Topic: Do you USE your BTC? - page 47. (Read 31008 times)

Quote from: HarryT1923 on July 06, 2014, 12:35:54 AM

all my coins are bought

Have bought a few games for steam, still hoping more places accepting them (or at least have trusted sites that help to convert it) so I can use more services without entering CC info.

That's actually a great thing. Most places know of Bitcoin and have started to consider Bitcoin so we might hear less of credit card fraud.

Credit card fraud? That's a strange thing to worry about considering one out of every 16-17 Bitcoins belongs to someone who stole it. If you ignore the 5 million or so of hoarded Bitcoins and that means about 1 in 6 Bitcoins have been stolen.

There is a thread on this forum that shows a fraud total of 818,485 stolen Bitcoins worth around $500,000,000.00. That means almost 7% of all Bitcoins in existence have been taken by fraud. Could you imagine a credit card company, or any company for that matter, staying around long if 7% of their business was involved in fraud? I don't think so.

Your $500 million figure is misleading as many of those frauds took place when the price of bitcoin was much lower.

As per https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337.0;all the 2014 equivalent BTC stolen is roughly 22,400 BTC or ~$14 million.

Another point is that some of these coins have subsequently been traded to other users either from the perp selling the coins or from them exchanging them for goods/services. In theory some of the "coins" that were stolen could have been stolen more then once (thief steals coins from victim a, transfers coins to an exchange, and the exchange has all their coins stolen from thief b).

It should also be noted that there is a large percentage of cash that has been at one point stolen.

You're right, it is closer to a billion in today's dollars. Don't forget to add the Gox coins to your number. The Bitcoin economy compared to any other economy in the world is minuscule. The market cap of Apple computers is 50 times larger than Bitcoin. Facebook is 17 times larger. I wonder if 1 in 6 Apple computers are stolen? Of course cash is stolen but Bitcoin isn't cash. He was comparing it to credit card fraud. Oh, with credit cards you are only responsible for the first $50 of loss. If Allinvain were using credit cards his total loss would have been $50.

I was only counting actual thefts in my rough calculation, I would not consider the gox incident a theft, at least not yet. Bitcoin is very similar to cash, with cash whoever is in possession of the cash can spend the cash on goods and services of their choice, the same is true with bitcoin as whoever is in possession of the private keys can send the bitcoin to the address of their choice. The fact that many of the stolen coins have since been spent after being stolen and the fact that bitcoin is fungible would make it so that 1 in 6 btc are not really stolen at the present time as many of these "stolen" coins have been acquired legitimately

CEG5952

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Buy and sell bitcoins,

i can't help but spend it. wish i could save more... Roll Eyes

Haha, same problem here. I took out a few times my initial investment during the last bubble, and sent most to cold storage. The rest is being widdled down from spending as I'm not really trying to scalp this sideways market...

Bitcoin Magazine

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

i use it to buy cigarettes, weed, etc..
miners..
i mean u can buy a lot with it. who wouldn't?

jeffthebaker

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1034

I LOSE bitcoin gambling.... does that count as using it? Tongue

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 05, 2014, 05:02:35 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 04, 2014, 12:07:04 PM

all my coins are bought

Have bought a few games for steam, still hoping more places accepting them (or at least have trusted sites that help to convert it) so I can use more services without entering CC info.

That's actually a great thing. Most places know of Bitcoin and have started to consider Bitcoin so we might hear less of credit card fraud.

Credit card fraud? That's a strange thing to worry about considering one out of every 16-17 Bitcoins belongs to someone who stole it. If you ignore the 5 million or so of hoarded Bitcoins and that means about 1 in 6 Bitcoins have been stolen.

There is a thread on this forum that shows a fraud total of 818,485 stolen Bitcoins worth around $500,000,000.00. That means almost 7% of all Bitcoins in existence have been taken by fraud. Could you imagine a credit card company, or any company for that matter, staying around long if 7% of their business was involved in fraud? I don't think so.

Your $500 million figure is misleading as many of those frauds took place when the price of bitcoin was much lower.

As per https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337.0;all the 2014 equivalent BTC stolen is roughly 22,400 BTC or ~$14 million.

Another point is that some of these coins have subsequently been traded to other users either from the perp selling the coins or from them exchanging them for goods/services. In theory some of the "coins" that were stolen could have been stolen more then once (thief steals coins from victim a, transfers coins to an exchange, and the exchange has all their coins stolen from thief b).

It should also be noted that there is a large percentage of cash that has been at one point stolen.

You're right, it is closer to a billion in today's dollars. Don't forget to add the Gox coins to your number. The Bitcoin economy compared to any other economy in the world is minuscule. The market cap of Apple computers is 50 times larger than Bitcoin. Facebook is 17 times larger. I wonder if 1 in 6 Apple computers are stolen? Of course cash is stolen but Bitcoin isn't cash. He was comparing it to credit card fraud. Oh, with credit cards you are only responsible for the first $50 of loss. If Allinvain were using credit cards his total loss would have been $50.

HarryT1923

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

i can't help but spend it. wish i could save more... Roll Eyes

Lorenzo

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 04, 2014, 12:07:04 PM

As everyone knows one of the major problems with Bitcoin economy is hoarding. The idea of this poll is to find out whether the lack of spending in the BTC economy is mainly due to the lack of acceptance of Bitcoin payments, or is it that people can actually buy a good deal of stuff that they need with BTC but choose not to.

In my opinion, Bitcoin can only go up. The only time I would "use" my BTC would be if I thought that whatever I was buying would earn me a greater return on my investment than simply hodling Bitcoin directly. Sad but true.

You could go to the trouble of buying with your bitcoin and immediately replenishing your holding. Like this, you encourage its use and lose nothing.

This is possible, but you would be losing some money via fees and the difference between the buy and sell prices on exchanges. It isn't possible for someone like me however since I usually use LocalBitcoins.com for most of my BTC buying. Sad

Jensown

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

No use spending it before it's value has peaked, aint it so?

DannyElfman

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: eid on July 05, 2014, 03:02:17 AM

all my coins are bought

Have bought a few games for steam, still hoping more places accepting them (or at least have trusted sites that help to convert it) so I can use more services without entering CC info.

That's actually a great thing. Most places know of Bitcoin and have started to consider Bitcoin so we might hear less of credit card fraud.

Credit card fraud? That's a strange thing to worry about considering one out of every 16-17 Bitcoins belongs to someone who stole it. If you ignore the 5 million or so of hoarded Bitcoins and that means about 1 in 6 Bitcoins have been stolen.

There is a thread on this forum that shows a fraud total of 818,485 stolen Bitcoins worth around $500,000,000.00. That means almost 7% of all Bitcoins in existence have been taken by fraud. Could you imagine a credit card company, or any company for that matter, staying around long if 7% of their business was involved in fraud? I don't think so.

Your $500 million figure is misleading as many of those frauds took place when the price of bitcoin was much lower.

As per https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337.0;all the 2014 equivalent BTC stolen is roughly 22,400 BTC or ~$14 million.

Another point is that some of these coins have subsequently been traded to other users either from the perp selling the coins or from them exchanging them for goods/services. In theory some of the "coins" that were stolen could have been stolen more then once (thief steals coins from victim a, transfers coins to an exchange, and the exchange has all their coins stolen from thief b).

It should also be noted that there is a large percentage of cash that has been at one point stolen.

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Erdogan on July 04, 2014, 04:44:07 AM

Quote from: bitcoinforhelp on July 04, 2014, 12:09:22 PM

As everyone knows one of the major problems with Bitcoin economy is hoarding. The idea of this poll is to find out whether the lack of spending in the BTC economy is mainly due to the lack of acceptance of Bitcoin payments, or is it that people can actually buy a good deal of stuff that they need with BTC but choose not to.

In my opinion, Bitcoin can only go up. The only time I would "use" my BTC would be if I thought that whatever I was buying would earn me a greater return on my investment than simply hodling Bitcoin directly. Sad but true.

You could go to the trouble of buying with your bitcoin and immediately replenishing your holding. Like this, you encourage its use and lose nothing.

eid: Everyone doesn't know that, including me. Trade or no trade, someone is always holding the specific coin (output). The question for value is not how much it is traded, but the demand to hold. Sender or receiver.

It wasn't me who said that, but anyway....

Using bitcoin to trade will encourage more businesses to accept it which will in turn bring in more users. This will effect the value. You can hoard your coins all you like, but if there's no perceived use for them, there's no value.

Sorry it was bSpend.

RDMINER

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

My job boss is paying for servers with BTC every month. He payed before with paypall, but paypal banned his account after 8 years for no apparent reason (nothing changed since 8 years).

Where did you find that kind of boss? Are you a programmer or something like that?

eid

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Quote from: Erdogan on July 04, 2014, 04:44:07 AM

Quote from: bitcoinforhelp on July 04, 2014, 12:09:22 PM

As everyone knows one of the major problems with Bitcoin economy is hoarding. The idea of this poll is to find out whether the lack of spending in the BTC economy is mainly due to the lack of acceptance of Bitcoin payments, or is it that people can actually buy a good deal of stuff that they need with BTC but choose not to.

In my opinion, Bitcoin can only go up. The only time I would "use" my BTC would be if I thought that whatever I was buying would earn me a greater return on my investment than simply hodling Bitcoin directly. Sad but true.

You could go to the trouble of buying with your bitcoin and immediately replenishing your holding. Like this, you encourage its use and lose nothing.

eid: Everyone doesn't know that, including me. Trade or no trade, someone is always holding the specific coin (output). The question for value is not how much it is traded, but the demand to hold. Sender or receiver.

It wasn't me who said that, but anyway....

Using bitcoin to trade will encourage more businesses to accept it which will in turn bring in more users. This will effect the value. You can hoard your coins all you like, but if there's no perceived use for them, there's no value.

EternalWingsofGod

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

My job boss is paying for servers with BTC every month. He payed before with paypall, but paypal banned his account after 8 years for no apparent reason (nothing changed since 8 years).

Paypal is an evil company for doing those things to people
Heard many many many similar stories about people having their accounts shut down for no reason.
Glad he uses Bitcoin now

bitcoinforhelp

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

My job boss is paying for servers with BTC every month. He payed before with paypall, but paypal banned his account after 8 years for no apparent reason (nothing changed since 8 years).

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

all my coins are bought

Have bought a few games for steam, still hoping more places accepting them (or at least have trusted sites that help to convert it) so I can use more services without entering CC info.

That's actually a great thing. Most places know of Bitcoin and have started to consider Bitcoin so we might hear less of credit card fraud.

Credit card fraud? That's a strange thing to worry about considering one out of every 16-17 Bitcoins belongs to someone who stole it. If you ignore the 5 million or so of hoarded Bitcoins and that means about 1 in 6 Bitcoins have been stolen.

There is a thread on this forum that shows a fraud total of 818,485 stolen Bitcoins worth around $500,000,000.00. That means almost 7% of all Bitcoins in existence have been taken by fraud. Could you imagine a credit card company, or any company for that matter, staying around long if 7% of their business was involved in fraud? I don't think so.

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1005

As everyone knows one of the major problems with Bitcoin economy is hoarding. The idea of this poll is to find out whether the lack of spending in the BTC economy is mainly due to the lack of acceptance of Bitcoin payments, or is it that people can actually buy a good deal of stuff that they need with BTC but choose not to.

In my opinion, Bitcoin can only go up. The only time I would "use" my BTC would be if I thought that whatever I was buying would earn me a greater return on my investment than simply hodling Bitcoin directly. Sad but true.

You could go to the trouble of buying with your bitcoin and immediately replenishing your holding. Like this, you encourage its use and lose nothing.

eid: Everyone doesn't know that, including me. Trade or no trade, someone is always holding the specific coin (output). The question for value is not how much it is traded, but the demand to hold. Sender or receiver.

eid

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

As everyone knows one of the major problems with Bitcoin economy is hoarding. The idea of this poll is to find out whether the lack of spending in the BTC economy is mainly due to the lack of acceptance of Bitcoin payments, or is it that people can actually buy a good deal of stuff that they need with BTC but choose not to.

In my opinion, Bitcoin can only go up. The only time I would "use" my BTC would be if I thought that whatever I was buying would earn me a greater return on my investment than simply hodling Bitcoin directly. Sad but true.

You could go to the trouble of buying with your bitcoin and immediately replenishing your holding. Like this, you encourage its use and lose nothing.

Lorenzo

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

As everyone knows one of the major problems with Bitcoin economy is hoarding. The idea of this poll is to find out whether the lack of spending in the BTC economy is mainly due to the lack of acceptance of Bitcoin payments, or is it that people can actually buy a good deal of stuff that they need with BTC but choose not to.

In my opinion, Bitcoin can only go up. The only time I would "use" my BTC would be if I thought that whatever I was buying would earn me a greater return on my investment than simply hodling Bitcoin directly. Sad but true.

Skele

full member

Activity: 224

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VocalPlatform.com

It seems a lot of places and sites are starting accepting Bitcoins so, i think that bit by bit the number of Bitcoin holders will be decreased...

Baitty

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Currently held as collateral by monbux