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Topic: Does it make sense to have mobile wallet + desktop wallet from same brand? (Read 619 times)

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I was having the impression that when the OS starts up, there has to be temporary storage for activities like writing logs, caching data, creating temporary files etc.
It sounds like you haven't tried it yet. I can only recommend doing so.
Most (if not all) Linux distributions boot into a working GUI straight from the installation DVD. Some offer the kernel option "toram" so you can remove the DVD (and run much faster), but that's optional. All of them create a virtual file system in RAM, where you can save files normally and even install packages (although this is quite limited when running Live Linux). The only difference is that's it all gone the moment you turn off your computer.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
[...]
I was having the impression that when the OS starts up, there has to be temporary storage for activities like writing logs, caching data, creating temporary files etc. And that when the computer shuts down, in the case of Tails, it erases what it wrote. But, apparently, unless you want a persistent storage, writing isn't necessary at all. It runs fully on memory.
On the contrary, Tails never writes anything to the hard disk and only runs from the memory of the computer. The memory is entirely deleted when you shutdown Tails, erasing all possible traces.

And it makes sense. If erasing files was to be processed when the computer shut down, it wouldn't work with power outages or force shutdowns.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18509
Okay. So, you'll need another storage device which will be used as encrypted partition, otherwise the OS cannot operate.
The OS will operate just fine, you just won't be able to save any data between sessions. Every time you boot from your DVD, it will be like a completely fresh install. But this is exactly how Tails is intended to be used. The "A" in Tails stands for amnesic - if you don't set up an encrypted persistent storage, then every time you boot Tails you'll be in a completely clean sessions with no memory of any previous sessions.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
Using a (read only) DVD instead of USB means your OS can't be tampered with for sure. The moment you reboot, it's fresh again.
Your data can still be stored on any other encrypted partition.
Okay. So, you'll need another storage device which will be used as encrypted partition, otherwise the OS cannot operate.
hero member
Activity: 1643
Merit: 683
LoyceV on the road. Or couch.
A simpler way to avoid tampering with your OS is burning a DVD-R, then write on it so you know it wasn't switched out.
How's DVD-R safer? I don't understand. If the DVD is one-time burned, then you probably can't run any OS on it. If it isn't one-time, then it works similarly to a USB? Curious, actually, I may be wrong. I haven't ever used DVD for anything beyond burning videos.
Using a (read only) DVD instead of USB means your OS can't be tampered with for sure. The moment you reboot, it's fresh again.
Your data can still be stored on any other encrypted partition.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
I don't think that's over cautious at all. It is simply good sense not to have all your coins in a single wallet, regardless of how secure you think that wallet is.
To me, the ideal wallet setup is this:

  • Cold storage wallet, used very rarely (mainly to send coins to it). It works as savings for the long term.
  • Cold storage wallet, used as frequently as you're making on-chain transactions.
  • Hot storage wallet, used for micro-payments, or when you're in hurry. (includes lightning)

All of which are viewed by connecting to your own node, via some computer that is dedicated solely for that purpose only.

A simpler way to avoid tampering with your OS is burning a DVD-R, then write on it so you know it wasn't switched out.
How's DVD-R safer? I don't understand. If the DVD is one-time burned, then you probably can't run any OS on it. If it isn't one-time, then it works similarly to a USB? Curious, actually, I may be wrong. I haven't ever used DVD for anything beyond burning videos.
full member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 227
You're asking different things. In the title, you're asking if it's okay to install the same wallet on different devices. I'd say that's fine (as long as the wallet itself can be trusted).

Then, you're asking this:
Now I want to ask whether there are Wallets that are secure, synchable in between the desktop app and mobile app together?
I don't think this exists. The transactions (in a HD wallet) will of course be synced through the blockchain, but the wallet itself (including the address labels) won't get synchronized.

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For example if I am going to set up the wallet on desktop then I will have to enter the Private key there. In similar ways when I will set the wallet on my phone then also I will have to set the private key there.
That will work.

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Is it going to be issue to insert my private keys on two different devices?
Well, "it depends": you asked for "wallets that are secure", but you should also make sure the OS is secure. If you use the same wallet on different devices, you need to make sure they're all secure.
Will there be an issue? Only if your phone gets compromised. Or your desktop. And that's the issue: you don't know that until it's too late, but by doing so, you're doubling the risk. And that's why I wouldn't do it.



I think you need to take a step back: what are you trying to accomplish? If you own a small amount in Bitcoin that you can afford to lose, you can just do what you're suggesting. It will be very convenient and you know (and accept) the risk.
But, and I assume that applies to most people: if you want to get an increasingly larger amount of Bitcoin, it's better to create different wallets for different purposes (and that's what I do). Sometimes I use the same wallet brand, sometimes I use the same seed, sometimes it's watch-only, and some are different wallets. That doesn't mean they're all loaded, but that's not really the point.

And then there's privacy. If you have $5 trillion in your mobile wallet, your local barista may be tempted to hit you on the head. And if you buy a jet, you may not want the seller to know you bought 2 jets from his competitor the other day.
Separate wallets for different purposes are great for privacy!

Jee makes lot of sense now. I think I know what I was going to do and it was entirely wrong concept that I had back of the mind. I think it is best to follow what you said in the summary, have different wallets for different purposes. Since there is no limit on how many addresses I can generate I think it is perfectly fine that I just keep the devices concept away for now. I mean exposing the same private key over and over on different device could bring me in a situation of mumble jumble!

Of course, if I am holding trillions then I am definitely going to keep it low profile about my wallet.  Grin

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I think you need to take a step back:

Yes, I already did after reading few of the replies initially. I am more or less going to trust paper wallet and hardware wallet. I wouldn't mind creating different one's as you mentioned.

Thanks for the heads up and also replying the long answer :-)
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
assuming that what you have is now completely safe ~ is a mistake.
Agreed Smiley A false sense of security can make you sloppy.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18509
I don't think you can encrypt the entire Tails USB stick. You mean it should ask for a password before it boots, right?
Correct.

Although I've not tried this with Tails specifically, there are multiple ways to encrypt an entire OS: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system

You can even hide the encrypted OS inside a VeraCrypt hidden volume, allowing you to unlock a secondary decoy OS if forced to do so: https://veracrypt.eu/en/VeraCrypt%20Hidden%20Operating%20System.html

But my point was really this: Just sticking Tails on a USB drive and assuming that what you have is now completely safe or is comparable to a proper hardware wallet is a mistake. There are a lot more things which need to be considered which are far outside the scope of the average user. If you don't want to use a hardware wallet, then airgapping an old laptop will be the best option, rather than using Tails in this manner on a computer which is not airgapped.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Persistent storage on Tails OS is encrypted by default using LUKS (Linux Unified Key Setup) or Veracrypt.
Yes, but encrypting the persistent storage only is insufficient. The entire drive should be encrypted in a way so that if a malicious third party gains access to it, they can't hide malware on it alongside your installation of Tails
I don't think you can encrypt the entire Tails USB stick. You mean it should ask for a password before it boots, right?

A simpler way to avoid tampering with your OS is burning a DVD-R, then write on it so you know it wasn't switched out. But if you're that worried about targeted physical attacks, encryption alone probably won't protect you.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18509
Tail OS only supports the old version of Electrum 4.0.2 and it needs to be upgraded to the latest version by downloading from the official Electrum website.
It's not that Tails only supports version 4.0.2, but rather that's the version which is part of the Tails bundle. Tails is deliberately designed in such a way that you cannot upgrade individual components. You must download the appimage and run it as a standalone, as I said above.

Persistent storage on Tails OS is encrypted by default using LUKS (Linux Unified Key Setup) or Veracrypt.
Yes, but encrypting the persistent storage only is insufficient. The entire drive should be encrypted in a way so that if a malicious third party gains access to it, they can't hide malware on it alongside your installation of Tails which could alter the entropy your copy of Electrum generates, change addresses you copy and paste, or copy your private keys for transmission at a later time.

I am a bit over cautious, so this strategy works for me...  Wink
I don't think that's over cautious at all. It is simply good sense not to have all your coins in a single wallet, regardless of how secure you think that wallet is.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 1957
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I would personally not do that....

A single hack can basically ruin you, if you have a lot of coins in the "single" wallet. I like to have the majority of my "hoard" in hardware wallets or Paper wallets for long-term storage and then only a small amount of coins on my desktop wallet and my mobile phone.

They cannot take out all my coins in a single hack, because I split the risk into cold storage and then also small amounts on the hot wallets. I am a bit over cautious, so this strategy works for me...  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!
I don't see many benefits in what you are trying to do. It would be good to know how you are storing your most valuable or biggest stash of coins?
Are you only relying on hot wallets (mobile, desktop) or is there a hardware wallet or airgapped device somewhere in the mix?

If you have both an iOS and Android phone with you, I see no point in having the same seed imported on both wallets. 2x the risk.
If you use a desktop + phone combination, then what's your main way of sending and receiving bitcoin? Via your desktop or mobile wallet? And is it really mandatory to replicate the same seed across both devices when you can create different wallets with different seeds on each one?

You said you don't want to use your laptop that often and intent to spend the coins from your phone on the go. Perfect. So create a separate wallet on your phone and just transfer what you need to spend on the go to it.

I feel like you are trying to save on fees by importing your seed across different devices. In my opinion, it's not worth it. One wrong step on either your phone or laptop, and your coins could be gone because they share the same seed. 
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1703
airbet.io
You should realize this is not a hardware wallet, and it's not cold storage either. If you enter your seed phrase on an unknown computer running from your own USB stick, a hardware key logger can still steal it. It's still a hot wallet, and therefore I'd always assume malware can get to it.
It's good to keep this in mind, but it will probably just work without problems.
Yes Sir is acceptable. I originally just wanted to try how to install Elecktrum on a flashdisk and be able to carry it anywhere.
I realize that this is still a hot wallet in USB Flashdisk hardware and security vulnerabilities are also still quite risky, such as malware that will infect from several different device users.

-snip-
Any good Linux distro will work. Bare in mind that the version of Electrum which is prebundled with Tails is quite old - 4.0.2 which was released 3+ years ago. If you want to use the most recent version, you'll need to use the download (and verify) the relevant appimage as described here: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tails.html

And if you are using Tails, remember to set up persistent storage.
Tail OS only supports the old version of Electrum 4.0.2 and it needs to be upgraded to the latest version by downloading from the official Electrum website.
and Persistent storage is one of the features provided by Tail OS to be used as secure storage of user data and personal settings between usage sessions.

Persistent storage on Tails OS is encrypted by default using LUKS (Linux Unified Key Setup) or Veracrypt.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18509
The goal is to make a portable hardware wallet from a USB Flashdisk, with good enough security and of course cheaper.
Yeah, as Loyce says, this is not a hardware wallet. This is a software wallet which may or may not be airgapped depending on how you use it. And if the USB drive isn't fully encrypted, then it's really only secure as storing your seed phrase in plain text electronically, which is not safe at all.

The Linux distro that is suitable for Electrum and has been integrated is Tail OS.
Any good Linux distro will work. Bear in mind that the version of Electrum which is prebundled with Tails is quite old - 4.0.2 which was released 3+ years ago. If you want to use the most recent version, you'll need to use the download (and verify) the relevant appimage as described here: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tails.html

And if you are using Tails, remember to set up persistent storage.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
creating a Bootable Linux OS on a USB Flashdisk with Elecrum Wallet inside.

The goal is to make a portable hardware wallet from a USB Flashdisk, with good enough security and of course cheaper.
~
The Linux distro that is suitable for Electrum and has been integrated is Tail OS.
You should realize this is not a hardware wallet, and it's not cold storage either. If you enter your seed phrase on an unknown computer running from your own USB stick, a hardware key logger can still steal it. It's still a hot wallet, and therefore I'd always assume malware can get to it.
It's good to keep this in mind, but it will probably just work without problems.

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but on the other hand, because TOR uses a lot of unknown server circuits, it will certainly be dangerous if we use the default electrum server.
I don't see how this is relevant. The Tor servers you use aren't related to the Electrum server you use. And Electrum doesn't have "a default server".
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 4158
This is what I plan to try.
creating a Bootable Linux OS on a USB Flashdisk with Elecrum Wallet inside.

The goal is to make a portable hardware wallet from a USB Flashdisk, with good enough security and of course cheaper.
Only used to do a few main transactions and include protection when you want to open the Bootable Flashdisk.

The Linux distro that is suitable for Electrum and has been integrated is Tail OS.
It also uses TOR servers, so using the electrum wallet on Tail OS we get more privacy than others,

but on the other hand, because TOR uses a lot of unknown server circuits, it will certainly be dangerous if we use the default electrum server.
For that, we need to reset the Electrum server in Tail OS.
Electrum connects to multiple nodes to determine the block headers but fetches data from only one server.

MITM is still difficult in this case; connections are secured through SSL with the certificates. This makes MITM difficult unless you're intentionally choosing one that doesn't have SSL.

Routing doesn't impact security, especially so for onion servers.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1024
#SWGT CERTIK Audited
The goal is to make a portable hardware wallet from a USB Flashdisk, with good enough security and of course cheaper.
Only used to do a few main transactions and include protection when you want to open the Bootable Flashdisk.

The Linux distro that is suitable for Electrum and has been integrated is Tail OS.
It also uses TOR servers, so using the electrum wallet on Tail OS we get more privacy than others,

but on the other hand, because TOR uses a lot of unknown server circuits, it will certainly be dangerous if we use the default electrum server.
For that, we need to reset the Electrum server in Tail OS.
True, but because many people do not know how to use a server, they can use it only as a sign.
I used it, and I don't care about that, I use it that way just to protect my private key. To Push and broadcast raw transactions, I used third-party sites which can be found outside, like bestchange, blockcypher, blockchair, and etc.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1703
airbet.io
-snip-
or you can just install the Linux OS on a bootable removable media like a USB disk to have persistence and store the wallet between restarts.
This old topic explains the second type for example: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/diybitcoin-cold-wallet-usb-stick-creation-step-by-step-guide-853288
This is what I plan to try.
creating a Bootable Linux OS on a USB Flashdisk with Elecrum Wallet inside.

The goal is to make a portable hardware wallet from a USB Flashdisk, with good enough security and of course cheaper.
Only used to do a few main transactions and include protection when you want to open the Bootable Flashdisk.

The Linux distro that is suitable for Electrum and has been integrated is Tail OS.
It also uses TOR servers, so using the electrum wallet on Tail OS we get more privacy than others,

but on the other hand, because TOR uses a lot of unknown server circuits, it will certainly be dangerous if we use the default electrum server.
For that, we need to reset the Electrum server in Tail OS.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18509
Well, similarly take out the sim card, turn off wi-fi, turn on airplane mode?
I am of the opinion that modern smartphones can never be reliably airgapped. You are taking a device whose sole purpose is to communicate in as many ways as possible and trying to stop every single one of those processes. A simple software switch - turn off WiFi, turn off Bluetooth, turn off NFC, turn on airplane mode, etc. - will never be as reliable as a proper hardware airgap which you can achieve on a laptop or computer by physically removing the modules in question. And we also know the NSA are still able to track phones with location turned off and airplane mode turned on, so they must still be transmitting some data. Which leads to the point - how do you verify your phone is not still transmitting information? How can the average person verify that the WiFi really is off, that the location data really is off, and so on? You can't.

And that's all without touching on the fact that the physical security of a phone is inferior to the physical security of a proper hardware wallet.

If you want a pocket size airgapped device, then buy an open source airgapped hardware wallet such as a Passport. A phone is a very poor alternative.
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