Do your Christmas shopping at businesses that dont convert bitcoin to fiat - page 2.

stoat

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Quote from: n2004al on December 15, 2015, 12:10:48 PM

Quote from: stoat on December 13, 2015, 07:54:13 AM

There needs to be more encouragement for shops to keep bitcoin. There are a few businesses that keep their BTC as BTC and we should be encouraging that. Not using companies that are just using the bitcoin for buzz and cashing in on all of us bitcoin consumers.

There should be a list online of all the businesses that dont convert their bitcoins into fiat. Then we could as consumers make that choice.

What does it mean this? First of all I want to buy something that satisfy me and not bitcoin. Bitcoin is important but not in such kind. Bitcoin cannot condition my life in this way. I am not addicted by bitcoin to choose as a gift for my wife something that satisfy bitcoin but not my wife. If my wife want something that can be bought only in a store which not only don't accept bitcoin but even can hate it, me, for sure, will buy in that store that thing that satisfy my wife. Bitcoin cannot be and cannot be treated like a dictator. Such conception is extremely wrong and make only damage to it. It can and must be accepted only with the free will of everyone who want to use it. Otherwise no one will accept and use it for a long time (even from them who are using it already).

These behaviors are extremely dangerous for the bitcoin and never must be used or accepted from everyone who want that bitcoin have a brilliant future.

Whats wrong with having a list of businesses that do not convert to fiat and allowing consumers to make their own decision? Nothing as far as i can see.

MaritiJames3

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I don't think this will make a difference. Smaller merchants might do this but others still need to convert to fiat. I think this could happen if more people and shops would accept bitcoin.

n2004al

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Quote from: stoat on December 13, 2015, 07:54:13 AM

There needs to be more encouragement for shops to keep bitcoin. There are a few businesses that keep their BTC as BTC and we should be encouraging that. Not using companies that are just using the bitcoin for buzz and cashing in on all of us bitcoin consumers.

There should be a list online of all the businesses that dont convert their bitcoins into fiat. Then we could as consumers make that choice.

What does it mean this? First of all I want to buy something that satisfy me and not bitcoin. Bitcoin is important but not in such kind. Bitcoin cannot condition my life in this way. I am not addicted by bitcoin to choose as a gift for my wife something that satisfy bitcoin but not my wife. If my wife want something that can be bought only in a store which not only don't accept bitcoin but even can hate it, me, for sure, will buy in that store that thing that satisfy my wife. Bitcoin cannot be and cannot be treated like a dictator. Such conception is extremely wrong and make only damage to it. It can and must be accepted only with the free will of everyone who want to use it. Otherwise no one will accept and use it for a long time (even from them who are using it already).

These behaviors are extremely dangerous for the bitcoin and never must be used or accepted from everyone who want that bitcoin have a brilliant future.

stoat

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So what you are saying is that these stores do not care about BTC they just want fiat. So why do they bother accepting bitcoin in the first place if not just to increase their market share and hype at the expense of the bitcoin Community.

In the example you gave, you assume the company only sells things for btc. But most real companies do 99% of their commerce in fiat. Do you think that the share of their takings in btc is so significant that they have to liquidate completely to stay in business. This is not a realistic way of looking at things.

1Referee

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Quote from: stoat on December 13, 2015, 07:54:13 AM

There needs to be more encouragement for shops to keep bitcoin. There are a few businesses that keep their BTC as BTC and we should be encouraging that. Not using companies that are just using the bitcoin for buzz and cashing in on all of us bitcoin consumers.

There should be a list online of all the businesses that dont convert their bitcoins into fiat. Then we could as consumers make that choice.

Do you seriously expect regular merchants to hold a currency that is so volatile as Bitcoin? Think again, the answer is no.

What will you do as store when you sell for example a tv for $800 in Bitcoin and hold the coins, and a day later the coins are worth $750 and another day later the value dropped to $700??? You can say, let them just hold the coins and wait till the value has recovered. But it doesn't work like that.

In their system it says a tv has been sold for $800, but the real value of that transaction is now only $700. It means a direct loss of $100 for them. Don't forget that they also have to pay tax over the $800 sale, while their coins are only worth $700 Wink

DimensionZ

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Shit, did I leave the stove on?

Maybe some of the smaller vendors keep a small of portion of the btc profits in btc and don't convert all to fiat.

Amph

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Quote from: helloeverybody on December 13, 2015, 03:20:50 PM

Does anyone have a list of companys that accept btc and dont convert to flat? This would be useful to the community as a whole.

none, at best you can find some of them holding a portion, because they believe in a increase in value for the future, which is what the majority of us are doing

stoat

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Quote from: helloeverybody on December 13, 2015, 03:20:50 PM

Does anyone have a list of companys that accept btc and dont convert to flat? This would be useful to the community as a whole.

I do not believe that such a list exists. It would be advantageous to the community to have such a list.

helloeverybody

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Does anyone have a list of companys that accept btc and dont convert to flat? This would be useful to the community as a whole.

btckold24

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yeah like some have posted they need to use the money they bring in so they can stay in
business. They have no choice to convert. Unless more vendors start taking bitcoin then
they can simply restock using bitcoin instead of fiat.

stoat

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Quote from: medUSA on December 13, 2015, 02:03:49 PM

I think it's a step forward for merchants to accept bitcoin. Pressuring them not to convert back to fiat is not that reasonable. They have to convert at least part of the bitcoin to cover costs. If you want to offset the effect, buy back the same amount you spent from the exchange.

Its not pressuring. Its encouraging.

Im not suggesting we campaign against merchants converting to fiat (after all its a free market and bitcoin will stand or fall on its own merits) but as bitcoin consumers we can support businesses that support our ideological goals.

medUSA

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I think it's a step forward for merchants to accept bitcoin. Pressuring them not to convert back to fiat is not that reasonable. They have to convert at least part of the bitcoin to cover costs. If you want to offset the effect, buy back the same amount you spent from the exchange.

stoat

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It is possible especially in a service industry to have no need to immediately spend takings.

And im not saying the business has to hoard the coins. They a free to spend them on various business expenses. You can use btc to pay for advertising very easily, server hosting etc.

Im sure most businesses can find a cost that they could switch to a provider that accepts bitcoins.

One day when even our primary producers are accepting bitcoin, a distributed network of smallholders will overtake your monsantos of the world

parmatiya

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For the time being, most bitcoin accepting retailers will have to convert most of their bitcoin. I am not against that. If they can hold some to pay their employees, that is already very good.

OROBTC

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Quote from: stoat on December 13, 2015, 12:42:25 PM

Quote from: OROBTC on December 13, 2015, 12:27:51 PM

Quote from: stoat on December 13, 2015, 07:54:13 AM

There needs to be more encouragement for shops to keep bitcoin. There are a few businesses that keep their BTC as BTC and we should be encouraging that. Not using companies that are just using the bitcoin for buzz and cashing in on all of us bitcoin consumers.

There should be a list online of all the businesses that dont convert their bitcoins into fiat. Then we could as consumers make that choice.

My best guess is that just using BTC as often as possible is good enough, and that the universe of companies NOT changing them into FIAT$ is probably pretty small.

I have only bought (consistently) from providentmetals.com, who offer gold for BTC, but they change it to FIAT$ right away.

I agree with above comments that (especially small) businesses have expenses to deal with, and so often need almost every single dollar just to keep rolling.

I don't really care if a business converts to FIAT$ or not. If they take Bitcoin, that is good enough for me.

This is the wrong attitude to have. If everyone gave their btc to business which promise not to convert to fiat, its those business owners who will then seek out a supplier which takes BTC and promises not to convert to fiat and the cycle continues and you develop a parallel economy without the need to ever convert to fiat.

If we want to develop this btc economy the way we want it we have to be scrupulous as consumers.

With respect and courtesy, I disagree.

For many businesses it is HARD to segregate any capital into something other than currency. Our business (import of auto parts into Peru), we almost always need every dollar that comes in. If someone else's business is strong enough to put some FIAT$ aside for HODLing BTC, well more power to them.

Myself, well..., I keep my own "stack" of BTC. Not converted. Not until BTC is into at least the high four figures...

stoat

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Quote from: OROBTC on December 13, 2015, 12:27:51 PM

Quote from: stoat on December 13, 2015, 07:54:13 AM

There needs to be more encouragement for shops to keep bitcoin. There are a few businesses that keep their BTC as BTC and we should be encouraging that. Not using companies that are just using the bitcoin for buzz and cashing in on all of us bitcoin consumers.

There should be a list online of all the businesses that dont convert their bitcoins into fiat. Then we could as consumers make that choice.

My best guess is that just using BTC as often as possible is good enough, and that the universe of companies NOT changing them into FIAT$ is probably pretty small.

I have only bought (consistently) from providentmetals.com, who offer gold for BTC, but they change it to FIAT$ right away.

I agree with above comments that (especially small) businesses have expenses to deal with, and so often need almost every single dollar just to keep rolling.

I don't really care if a business converts to FIAT$ or not. If they take Bitcoin, that is good enough for me.

This is the wrong attitude to have. If everyone gave their btc to business which promise not to convert to fiat, its those business owners who will then seek out a supplier which takes BTC and promises not to convert to fiat and the cycle continues and you develop a parallel economy without the need to ever convert to fiat.

If we want to develop this btc economy the way we want it we have to be scrupulous as consumers.

Also currently, people are more reluctant to spend their btc, one of the reasons is, that they think if they spend btc they are reducing the value of their own money because the merchant will convert to fiat. If i was a business i would not convert any btc to fiat. It doesnt mean I have to ONLY accept btc but that portion of my turnover that is in btc i would endeavor to keep as btc

gentlemand

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If I was a craft business making my own stuff then I'd go all BTC. As long as there's a supply chain then that dirty fiat will always be a factor. Bitpay did say quite a few of their customers retain large proportions of bitcoin so it's not as cut and dried as it first appears.

OROBTC

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Quote from: stoat on December 13, 2015, 07:54:13 AM

There needs to be more encouragement for shops to keep bitcoin. There are a few businesses that keep their BTC as BTC and we should be encouraging that. Not using companies that are just using the bitcoin for buzz and cashing in on all of us bitcoin consumers.

There should be a list online of all the businesses that dont convert their bitcoins into fiat. Then we could as consumers make that choice.

My best guess is that just using BTC as often as possible is good enough, and that the universe of companies NOT changing them into FIAT$ is probably pretty small.

I have only bought (consistently) from providentmetals.com, who offer gold for BTC, but they change it to FIAT$ right away.

I agree with above comments that (especially small) businesses have expenses to deal with, and so often need almost every single dollar just to keep rolling.

I don't really care if a business converts to FIAT$ or not. If they take Bitcoin, that is good enough for me.

maku

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It is hard to expect that retailers or merchants which operated mainly in FIAT would want to keep bitcoin. In our current economic system, where bitcoin is extreme volatile.
I am afraid that there is no list of merchants or services which keep bitcoin directly but you can assume they are bitcoin related companies rather than sellers.

Moneyburner

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It's just not feasible at this point for a company to do that... There are too many costs that are tied to fiat money. That list would be too small

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