Do you think SatoshiDice is blockchain spam? Drop their TX's - Solution inside - page 3.

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: SalvorHardin on March 09, 2013, 08:54:47 AM

I am not affliated with Satoshi Dice in any way. But just a head up here since the new SD policy would render the new patch mostly ineffective. Unless you are blocking the specific SD address like Eligius pool.

Yes, tx's sent to 1dice addresses are dropped.
And I know you're not affiliated with SD Wink

SalvorHardin

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I am not affliated with Satoshi Dice in any way. But just a head up here since the new SD policy would render the new patch mostly ineffective. Unless you are blocking the specific SD address like Eligius pool.

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: SalvorHardin on March 09, 2013, 08:45:49 AM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 09, 2013, 08:39:08 AM

Quote from: SalvorHardin on March 09, 2013, 08:10:35 AM

I am not sure why no one has mentioned it here. But starting today, Satoshi dice already changed its method of sending out 1 satoshi for confirming losing bet. Instead, they are now sending out 0.5% of bet amount back for losing bets, regardless of bet size. Given that minimum bet is 0.01 BTC, now all Satoshi Dice losing bet tx starts at 5000 satoshi and up. I presume that SD changed its policy due to the introduction of this patch here.

For a bet of up to 0.10 BTC they will still send a single satoshi because after them taking out the tx fee the value is zero or less. Unless they didn't update the following part

Quote

Transaction Fees

On a win or a lose a transaction fee of 0.0005 is subtracted from the payment amount. If this makes the payment amount zero or less the payment is set to 0.00000001. In the event that the transaction costs us more to send back to you, we pay the fee over 0.0005.

Now I wonder what % of SD bets are equal or less than 0.1 BTC... Dooglus? etotheipi? Tongue

Err.... no. I am mentioning it here because starting today, Satoshi Dice does NOT send out 1 satoshi losing confirmation bet anymore. It sends out 5000 satoshi tx even for losing bet of 0.01 BTC. That is, Satoshi Dice now absorb all tx fee, and return 0.5% of bet amount, even for minimum bet. Previously, it will deduct a tx fee first and send you 1 satoshi. So you need to bet at least 0.2 BTC or so, to get 0.5 mbtc back. But now even 0.01 BTC minimum bet gives you at least 5000 satoshi back. I presume the change is made today because of all the heat and the patch here.

Then the website needs to be updated with the correct info.

SalvorHardin

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Activity: 72

Merit: 10

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 09, 2013, 08:39:08 AM

Quote from: SalvorHardin on March 09, 2013, 08:10:35 AM

I am not sure why no one has mentioned it here. But starting today, Satoshi dice already changed its method of sending out 1 satoshi for confirming losing bet. Instead, they are now sending out 0.5% of bet amount back for losing bets, regardless of bet size. Given that minimum bet is 0.01 BTC, now all Satoshi Dice losing bet tx starts at 5000 satoshi and up. I presume that SD changed its policy due to the introduction of this patch here.

For a bet of up to 0.10 BTC they will still send a single satoshi because after them taking out the tx fee the value is zero or less. Unless they didn't update the following part

Quote

Transaction Fees

On a win or a lose a transaction fee of 0.0005 is subtracted from the payment amount. If this makes the payment amount zero or less the payment is set to 0.00000001. In the event that the transaction costs us more to send back to you, we pay the fee over 0.0005.

Now I wonder what % of SD bets are equal or less than 0.1 BTC... Dooglus? etotheipi? Tongue

Err.... no. I am mentioning it here because starting today, Satoshi Dice does NOT send out 1 satoshi losing confirmation bet anymore. It sends out 5000 satoshi tx even for losing bet of 0.01 BTC. That is, Satoshi Dice now absorb all tx fee, and return 0.5% of bet amount, even for minimum bet. Previously, it will deduct a tx fee first and send you 1 satoshi. So you need to bet at least 0.2 BTC or so, to get 0.5 mbtc back. But now even 0.01 BTC minimum bet gives you at least 5000 satoshi back. I presume the change is made today because of all the heat and the patch here.

Raoul Duke

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Activity: 1358

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Quote from: SalvorHardin on March 09, 2013, 08:10:35 AM

I am not sure why no one has mentioned it here. But starting today, Satoshi dice already changed its method of sending out 1 satoshi for confirming losing bet. Instead, they are now sending out 0.5% of bet amount back for losing bets, regardless of bet size. Given that minimum bet is 0.01 BTC, now all Satoshi Dice losing bet tx starts at 5000 satoshi and up. I presume that SD changed its policy due to the introduction of this patch here.

For a bet of up to 0.10 BTC they will still send a single satoshi because after them taking out the tx fee the value is zero or less. Unless they didn't update the following part

Quote

Transaction Fees

On a win or a lose a transaction fee of 0.0005 is subtracted from the payment amount. If this makes the payment amount zero or less the payment is set to 0.00000001. In the event that the transaction costs us more to send back to you, we pay the fee over 0.0005.

SalvorHardin

member

Activity: 72

Merit: 10

I am not sure why no one has mentioned it here. But starting today, Satoshi dice already changed its method of sending out 1 satoshi for confirming losing bet. Instead, they are now sending out 0.5% of bet amount back for losing bets, regardless of bet size. Given that minimum bet is 0.01 BTC, now all Satoshi Dice losing bet tx starts at 5000 satoshi and up. I presume that SD changed its policy due to the introduction of this patch here.

Evolyn

sr. member

Activity: 376

Merit: 312

Can you say... nighty-night?

Okay, now I filter transactions because I don't like.
Wait! I wrote my own patch, I only relay transactions from people I like - and I like noone, except the one who are payin' me.

Nice way how to turn running nodes into buisness. Nice way how to centralize a decentralized system. Nice way how to let the idea behind bitcoin die.

Why do some people complain if others are using their cpu or bandwith in a peer2peer system? I support the network by connecting to it or i don't. Quite simple? But connecting to the network to gain their benefits without taking the disadvantages sounds greedy and selfish to me.

If I cannot do with my money what I want, someone is telling me what I'm allowed to do ... wait, why I am using bitcoins?

Bitcoin is still beta and the devs are working on it? If scaling, the "transaction spam" (If SD is spam, I stop using bitcoins myself right now), is a unsolveable problem (censoring/filtering is not solving the problem, just hiding) then i guess, an great experiment will fail soon. May I'm wrong, but aren't there already solutions on the paper (satoshis memo) to solve most problems and devs are working how to implement? Devs are smart people and because I'm smarter than they, I cannot watch over the edge and panic.

Killdozer

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Quote

The only incentive satoshi dust has is profit.

You are talking about ignorance?? You don't even know what the service is called, thus don't even know what we are talking about... (It's Dice, jeez...)

Uglux

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The only incentive satoshi dust has is profit. It is a gambling company. They are abusers by definition. They don't care which poor suckers money they take, so why should they care what they leave behind in the blockchain?

Every time you see, that somebody does not care, it is a strong indicator for ignorance, which is a state of being uninformed.

Killdozer

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Quote

I don't really get why all this fuss, I can't really figure a valid reason for such a patch at this point. I have an absolute neutral opinion about SD, I don't use it and don't care either way.

I think a lot of people (including me) think like that, but what I don't understand is why they don't just quietly not use the patch?
It's not the TS that is creating all the drama...

davout

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1davout

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 09, 2013, 05:07:46 AM

I'm not the one pulling math out of my ass to pretend I'm smart and showing that after all I'm just a smartass.

And I'm not making any drama. You and and the other guys who don't agree with this are the real french drama queens in here.
Nobody needs, wants or asked for your approval. Live with it.

I don't really get why all this fuss, I can't really figure a valid reason for such a patch at this point. I have an absolute neutral opinion about SD, I don't use it and don't care either way.

Let's get back to reasons for such a patch :
- Saving CPU cycles
- Saving disk space
- Saving bandwith
- [other ?]

Saving CPU cycles ? Meh. Read Mike Hearn's excellent article about scalability for the figures.
Saving disk space ? Your patch doesn't help, SD txes will eventually make it into a block. (Unless of course everyone is using your patch).
Saving bandwith ? Come on. You still using a 56k ?

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: Anduck on March 09, 2013, 05:17:42 AM

It could end up in a fork, right?

............................................................................... .................WRONG

Killdozer

full member

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Quote

If SatoshiDice can do whetever the fuck they want because they are following protocol rules, then so can I and everyone else.
Don't like what I'm doing? Write a patch for it... Roll Eyes

Good point. Can we all just agree on this?
Bitcoin is about incentives.
SatoshiDice has made an incentive to actually fix the scalability problems (of which there are a lot!).
This guy has made an incentive for services like SatoshiDice to make their presence in the blockchain anonymous.
That's the satoshi genious - make an incentive and things will do themselves. (Well, not themselves, but the community will find a way.)

Anduck

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quack

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 09, 2013, 04:53:52 AM

Quote from: Anduck on March 09, 2013, 04:46:31 AM

psy: IMO you're not helping Bitcoin by spreading scripts to ban some transactions. If bitcoin can't be used like SD does, bitcoin doesn't work. We can't just go ban all the SD-like transaction spamming services, Bitcoin needs to -HANDLE- it. End of.

We can't? Who's gonna stop us?
And for the last time: This isn't banning nor censoring, it's filtering and it's within the protocol rules.
If SatoshiDice can do whetever the fuck they want because they are following protocol rules, then so can I and everyone else.
Don't like what I'm doing? Write a patch for it... Roll Eyes

You think it's totally cool to try to restrict SD transactions from happening? And this indeed is censoring/banning/filtering, you're trying to make clients reject SD transactions. It could end up in a fork, right?
And seriously, no you can't stop all the transaction spamming services. Instead, you could try to fix the actual problem instead of trying to band-aid it.

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: davout on March 09, 2013, 05:00:33 AM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 09, 2013, 04:31:47 AM

So, where is it? Still pulling it out of your ass?

Shits given = 0. Happy?

The french chick inside you must be expressing herself, because you're making ridiculous amounts of drama about such a useless and pointless thing. International woman's day was yesterday, you're a bit off schedule.

I'm not the one pulling math out of my ass to pretend I'm smart and showing that after all I'm just a smartass.

And I'm not making any drama. You and and the other guys who don't agree with this are the real french drama queens in here.
Nobody needs, wants or asked for your approval. Live with it.

davout

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1davout

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 09, 2013, 04:31:47 AM

So, where is it? Still pulling it out of your ass?

Shits given = 0. Happy?

The french chick inside you must be expressing herself, because you're making ridiculous amounts of drama about such a useless and pointless thing. International woman's day was yesterday, you're a bit off schedule.

Raoul Duke

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Merit: 1002

Quote from: Anduck on March 09, 2013, 04:46:31 AM

psy: IMO you're not helping Bitcoin by spreading scripts to ban some transactions. If bitcoin can't be used like SD does, bitcoin doesn't work. We can't just go ban all the SD-like transaction spamming services, Bitcoin needs to -HANDLE- it. End of.

We can't? Who's gonna stop us?
And for the last time: This isn't banning nor censoring, it's filtering and it's within the protocol rules.
If SatoshiDice can do whetever the fuck they want because they are following protocol rules, then so can I and everyone else.
Don't like what I'm doing? Write a patch for it... Roll Eyes

Anduck

legendary

Activity: 1511

Merit: 1072

quack

psy: IMO you're not helping Bitcoin by spreading scripts to ban some transactions. If bitcoin can't be used like SD does, bitcoin doesn't work. We can't just go ban all the SD-like transaction spamming services, Bitcoin needs to -HANDLE- it. End of.

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: davout on March 09, 2013, 04:27:49 AM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 08, 2013, 09:01:42 PM

Can you do the math you did to reach this conclusion and show us?

Yes, I can.

So, where is it? Still pulling it out of your ass?

davout

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1davout

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 08, 2013, 09:01:42 PM

Can you do the math you did to reach this conclusion and show us?

Yes, I can.

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 08, 2013, 09:01:42 PM

Also: It's my computer, I'll spend my CPU cycles as I see fit, and verifying SD tx's before they get included in a block isn't what I want to spend my CPU cycles on, unlike browsing this forum, here I'll spend all CPU cycles it takes without even thinking about it. See the difference?

I'm saying it's retarded, not questioning your right to retardedness. See the difference?

Topic: Do you think SatoshiDice is blockchain spam? Drop their TX's - Solution inside - page 3. (Read 12859 times)