001 minimum send and 0.00001 minimum fee. Right now today if possible.
I think BTC keeps try to fight scrypt LTC/DOGE and no matter what it does it can be match by scrypt. Which means the 12 block to 1 block per 10 minutes will always favor LTC/DOGE for small value moves.
LN is a bad idea or a good idea or a neutral idea take yo pick. And if it is good LTC does the same and Doge does the same.
bigger block size good bad or neutral BTC goes to 16mb turns out good and LTC+ Doge goes to 16mb.
I think BTC needs to cut loose small transactions and give them over to scrypt.
But WTF do I know? I just mine BTC+LTC+Doge and all is safe.
As each halving is passing and this block reward decrease has started sounding like a big deal to me. Does anyone else also see individual satoshi becoming valuable in future?
Your question is valid and is of great importance but at the moment satoshi does not matter that much because if it would be of that importance then the websites that are giving free BTC in satoshies will not be giving them like they are giving it now. For example, many of us might have used the Avive app, I am not endorsing them just stating some knowledge that they give free satoshis weekly even if the wallet is custodial but they are giving it.Left it, it is custodial and it might be fake but many BTC faucets are also giving free satoshies for little work. The thing is, in the past BTC was just like of the same value as Satoshi is today. That's why many platforms were giving away 1 or more than 1 BTC for simple tasks. If you think 1 BTC is a lot and I am wrong here then you can reduce it to half BTC.
The point is, in the past 1BTC was of not that important and the acquisition of it was easy but today it is impossible for us to acquire one using the same platform. A time will come in the future when this single satoshi will have the same value as of 1 BTC today have. But it will be after many long years. And in reality, 1 satoshi might not reach the price of 1 BTC but metaphorically speaking, it will.
Well, it doesn't have to reach $100 million (or $1 per satoshi) for satoshi to be considered valuable, although that depends on what the op means by valuable. If it's in a sense that even owning, say, 50 satoshi is a lot of money, then no, not very realistic. But if it's in a sense that it would be more convenient to refer to amounts in satoshis (say, 1 thousand satoshis), then I'd say that when Bitcoin is at $10 million (or 10 cents per satoshi), I think it would be a good time to switch. But I'm not sure if we'll ever see Bitcoin get there, so in the foreseeable future satoshis will remain insignificant.
it doesnt matter if 1 sat is seen as X value..
if people cannot spend as just one unit 1 sat. then people wont care..
if we get to a paradigm where a tx fee is 1sat and where people transact at a min of 100sat to feel the fee is fair(1%).. it would be a measure of 100sat people will want to value the price of things as.. because 100sat(1bit) is their minimum spend amount
EG if the cheapest product people can buy with a debit card without the merchant declining due to fees was $1.. then no one would care about how valuable a penny is even if it cost 3cents to make 1cent.. people just wont use or care about pennies if they can buy anything with it.
so if 100sat is the minimum spending amount of say $10. where yes 1sat =10cent and 1btc = $10m
people wont be looking at sat value. because they cant spend 1sat they will look at the 1bit(100sat) value
they would look at how many products they can buy with 100sat (1bit)
much like fiat. no one cares about the creation cost of penny or dimes (1-10cent). most look at a $10 bank note and think about how many loaves of bread it can buy
people dont care about pocket chance value of metal disks. they care about bank note value
As Philip is able to explain the sats to Bitcoin conversion for each sat into centavo. I also think that it's going to take time if each sats will have value in the future.
To make it short, and for other calculation. It's going to be with a dollar per satoshi.
1 BTC = 100M sats = $100M to make it at least $1 per sat.
And if it's going to be in cents as per philip's calculation, that's still going to require a lot of price and market cap for Bitcoin to achieve it.
Well, it doesn't have to reach $100 million (or $1 per satoshi) for satoshi to be considered valuable, although that depends on what the op means by valuable. If it's in a sense that even owning, say, 50 satoshi is a lot of money, then no, not very realistic. But if it's in a sense that it would be more convenient to refer to amounts in satoshis (say, 1 thousand satoshis), then I'd say that when Bitcoin is at $10 million (or 10 cents per satoshi), I think it would be a good time to switch. But I'm not sure if we'll ever see Bitcoin get there, so in the foreseeable future satoshis will remain insignificant. To make it short, and for other calculation. It's going to be with a dollar per satoshi.
1 BTC = 100M sats = $100M to make it at least $1 per sat.
And if it's going to be in cents as per philip's calculation, that's still going to require a lot of price and market cap for Bitcoin to achieve it.
I don't think a single sat will have much usable value as money against the USD but I could see a sat being used in other economies where the fiat currency is much weaker.
I could also see sats used by robots and AI as money where a sat was used for payment for micro services.
All of the Ordinals degens seem to think that some of these "rare" sats are worth a lot of money but I don't think NFTs are a viable tool for anything other than online trading cards that are verifiably scarce.
I could also see sats used by robots and AI as money where a sat was used for payment for micro services.
All of the Ordinals degens seem to think that some of these "rare" sats are worth a lot of money but I don't think NFTs are a viable tool for anything other than online trading cards that are verifiably scarce.
As each halving is passing and this block reward decrease has started sounding like a big deal to me. Does anyone else also see individual satoshi becoming valuable in future?
No. I think BTC tops out at 10 to 15 million.. Which means 15 cents per sat.
Check my math.
0.00000001. 100 million sats to a coin . so 100mill x 15 cents you got a 15 million dollar coin.
with a 15 cent sat. maybe in 2050 to 2060 it happens.
In future, if the BTC reach the price of 15 million per BTC then one sats will be worth 15 cents.
Highly unlikely IMO.
Maybe I am wrong. who knows. Future is unknown.
As each halving is passing and this block reward decrease has started sounding like a big deal to me. Does anyone else also see individual satoshi becoming valuable in future?
No. I think BTC tops out at 10 to 15 million.. Which means 15 cents per sat.
Check my math.
0.00000001. 100 million sats to a coin . so 100mill x 15 cents you got a 15 million dollar coin.
with a 15 cent sat. maybe in 2050 to 2060 it happens.
As each halving is passing and this block reward decrease has started sounding like a big deal to me. Does anyone else also see individual satoshi becoming valuable in future?
As long as bitcoin price continues to appreciate, the worth of each Satoshi will continue to increase with time. But achieving such a very big and reasonable amount that a Satoshi will worth will take several years for that to happen. For Satoshi to worth at least a reasonable amount, 1BTC must have worth at least a 100 million dollar, isn’t that not a long time to come from now? It can be possible, but for how long will it take for that to happen, maybe we will be no more to witness it.
As each halving is passing and this block reward decrease has started sounding like a big deal to me. Does anyone else also see individual satoshi becoming valuable in future?
Well, this whole frenzy about ordinals has shown that some people think that individual satoshis can be worth a lot of money, regardless of the current price of BTC, halvings or anything else. It's not something interesting to me personally, but I can understand that some people want to monetize everything possible that has to do with Bitcoin.
Besides, I don't see the reason why people are so obsessed with how much one satoshi will be worth in the future - why look at things at such a low level? Perhaps it would be easiest to conclude that every satoshi you have today will be worth a lot more in the future, and everything else is just speculation and throwing around random numbers.
As each halving is passing and this block reward decrease has started sounding like a big deal to me. Does anyone else also see individual satoshi becoming valuable in future?
If you are sensitive to the value of Satoshi itself, you will discover that it is increasing and this is normal. Satoshi is the smallest unit of Bitcoin, so it's Bitcoin itself but in a minute small amount, therefore as the value of Bitcoin appreciates, it's technically right for the value of Satoshi to rise. The same thing goes for when it decreases.And now, Bitcoin appreciates and has good future prospects, so yes, Satoshi's value will rise in the future.
Earlier than this, if you noticed the value of Satoshi, let's say late last year till early this year, each Satoshi was worth about $0.03, but now, it's $0.04+. This is because the value of Bitcoin has increased, and it will continue to grow if Bitcoin grows.
who would use bitcoin if it cost $339 per tx even at just 10sat/byte
This is assuming that by that time no one has figured out a decent way of getting people to transact with bitcoin without paying base-chain fees after every single transaction, yea? If we're talking about decades from now, we should have figured something out by then.
this is just about 1 tx at 10sat per byte...
its not talking about the total fees for the block of all tx added up to whatever scaled blocksize of "every single transaction"
as i stated in other post without even figuring out scaling blocksize to fit more tx. we would need to scale down the sat per tx fee
we would need to move the sat/byte to say/kb where tx priority bidding starts at xsat per 100byte
meaning a 226byte tx is 3sat per '1sat per 100byte' meaning $0.30
meaning a 226byte tx is 23sat per '10sat per 100byte' meaning $3.00
meaning a 226byte tx is 3sat per '1sat per 100byte' meaning $0.30
meaning a 226byte tx is 23sat per '10sat per 100byte' meaning $3.00
the node software right now already is defaulted to start 'fee priority' bidding in whole sats and whole byte amounts
where its 1000sat/kb that increment in 1000sat/kb amounts.. to be the 1sat 2sat increments per byte
we need to start at 100sat/kb(23sat for lean tx) incrementing per 10sat/kb instead of 1000sat/kb
then in years
we need to start at 10sat/kb(3sat for lean tx) incrementing per 1sat/kb instead of 1000sat/kb
who would use bitcoin if it cost $339 per tx even at just 10sat/byte
This is assuming that by that time no one has figured out a decent way of getting people to transact with bitcoin without paying base-chain fees after every single transaction, yea? If we're talking about decades from now, we should have figured something out by then.
who would use bitcoin if it cost $339 per tx even at just 10sat/byte
It depends on how much $339 is worth 
Considering how dedollarisation has been speeding up and how possible it is to see dollar value tanking hard, bitcoin reaching millions against dollar is not as far a you'd think. After all the current transaction fees of 1 sat/vbyte is about 300 in a bunch of currencies like the Colombian Peso
lets inflate it
imagine tx fee this spring was 1x bread loaf earlier this year with not much complaint ($2) so consider that the "normal" feeling pre meme junk
2023 $2 breadloaf at a 2% inflation is $3.38 in 2050 so $339=100 loaves
2023 $2 breadloaf at a 4% inflation is $5.99 in 2050 so $339=56 loaves
2023 $2 breadloaf at a 6% inflation is $10.22 in 2050 so $339=33 loaves
2023 $2 breadloaf at a 8% inflation is $17.25 in 2050 so $339=19 loaves
2023 $2 breadloaf at a 10% inflation is $28.84 in 2050 so $339=11 loaves
2023 $2 breadloaf at a 20% inflation is $329.86 in 2050 so $339=1 loaf
inflation needs to perpetually be 20% a year for the next 27 years for a $339 fee to feel "normal" equivalent to a loaf of bread
where as rationally it would be 2-6% inflation of fiat. meaning tx fee's will feel 33-100x above "normal" use
Chances are low for each satoshi to become valuable. As someone else did the math in this thread, it requires Bitcoin to reach $15 Million before one satoshi is at $0.15 which is not even half a dollar. So that makes it individually not worth anything. However, keep collecting sats and soon it will be a good huge amount. And yes, TX fee needs to be low if you want everyone to use Bitcoin. That's also a problem that needs to be fixed.
who would use bitcoin if it cost $339 per tx even at just 10sat/byte
It depends on how much $339 is worth Considering how dedollarisation has been speeding up and how possible it is to see dollar value tanking hard, bitcoin reaching millions against dollar is not as far a you'd think. After all the current transaction fees of 1 sat/vbyte is about 300 in a bunch of currencies like the Colombian Peso
No. I think BTC tops out at 10 to 15 million.. Which means 15 cents per sat.
Check my math.
0.00000001. 100 million sats to a coin . so 100mill x 15 cents you got a 15 million dollar coin.
with a 15 cent sat. maybe in 2050 to 2060 it happens.
i dont care for merit. so when i give it i give big. just to use it upCheck my math.
0.00000001. 100 million sats to a coin . so 100mill x 15 cents you got a 15 million dollar coin.
with a 15 cent sat. maybe in 2050 to 2060 it happens.
if one sat became $0.15 (1btc=$15m)
if one tx was 1sat/byte and the leanest tx is 226bytes.. it would cost $33.90
if one tx was 10sat/byte and the leanest tx is 226bytes.. it would cost $339
who would use bitcoin if it cost $339 per tx even at just 10sat/byte
we would need to move the sat/byte to say/kb where tx priority bidding starts at xsat per 100byte
meaning a 226byte tx is 3sat per '1sat per 100byte' meaning $0.30
meaning a 226byte tx is 23sat per '10sat per 100byte' meaning $3.00
as for the math of 2050-2060 of a $15m btc .. is actually reasonable
but i do see people in many topics that think $10m will happen within the decade or next 6 years(2 halvings).
well im sorry it wont happen that soon
what people have to realise is that we are not going to see 20x per ATH cycle
we wont be $37.5k->$750k->$15m meaning 15m within a decade.. sorry i just dont see it
we are instead already seeing
$0.30->$30->$1200->$20k->$70k
100x 40x 16k 3.5x
we are slowing down on the multiples
i dont see 2025 ATH being $750k or $15m.. i see it 2025 as 3x of last ATH so around $210k
i dont see 2029 ATH being $750k or $15m.. i see it 2029 as 2.5x of last ATH so under $525k
i dont see 2033 ATH being $750k or $15m.. i see it 2033 as 2.25x of last ATH so under $1.18m
and then just
2x 1.8x 1.6x 1.4x 1.2x
2037: $2.36m 2041: $4.248m 2045:$6.8m 2049:$9.51m 2053:$11.41m
then flatlines (tx fee's take over mining reward)
meaning a $10m+ wont happen before 2050
It is practically difficult for individual Satoshis to become of great value in the future because we have large numbers of Satoshis, where every 1 Bitcoin contains 100 million Satoshis. This requires that the value of Bitcoins become millions of dollars in order for individual Satoshis to obtain great value.
According to the economic factors known to everyone, Bitcoin is difficult to exceed a million dollars by much, and even if we assume that it reaches 10 million dollars in the distant future, the value of 1 satoshi will remain rather low, not exceeding 10 cents.
According to the economic factors known to everyone, Bitcoin is difficult to exceed a million dollars by much, and even if we assume that it reaches 10 million dollars in the distant future, the value of 1 satoshi will remain rather low, not exceeding 10 cents.
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