Does anyone think the price is unsustainable? Only bears please and seriousness.

CoinCube

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Quote from: BitcoinTraderFX on November 28, 2013, 01:12:13 AM

So with heavy money flow in, and still low spending of bitcoin, it has to go up.

: )

cj

I agree we are just starting to hit the public mania phase of bitcoin.
Probably a little over half way down the pyramid right now.
There will be plenty of "strong hands" to sell to at the bottom.

BitcoinTraderFX

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

I think a lot of us are spoiled, in the sense that we live in a country where we can reasonably trust our own currency. Note that I said reasonably ; )

There are a lot of countries where their wealth is trapped by their fiat currency. So for them, they don't really care how much bitcoin costs, or what it's worth, it's a means of bypassing their countries barriers to move money.

Now -- that's a lot of money to flow into bitcoin. That alone will sustain bitcoin's rise.

The only thing that can be a problem is if people lose confidence in bitcoin, and triggers a "run on the bank", or "I need to get out." other than simple profit taking (and basic profit taking is really all I see on the charts at this point).

So with heavy money flow in, and still low spending of bitcoin, it has to go up.

: )

cj

BitThink

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Activity: 882

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Quote from: Bitsurprise on November 27, 2013, 11:19:30 PM

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:26:22 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 07:10:55 PM

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:03:18 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

pyramid scheme

We have been over this. No. It does not fit the definition.

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme.

Sounds like bitcoin to me. But opinions may differ the link in my post above goes to the huge argument about about bitcoin being a pyramid or not. Not interested in arguing the point.

Still no. You are wrong. Bitcoin is a limited resource, which is what drives the price up. It's not a matter of opinion. It's exactly as much a pyramid scheme as gold. Which is to say, you are wrong.

BTC is not a scam in itself but it is definitely used as a pyramid scheme , limited number of coins means nothing , i can make a coin now with just 1000 coins does that mean i will sell each after few years of marketing for millions ? no , there are maybe 0.5 million LLLL.com domains and most of them sells for low $xx to low $xxx , some goes for much more yes but most can be bought cheap .

You answered your own question. The value of BTC relies more on how well people accept it. So in the beginning it worths only $0.001, and it worths much more when more and more people accept it now. The value of BTC now lies on all the miners, investors, traders, exchanges, public exposures, .... You can of course clone a coin easily, and many others have done it and are still doing it. However, without enough innovations, do you think your coin will receive the similar amount of supports from the community?

Bitsurprise

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Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:26:22 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 07:10:55 PM

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:03:18 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

pyramid scheme

We have been over this. No. It does not fit the definition.

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme.

Sounds like bitcoin to me. But opinions may differ the link in my post above goes to the huge argument about about bitcoin being a pyramid or not. Not interested in arguing the point.

Still no. You are wrong. Bitcoin is a limited resource, which is what drives the price up. It's not a matter of opinion. It's exactly as much a pyramid scheme as gold. Which is to say, you are wrong.

BTC is not a scam in itself but it is definitely used as a pyramid scheme , limited number of coins means nothing , i can make a coin now with just 1000 coins does that mean i will sell each after few years of marketing for millions ? no , there are maybe 0.5 million LLLL.com domains and most of them sells for low $xx to low $xxx , some goes for much more yes but most can be bought cheap .

CMMPro

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Now I know why your 'ignore' button is so yellow...you seem to be a little manic.

You aren't even close to addressing what I was talking about....you seem to have neither a grasp of how the bitcoin protocol development functions, nor a good grasp on reality.

And now I will add a bit more yellow to that ignore button.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: CMMPro on November 27, 2013, 06:52:48 PM

You realize how difficult it would be to be a "bitcoin killer"...I'm guessing not.
Any beneficial characteristic that an alt coin has can be added to bitcoin easily.

Incorrect.

CoinCube

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1055

I have got to go get ready for turkey day folks so will sign off.

OP asked for bears to post their opinion on bitcoin. Not many true bitcoin bears on a bitcoin forum so I wanted to post my thoughts.

Good luck to you all with your investment. I will not be joining you.
Happy Thanksgiving

CoinCube

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1055

Quote from: pera on November 27, 2013, 07:24:10 PM

The only problem with all your arguments is that Bitcoin is just a protocol/specification for a crypto-currency. Bitcoin don't make any promise; actually Satoshi only wrote a paper and programmed the first implementation. Everything else is online communities: this forum, reddit, github, freenode and the trollbox. You can see a lot of people there saying any kind of bullshit, but they are not Bitcoin.
Also, even the exchanges warns you about how risky is buying btcs...

I agree with your statements of fact which are all true. But those facts are largely irrelevant.
The OP asked if bitcoin was sustainable. I argued that it is not. What Satishi promised is not relevant.

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:26:22 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 07:10:55 PM

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:03:18 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

pyramid scheme

We have been over this. No. It does not fit the definition.

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme.

Sounds like bitcoin to me. But opinions may differ the link in my post above goes to the huge argument about about bitcoin being a pyramid or not. Not interested in arguing the point.

Still no. You are wrong. Bitcoin is a limited resource, which is what drives the price up. It's not a matter of opinion. It's exactly as much a pyramid scheme as gold. Which is to say, you are wrong.

Not even the Tulip mania was a a pyramid scheme. Just a retarded investment.

Ibian

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1278

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 07:10:55 PM

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:03:18 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

pyramid scheme

We have been over this. No. It does not fit the definition.

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme.

Sounds like bitcoin to me. But opinions may differ the link in my post above goes to the huge argument about about bitcoin being a pyramid or not. Not interested in arguing the point.

Still no. You are wrong. Bitcoin is a limited resource, which is what drives the price up. It's not a matter of opinion. It's exactly as much a pyramid scheme as gold. Which is to say, you are wrong.

pera

sr. member

Activity: 532

Merit: 261

バカ

The only problem with all your arguments is that Bitcoin is just a protocol/specification for a crypto-currency. Bitcoin don't make any promise; actually Satoshi only wrote a paper and programmed the first implementation. Everything else is online communities: this forum, reddit, github, freenode and the trollbox. You can see a lot of people there saying any kind of bullshit, but they are not Bitcoin.
Also, even the exchanges warns you about how risky is buying btcs...

CoinCube

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1055

Quote from: CMMPro on November 27, 2013, 06:52:48 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

I honestly don't know. I am a bitcoin bear I own 0 coins.
The only reason I am in this forum is because I don't want to
miss it when someone smarter then me invents it.

I advise keeping a very close eye on every altcoin that comes out. One of them is likely to be at bitcoin killer. Until such a coin is released bitcoin will probably keep trending up because the narrative is so compelling it disguises the fact that it is in essence a giant pyramid scheme.

You realize how difficult it would be to be a "bitcoin killer"...I'm guessing not.
Any beneficial characteristic that an alt coin has can be added to bitcoin easily.

If it is so "revolutionary and/or beneficial' adding it to the protocol and getting the miners to adopt it would be a piece of cake.

The bitcoin protocol is not written in stone and can be changed by the dev's as fast as they can code...getting the acceptance of that fork is only as easy as everyone understanding why the change is important or beneficial.

It is a "living" protocol and can evolve instead of being obsoleted....it also has the advantage of being the first and the one with the largest global support network.

I believe bitcoin is flawed enough and the changes required significant enough that bitcoin will not adapt (due to inertia and vested interests) and this will die. If bitcoin radically evolves into a model that I think is sustainable I may change my mind but I think the odds are against it.

CoinCube

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1055

Quote from: Ibian on November 27, 2013, 07:03:18 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

pyramid scheme

We have been over this. No. It does not fit the definition.

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme.

Sounds like bitcoin to me. But opinions may differ the link in my post above goes to the huge argument about about bitcoin being a pyramid or not. Not interested in arguing the point.

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 07:03:43 PM

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 27, 2013, 06:42:42 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:30:31 PM

Quote from: Xenoph0bia on November 27, 2013, 06:26:09 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:05:33 PM

4) Threaten people that all their cash will be worthless in the future ie they will lose most of their wealth if they don't invest.

This is true, if you hold more cash than you need, this cash simply loose value over time.
Buy gold or land instead if you dont believe in Bitcoin Wink

Yes but bitcoin threatens much more then just cash. The Bull argument is that bitcoin is going to be the world currency essentially transferring all the worlds wealth to a few early bitcoin investors.

To someone (even someone with hard assets like gold) this is a threat. Invest in bitcoin or be much poorer in the future.

People who think that are delusional and in most cases, only speak such ridiculous statements to drive people to buy. There will always be several world currencies, even if they all became crypto-currencies (doubtful in our lifetime) there still would be hundreds of different currencies to service an ever growing world population.

Is the price sustainable? Sure it is. $1000 is actually low for what Bitcoin really can be worth. I'd expect to see many corrections and even crashes along the way but Bitcoin has proven very resilient and as long as there is no "super flaw" in the code or something found (not a tech guy) Bitcoin will be at least one of many major players in the future.

I agree that those people are delusional but that delusion is what is driving
the current price. Is there underlying real value sure mainly due to the ASIC miners which secure
transmissions. How much is that worth? Maybe a lot maybe nothing at all if something better comes along.

I bet on Bitcoin to make money. When I think of the future of our global monetary system, I think Ripple. IMO, it is superior to Bitcoin (or any blockchain currency) in every way but that's me. Time will tell...the good new is, we are witnessing first hand, the change of global currency. That in and of itself is worth the price of admission.

CoinCube

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1055

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 27, 2013, 06:42:42 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:30:31 PM

Quote from: Xenoph0bia on November 27, 2013, 06:26:09 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:05:33 PM

4) Threaten people that all their cash will be worthless in the future ie they will lose most of their wealth if they don't invest.

This is true, if you hold more cash than you need, this cash simply loose value over time.
Buy gold or land instead if you dont believe in Bitcoin Wink

Yes but bitcoin threatens much more then just cash. The Bull argument is that bitcoin is going to be the world currency essentially transferring all the worlds wealth to a few early bitcoin investors.

To someone (even someone with hard assets like gold) this is a threat. Invest in bitcoin or be much poorer in the future.

People who think that are delusional and in most cases, only speak such ridiculous statements to drive people to buy. There will always be several world currencies, even if they all became crypto-currencies (doubtful in our lifetime) there still would be hundreds of different currencies to service an ever growing world population.

Is the price sustainable? Sure it is. $1000 is actually low for what Bitcoin really can be worth. I'd expect to see many corrections and even crashes along the way but Bitcoin has proven very resilient and as long as there is no "super flaw" in the code or something found (not a tech guy) Bitcoin will be at least one of many major players in the future.

I agree that those people are delusional but that delusion is what is driving
the current price. Is there underlying real value sure mainly due to the ASIC miners which secure
transmissions. How much is that worth? Maybe a lot maybe nothing at all if something better comes along.

Ibian

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1278

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

pyramid scheme

We have been over this. No. It does not fit the definition.

CMMPro

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:25:11 PM

I honestly don't know. I am a bitcoin bear I own 0 coins.
The only reason I am in this forum is because I don't want to
miss it when someone smarter then me invents it.

I advise keeping a very close eye on every altcoin that comes out. One of them is likely to be at bitcoin killer. Until such a coin is released bitcoin will probably keep trending up because the narrative is so compelling it disguises the fact that it is in essence a giant pyramid scheme.

You realize how difficult it would be to be a "bitcoin killer"...I'm guessing not.
Any beneficial characteristic that an alt coin has can be added to bitcoin easily.

If it is so "revolutionary and/or beneficial' adding it to the protocol and getting the miners to adopt it would be a piece of cake.

The bitcoin protocol is not written in stone and can be changed by the dev's as fast as they can code...getting the acceptance of that fork is only as easy as everyone understanding why the change is important or beneficial.

It is a "living" protocol and can evolve instead of being obsoleted....it also has the advantage of being the first and the one with the largest global support network.

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:30:31 PM

Quote from: Xenoph0bia on November 27, 2013, 06:26:09 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:05:33 PM

4) Threaten people that all their cash will be worthless in the future ie they will lose most of their wealth if they don't invest.

This is true, if you hold more cash than you need, this cash simply loose value over time.
Buy gold or land instead if you dont believe in Bitcoin Wink

Yes but bitcoin threatens much more then just cash. The Bull argument is that bitcoin is going to be the world currency essentially transferring all the worlds wealth to a few early bitcoin investors.

To someone (even someone with hard assets like gold) this is a threat. Invest in bitcoin or be much poorer in the future.

People who think that are delusional and in most cases, only speak such ridiculous statements to drive people to buy. There will always be several world currencies, even if they all became crypto-currencies (doubtful in our lifetime) there still would be hundreds of different currencies to service an ever growing world population.

Is the price sustainable? Sure it is. $1000 is actually low for what Bitcoin really can be worth. I'd expect to see many corrections and even crashes along the way but Bitcoin has proven very resilient and as long as there is no "super flaw" in the code or something found (not a tech guy) Bitcoin will be at least one of many major currencies players in the future and could possibly reach $1m or more.

CoinCube

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1055

Quote from: Xenoph0bia on November 27, 2013, 06:26:09 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:05:33 PM

4) Threaten people that all their cash will be worthless in the future ie they will lose most of their wealth if they don't invest.

This is true, if you hold more cash than you need, this cash simply loose value over time.
Buy gold or land instead if you dont believe in Bitcoin Wink

Yes but bitcoin threatens much more then just cash. The Bull argument is that bitcoin is going to be the world currency essentially transferring all the worlds wealth to a few early bitcoin investors.

To someone (even someone with hard assets like gold) this is a threat. Invest in bitcoin or be much poorer in the future.

Xenoph0bia

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 501

Quote from: CoinCube on November 27, 2013, 06:05:33 PM

4) Threaten people that all their cash will be worthless in the future ie they will lose most of their wealth if they don't invest.

This is true, if you hold more cash than you need, this cash simply loose value over time.
Buy gold or land instead if you dont believe in Bitcoin Wink

Topic: Does anyone think the price is unsustainable? Only bears please and seriousness. (Read 6940 times)