Thanks for your comments. But I see that you (and I included) are considering Bitcoin not as a medium of exchange, but as the goal itself. "If people need Bitcoin", "Merchants will starting accepting Bitcoin", etc. But the question is:
What are the advantages of Bitcoin compared to traditional banking?
One of the first results of googling "Bitcoin advantages" is this list, from http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu, and my comment in parenthesis.
1) No Third-Party Seizure (How many times in average Joe's life has his money been seized?)
2) No Taxes (that's not a feature, hidden cash can do it. Besides, that's not legal and definitely not desirable to be related to Bitcoin)
3) No Tracking (again, why would average Joe want his money not to be tracked in case of investigation? Of course if he's not out of the law)
4) No Transaction Costs (most consumers would consider a 3% fee is not too much, specially if they have advantages as chragebacks). And if escrow services are used with with Bitcoin, then there would be transaction costs.
5) No Risk of “Charge-backs” (what's the advantage for a consumer? That's only useful for some specific merchants... and scammers).
6) Bitcoins Cannot be Stolen (yes the can! if your keys are stolen. In addition, they are not recoverable, unlike traditional banking).
Topic: Does Bitcoin really need an ATM? - page 9. (Read 6255 times)
I think the real ATM Bitcoin needs is the one every user already has, made by Hewlett-Packard / Epson / Canon / Brother / Lexmark / etc... the one where the user can Be Their Own Bank and print their own money. I would sort of agree, an ATM as we know it is pointless.
USE CASES: If a user has X and needs Y, then he should Z
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS (e.g. on a smartphone) and he needs PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins, and he is not somewhere where he can print some himself, he can get by with an app that shows a QR code on the screen.
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS and he needs FIAT CASH, he can get by with a regular banking ATM card funded by Bitcoins.
If a user has PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins and he needs DIGITAL BITCOINS, he can scan or hand-type the private key somewhere.
If a user has FIAT CASH and needs to buy BITCOINS, what he needs is a vending machine.
I need to buy one of these and relabel it Casascius Coins.
USE CASES: If a user has X and needs Y, then he should Z
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS (e.g. on a smartphone) and he needs PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins, and he is not somewhere where he can print some himself, he can get by with an app that shows a QR code on the screen.
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS and he needs FIAT CASH, he can get by with a regular banking ATM card funded by Bitcoins.
If a user has PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins and he needs DIGITAL BITCOINS, he can scan or hand-type the private key somewhere.
If a user has FIAT CASH and needs to buy BITCOINS, what he needs is a vending machine.
I need to buy one of these and relabel it Casascius Coins.
That would be so cool!
You would need to connect it to MtGox to determine the value.
The only issue i see with this is how do you deal with the flux?
I think the real ATM Bitcoin needs is the one every user already has, made by Hewlett-Packard / Epson / Canon / Brother / Lexmark / etc... the one where the user can Be Their Own Bank and print their own money. I would sort of agree, an ATM as we know it is pointless.
USE CASES: If a user has X and needs Y, then he should Z
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS (e.g. on a smartphone) and he needs PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins, and he is not somewhere where he can print some himself, he can get by with an app that shows a QR code on the screen.
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS and he needs FIAT CASH, he can get by with a regular banking ATM card funded by Bitcoins.
If a user has PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins and he needs DIGITAL BITCOINS, he can scan or hand-type the private key somewhere.
If a user has FIAT CASH and needs to buy BITCOINS, what he needs is a vending machine.
I need to buy one of these and relabel it Casascius Coins.
USE CASES: If a user has X and needs Y, then he should Z
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS (e.g. on a smartphone) and he needs PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins, and he is not somewhere where he can print some himself, he can get by with an app that shows a QR code on the screen.
If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS and he needs FIAT CASH, he can get by with a regular banking ATM card funded by Bitcoins.
If a user has PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins and he needs DIGITAL BITCOINS, he can scan or hand-type the private key somewhere.
If a user has FIAT CASH and needs to buy BITCOINS, what he needs is a vending machine.
I need to buy one of these and relabel it Casascius Coins.
A lot of people need cash for various reasons. If they can get cash for bitcoin easily they'll hold more coin and be more likely to be willing to work or sell for it.
I think vending machine supplied bitcoins could be a great "entry point" to people, just to get some bitcoins and play with them, try out how they work etc. There already was this some days ago:
http://blog.maschinenraum.tk/2012/07/15/bitcoin-vending-machine-exchange-euro-coins-for-bitcoin-wallets/
After this I realized that you can actually use any kind of vending machine as a bitcoin machine, with a little tuning. Maybe condom vending machines are the most easy. They are also very cheap, you can get used ones from ebay.
Inspired by these, I developed a new feature to easywallet.org - coupons. These can be nominated in fiat currency, and they are converted to bitcoins at the time of redeem. This removes exchange rate risk from such machines.
https://easywallet.org/coupons
This means, that an user with iPhone or android phone can buy the bitcoins from the machine, redeem the coupon using QR code, and start sending/using the bitcoins within minutes from his/her phone.
Currently only the basic functionality is there (you have to print the coupons yourself if you want to use them). Our designer is working for coupon desing.
this is very great stuff! congrat!http://blog.maschinenraum.tk/2012/07/15/bitcoin-vending-machine-exchange-euro-coins-for-bitcoin-wallets/
After this I realized that you can actually use any kind of vending machine as a bitcoin machine, with a little tuning. Maybe condom vending machines are the most easy. They are also very cheap, you can get used ones from ebay.
Inspired by these, I developed a new feature to easywallet.org - coupons. These can be nominated in fiat currency, and they are converted to bitcoins at the time of redeem. This removes exchange rate risk from such machines.
https://easywallet.org/coupons
This means, that an user with iPhone or android phone can buy the bitcoins from the machine, redeem the coupon using QR code, and start sending/using the bitcoins within minutes from his/her phone.
Currently only the basic functionality is there (you have to print the coupons yourself if you want to use them). Our designer is working for coupon desing.
I think vending machine supplied bitcoins could be a great "entry point" to people, just to get some bitcoins and play with them, try out how they work etc. There already was this some days ago:
http://blog.maschinenraum.tk/2012/07/15/bitcoin-vending-machine-exchange-euro-coins-for-bitcoin-wallets/
After this I realized that you can actually use any kind of vending machine as a bitcoin machine, with a little tuning. Maybe condom vending machines are the most easy. They are also very cheap, you can get used ones from ebay.
Inspired by these, I developed a new feature to easywallet.org - coupons. These can be nominated in fiat currency, and they are converted to bitcoins at the time of redeem. This removes exchange rate risk from such machines.
https://easywallet.org/coupons
This means, that an user with iPhone or android phone can buy the bitcoins from the machine, redeem the coupon using QR code, and start sending/using the bitcoins within minutes from his/her phone.
Currently only the basic functionality is there (you have to print the coupons yourself if you want to use them). Our designer is working for coupon desing.
http://blog.maschinenraum.tk/2012/07/15/bitcoin-vending-machine-exchange-euro-coins-for-bitcoin-wallets/
After this I realized that you can actually use any kind of vending machine as a bitcoin machine, with a little tuning. Maybe condom vending machines are the most easy. They are also very cheap, you can get used ones from ebay.
Inspired by these, I developed a new feature to easywallet.org - coupons. These can be nominated in fiat currency, and they are converted to bitcoins at the time of redeem. This removes exchange rate risk from such machines.
https://easywallet.org/coupons
This means, that an user with iPhone or android phone can buy the bitcoins from the machine, redeem the coupon using QR code, and start sending/using the bitcoins within minutes from his/her phone.
Currently only the basic functionality is there (you have to print the coupons yourself if you want to use them). Our designer is working for coupon desing.
Does email need paper?
Yes.Bitcoin is less reliant on ATMs than classic money, but like email and paper, there are many people who need it. If there is a market, it will be done.
So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.
For now on, of course merchants are not very willing to accept bitcoin. Actually Bitcoin needs people that know its potential and will invest by buying some. When enough people will have invested in bitcoin, the price will rise enough to give bitcoin a good purchasing power that will encourage merchant to accept it. Meanwhile, it's a good thing that some people are working on a bitcoin ATM because when the purchasing power will rise at that point, bitcoin will be ready to spread and be use by merchant.
Does email need paper?
I've seen in many posts that you are interested in something like a Bitcoin ATM, and there has even been someone who has built a Bitcoin ATM somewhere in the USA.
I believe that reprogramming an existing vending machine (specially condoms or parking meters for their size), or even taking an old motherboard or android phone, and attach a coin acceptor and a thermal printer is not exactly something revolutionary (technically speaking). But it hasn't been done yet (well, it has, but a big and mostly proof-of-concept project, diametrically different from the low cost, widely deployed EUR/USD/GBP2BTC machine everyone want).
So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.
Another reason I think that people will not rush into the ATM to buy BTC is the responsibility. Who would want to be considered the only responsible of protecting its own wealth? If you are stolen/threatened/forgetful that's it, game over. With a bank, despite all the inconveniences, hidden fees etc, if your credit card is stolen, you can chargeback. And the Bitcoin community does not support the idea of trusting a Bitcoin bank (which, given the past experience, I understand).
So, when I enthusiastically tell my friends about the wonders about Bitcoin, they ask me, skeptically, "how can I use them?" And in the answer I realize that they don't really need them, as well as they don't need gold coins.
People don't mind paying 2 euros more in an item of 60 euros because of the fees of Paypal, if they know that they can recover their money if something goes bad. Bitcoin has primitive escrow services, but are they below the Paypal fees? If yes, for how long, when the Bitcoin economy expands?
In conclusion, when I was looking for a catch phrase to write in the ATM describing why everybody needs Bitcoin, I realized that Bitcoins are useful for wealthy individuals and from a macroeconomic point of view, but not for the people that would casually buy them in an ATM.
I hope with this post to get contrary opinions about this fact, since I want to be convinced that a Bitcoin ATM would be useful, since I find the project of building one really, really cool :-)
I believe that reprogramming an existing vending machine (specially condoms or parking meters for their size), or even taking an old motherboard or android phone, and attach a coin acceptor and a thermal printer is not exactly something revolutionary (technically speaking). But it hasn't been done yet (well, it has, but a big and mostly proof-of-concept project, diametrically different from the low cost, widely deployed EUR/USD/GBP2BTC machine everyone want).
So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.
Another reason I think that people will not rush into the ATM to buy BTC is the responsibility. Who would want to be considered the only responsible of protecting its own wealth? If you are stolen/threatened/forgetful that's it, game over. With a bank, despite all the inconveniences, hidden fees etc, if your credit card is stolen, you can chargeback. And the Bitcoin community does not support the idea of trusting a Bitcoin bank (which, given the past experience, I understand).
So, when I enthusiastically tell my friends about the wonders about Bitcoin, they ask me, skeptically, "how can I use them?" And in the answer I realize that they don't really need them, as well as they don't need gold coins.
People don't mind paying 2 euros more in an item of 60 euros because of the fees of Paypal, if they know that they can recover their money if something goes bad. Bitcoin has primitive escrow services, but are they below the Paypal fees? If yes, for how long, when the Bitcoin economy expands?
In conclusion, when I was looking for a catch phrase to write in the ATM describing why everybody needs Bitcoin, I realized that Bitcoins are useful for wealthy individuals and from a macroeconomic point of view, but not for the people that would casually buy them in an ATM.
I hope with this post to get contrary opinions about this fact, since I want to be convinced that a Bitcoin ATM would be useful, since I find the project of building one really, really cool :-)
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