to go from no fee to their small 0.65% fee when the gox has an even smaller small starting fee of 0.6% on a sliding downward scale of smallness strikes me as loony
To have a 0.0% fee strikes me as loony. 
Topic: Do you think Bitcoinica should switch to TradeHill? [Edited] (Read 7015 times)
to go from no fee to their small 0.65% fee when the gox has an even smaller small starting fee of 0.6% on a sliding downward scale of smallness strikes me as loony, especially as their spreads are normally much wider due to their smaller volume 
which now will get even smaller I expect
which now will get even smaller I expect 
i would also like to see intersango getting a bit more attraction, since it is a reliable and for-free bitcoin exchange and has a great API (as far as i can tell).
(mail from Intersango in my inbox)Quote
Dear users,
We have enjoyed providing people for many months now with a safe and reliable place to buy bitcoins. We are proud to be the only exchange owned and operated by core bitcoin developers. This is why, despite not charging any commission, we have proven ourselves to have the highest level of professionalism, security and customer support in an industry where it is not the norm.
In a week however, we will be monetizing and charging a small 0.65% fee on trades as of 2012-01-03 24:00 GMT to keep Intersango running. This will allow us also to develop Intersango even further and provide even faster responses and more importantly faster resolutions to support inquiries.
We have enjoyed providing people for many months now with a safe and reliable place to buy bitcoins. We are proud to be the only exchange owned and operated by core bitcoin developers. This is why, despite not charging any commission, we have proven ourselves to have the highest level of professionalism, security and customer support in an industry where it is not the norm.
In a week however, we will be monetizing and charging a small 0.65% fee on trades as of 2012-01-03 24:00 GMT to keep Intersango running. This will allow us also to develop Intersango even further and provide even faster responses and more importantly faster resolutions to support inquiries.
We should be glad that it's a small 0.65% fee though. A large 0.65% fee would just be too much in my opinion.
Yes, I'm aware that real-world transactions can be difficult to handle due to non-standard interfaces. But that's not my competitive edge. I'm good at outdoing your 10% codebase.
You know that not everything in a business is solved by coding right? In fact, coding itself is probably the least important activity. I have never ran an exchange or a business, but I can easily guess that you can't add support for lots of different payment methods in a snap.
Just look at the top complaints from people here. All you see is: "I can't withdraw.", "I need to verify the account.", "My bank transfer hasn't cleared", "MtGox doesn't answer my questions", etc. You don't see anyone saying: "Oh, MagicalTux clearly didn't write that method right. He should have used an HashMap instead of an HashTable". Running an exchange goes way beyond the ability to write Ruby.
My vote goes to anything but MtGox. I still believe that we can have a more balanced market.
After reading about all the problems people have had at Tradehill depositing and withdrawing funds I think you should stay away from that exchange.
What are you talking about? I withdrew all my funds today no problem.
You must not be in the US.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tradehill-suspension-of-us-wire-deposits-withdrawals-56599
Maybe not. Is Illinois in the US?
That is weird. You must be one of the lucky ones. By the sounds of it you should stay away from tradehill from now on.
Well, I can't speak for wire transfers or Paxum. I withdrew BTC just fine though. But then again, I always break up BTC transactions into multiple payments to avoid manual approval. Just common practice.
After reading about all the problems people have had at Tradehill depositing and withdrawing funds I think you should stay away from that exchange.
What are you talking about? I withdrew all my funds today no problem.
You must not be in the US.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tradehill-suspension-of-us-wire-deposits-withdrawals-56599
Maybe not. Is Illinois in the US?
That is weird. You must be one of the lucky ones. By the sounds of it you should stay away from tradehill from now on.
After reading about all the problems people have had at Tradehill depositing and withdrawing funds I think you should stay away from that exchange.
What are you talking about? I withdrew all my funds today no problem.
You must not be in the US.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tradehill-suspension-of-us-wire-deposits-withdrawals-56599
Maybe not. Is Illinois in the US?
Edit: Then again, by funds I meant BTC.
After reading about all the problems people have had at Tradehill depositing and withdrawing funds I think you should stay away from that exchange.
What are you talking about? I withdrew all my funds today no problem.
You must not be in the US.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tradehill-suspension-of-us-wire-deposits-withdrawals-56599
After reading about all the problems people have had at Tradehill depositing and withdrawing funds I think you should stay away from that exchange.
What are you talking about? I withdrew all my funds today no problem.
After reading about all the problems people have had at Tradehill depositing and withdrawing funds I think you should stay away from that exchange.
Ok I'll bite.
Have you considered how difficult it would be for you to offer payment services?
Have you considered how difficult it would be for you to offer payment services?
You will have to have Dwolla available or I (and probably many others) will not be able to trade.
+1, and TradeHill hit the nail on the head with free personal checks by mail.
Dwolla + personal checks = Win
Zhou, please create or use an exchange apart from Mt Gox.
I am thinking about the future of BTC.
Thank You for your support.
I am thinking about the future of BTC.
Thank You for your support.
Crypto X Change hasn't been added as a voting option yet we have been #2 in USD & AUD Markets very often over the past couple of weeks, and we are gaining hundreds of users daily now.
The other point is our banking system, as displayed who want's to have their accounts frozen and money held up like what happening right now with the other mentioned exchanges?
There is Zero chance of this happening with Crypto X Change. First we built our financial / banking system, then we built our exchange on top of that to be legal and not have the effects everyone is seeing where accounts are shut down every second week!
So if you wan't a serious exchange, then Crypto is seriously the way to go.
Deposit from any country and native currency into our USD or AUD market for a flat $5 fee, no bank fees or Wire Fees, Unlimited amounts can be sent and withdrawn for the $5 Fee. We cal also payout to any currency / country also for withdraw. No other Exchange has anything even close to this!
We also have deposit & withdraw MtGox Vocuhers
Withdraw to PayPal and BitInstant.
www.cryptoxchange.com
The other point is our banking system, as displayed who want's to have their accounts frozen and money held up like what happening right now with the other mentioned exchanges?
There is Zero chance of this happening with Crypto X Change. First we built our financial / banking system, then we built our exchange on top of that to be legal and not have the effects everyone is seeing where accounts are shut down every second week!
So if you wan't a serious exchange, then Crypto is seriously the way to go.
Deposit from any country and native currency into our USD or AUD market for a flat $5 fee, no bank fees or Wire Fees, Unlimited amounts can be sent and withdrawn for the $5 Fee. We cal also payout to any currency / country also for withdraw. No other Exchange has anything even close to this!
We also have deposit & withdraw MtGox Vocuhers
Withdraw to PayPal and BitInstant.
www.cryptoxchange.com
I'd like to add:
- Predictable deposit/withdrawal procedures, times, etc. and predictable identity verification procedures if necessary
- Liquidity rebate (a fraction of the fees charged) to pay liquidity providers/market makers for providing order book depth
And eventually:
- Options and futures on BTCUSD (settled in USD for merchant hedging)
- Options and futures on BTCUSD and other exchange rates, stocks, indexes, commodities, etc. (settled in BTC for trading/synthetic investing in the outside economy)
- Predictable deposit/withdrawal procedures, times, etc. and predictable identity verification procedures if necessary
- Liquidity rebate (a fraction of the fees charged) to pay liquidity providers/market makers for providing order book depth
And eventually:
- Options and futures on BTCUSD (settled in USD for merchant hedging)
- Options and futures on BTCUSD and other exchange rates, stocks, indexes, commodities, etc. (settled in BTC for trading/synthetic investing in the outside economy)
That's what I am aiming at with ICBIT platform. In fact, I just put up the first part of it for live trading, the topic with explanation is here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/icbit-new-exchange-60548.
I think Bitcoinica should have practice trading platform so that users could practice on the site or test their API like Interactive Broker and most other forex exchanges.
Ok I'll bite.
Have you considered how difficult it would be for you to offer payment services?
Have you considered how difficult it would be for you to offer payment services?
You will have to have Dwolla available or I (and probably many others) will not be able to trade.
This would sell me! Though, I have no real complaints about Gox other than the API/Web Sockets.
I go where the volume is.
So this is all you have to say to a young entepreneur? Dispraising comments? Is that how you would raise your kids? Worst case scenario, mr Tong learns from the experience.
Or is there perhaps another motive for the negative attitude? Why else would you "bite"?
dude, what is your beef? I don't see where you are getting all this. Maybe you two have history in other threads that I don't know about...if not calm the fuck down man...jeez.
the problem with bitcoinica is, that it is mostly a casino - untill you really commit great amounts of time, knowledge and work into it. jut reading an wikipedia article about e.g. elliot waves won't give you enough knowledge to make profit in this market.
i would also like to see intersango getting a bit more attraction, since it is a reliable and for-free bitcoin exchange and has a great API (as far as i can tell).
why must bitcoinica use ONE exchange?!
i would suggest bitcoinica should hedge there orders on many exchanges, lowering the risk of possible 'market manipulation' and also probably doing a big favor to the stability of the bitcoin price across the various markets, cause it would likely reduce arbitrage and give a bigger liquidity as also bigger trading volumes.
@zhou tong: this is exactly what i told you in the first place about 2 months ago: use different markets, not just mtgox.
anyway, the problem of over-leveraged busts and over-leveraged booms won't be solved that way. but after all, that is what we asked for, isn't it?!
--> volatility
i would also like to see intersango getting a bit more attraction, since it is a reliable and for-free bitcoin exchange and has a great API (as far as i can tell).
why must bitcoinica use ONE exchange?!
i would suggest bitcoinica should hedge there orders on many exchanges, lowering the risk of possible 'market manipulation' and also probably doing a big favor to the stability of the bitcoin price across the various markets, cause it would likely reduce arbitrage and give a bigger liquidity as also bigger trading volumes.
@zhou tong: this is exactly what i told you in the first place about 2 months ago: use different markets, not just mtgox.
anyway, the problem of over-leveraged busts and over-leveraged booms won't be solved that way. but after all, that is what we asked for, isn't it?!
--> volatility
Intersango, Patrick, and Amir have a history of beef with Bitcoinica, even publicly calling it "Bitcoinica is a way to separate fools from their money." So, in my opinion there is indeed some negativity until there is some apology or proof.
That is a perfectly accurate way to describe Bitcoinica, and I would be surprised if Zhou Tong himself did not think so or even say so. Big deal. Lots of things are in that category, and Bitcoinica has more of value to add than many of them.
Ok I'll bite.
Have you considered how difficult it would be for you to offer payment services?
Have you considered how difficult it would be for you to offer payment services?
Why would you enter the thread just to say something negative? As an adult, dont you find it inappropriate to just enter the thread to dispraise a 17 year old in his business venture... As a matter of fact, it seems like mr.Tong is the adult (for not calling you an asshole, which you clearly are) and you are the "kid".
hmmm, I did not interpret phantomcircuit's post like that at all
I thought he was just urging Z to build a portal out to the fiat economy, which we desperately need
That's precisely what I was saying, improved liquidity would benefit everybody, even those of us seemingly working at cross purposes.
However a hint of caution is necessary.
Accepting wire transfers, bitcoins, and mtgox codes is orders of magnitude simpler than other payment mechanisms.
Currently about 10% of the intersango code base is actually about exchanging bitcoins ... the rest is handling idiosyncrasies of various insane payment systems.
Intersango, Patrick, and Amir have a history of beef with Bitcoinica, even publicly saying "Bitcoinica is a way to separate fools from their money." So, in my opinion there is indeed some negativity until there is some apology or proof.
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