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Topic: Dollar slowly collapsing - page 2. (Read 5251 times)

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
October 05, 2012, 11:03:18 AM
#30
deflation kills the economy ONLY with debt currencies (which all "mainstream" currencies are) - because you always need more money to pay off the debt, and that has to be "printed" - so the system can ONLY be kept going with a certain rate of inflation

You don't always need more money to pay off the debt, you need to ensure that the currency circulates. The worry is that even a small amount of deflation can lead to a cycle of reduced spending, more deflation, job losses, etc. This isn't magically solved by a non-debt based currency. The debt has very little correlation to the inflation rate. This can be easily seen by historical inflation rates and historical debt rates. Either government raises taxes to spend or government sells securities to spend (debt), either way the government is spending and the effects are similar.

Inflation is caused on purpose by the Fed and what it charges for credit. It does this to avoid deflation, no more, no less. Unfortunately the way it does this is by gifting banks at the theft of the people.

Except savings and CDs have been neutered to the point that they only way for repaid debt to reenter circulation is for it to be lent out again.  Unless something changes, you do need more printing to pay down the total debt.  Banks hold tight to their money these days.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
October 05, 2012, 10:34:37 AM
#29
deflation kills the economy ONLY with debt currencies (which all "mainstream" currencies are) - because you always need more money to pay off the debt, and that has to be "printed" - so the system can ONLY be kept going with a certain rate of inflation

You don't always need more money to pay off the debt, you need to ensure that the currency circulates. The worry is that even a small amount of deflation can lead to a cycle of reduced spending, more deflation, job losses, etc. This isn't magically solved by a non-debt based currency. The debt has very little correlation to the inflation rate. This can be easily seen by historical inflation rates and historical debt rates. Either government raises taxes to spend or government sells securities to spend (debt), either way the government is spending and the effects are similar.

Inflation is caused on purpose by the Fed and what it charges for credit. It does this to avoid deflation, no more, no less. Unfortunately the way it does this is by gifting banks at the theft of the people.

This is a major flaw with fiat currencies.  A different twist can occur with commodity backed currencies as well.  If you don't have a backing for a currency the government or government entities can manipulate the currency for their own aims.  With commodity backing the supply and demand of the commodity can cause issues with the money supply on top of the supply and demand of labor.

I have been advocating a basket of commodities as a backing for currency to try and get the best options.  I don't like the fact a central bank can use its "power to print" to rob laborers of the value of their work.  (Currency is representation of the value of labor over time).  Devaluation of currency via printing is the same as a wage cut and if you have savings it cuts your wages from the PAST!
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
October 05, 2012, 10:21:39 AM
#28
deflation kills the economy ONLY with debt currencies (which all "mainstream" currencies are) - because you always need more money to pay off the debt, and that has to be "printed" - so the system can ONLY be kept going with a certain rate of inflation

You don't always need more money to pay off the debt, you need to ensure that the currency circulates. The worry is that even a small amount of deflation can lead to a cycle of reduced spending, more deflation, job losses, etc. This isn't magically solved by a non-debt based currency. The debt has very little correlation to the inflation rate. This can be easily seen by historical inflation rates and historical debt rates. Either government raises taxes to spend or government sells securities to spend (debt), either way the government is spending and the effects are similar.

Inflation is caused on purpose by the Fed and what it charges for credit. It does this to avoid deflation, no more, no less. Unfortunately the way it does this is by gifting banks at the theft of the people.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
October 05, 2012, 08:47:36 AM
#27
Not sure if any article on The Trumpet is a good place to start a conversation.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Philadelphia_Trumpet
member
Activity: 107
Merit: 10
October 05, 2012, 07:34:26 AM
#26
We can't audit the Fed, so we can't prove they are insolvent.  They can continue to trade as if they are solvent and nobody can prove they don't have the funds to back up their positions.

The FED can never go insolvent because they create the money.


They also have the US military/policing power backing up their position. You can foist any amount of crappy currency or ideas on anyone if you have a big enough army.
Yes.

Why is it when shit hits the fan ppl still race to the dollar? That aint goin to change in our lifetimes.

I see them rather racing into JPY and CHF, currencies which are considered most stable because a) there's a low interest rate since ages, which means they do not have to rely on inflation to keep it going because b) their keepers have acknowledged that there can't be infinite growth


If "economy" is defined as "the ability of banks to extract a percentage of every income stream on the planet via interest payments on revolving credit" then yes, deflation kills the "economy".

deflation kills the economy ONLY with debt currencies (which all "mainstream" currencies are) - because you always need more money to pay off the debt, and that has to be "printed" - so the system can ONLY be kept going with a certain rate of inflation
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 4398
diamond-handed zealot
October 03, 2012, 08:37:10 PM
#25
If "economy" is defined as "the ability of banks to extract a percentage of every income stream on the planet via interest payments on revolving credit" then yes, deflation kills the "economy".

bullseye
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
October 03, 2012, 08:30:10 AM
#24
If "economy" is defined as "the ability of banks to extract a percentage of every income stream on the planet via interest payments on revolving credit" then yes, deflation kills the "economy".
legendary
Activity: 4438
Merit: 3387
October 03, 2012, 03:23:51 AM
#23
Or maybe he's trying to soften the deflation.  Nothing kills a consumerist economy like falling prices.

I think the consumer electronics industry would strongly disagree with this statement. This industry has grown for decades at an incredible rate despite (and, in fact, due to) massive deflation. Nope. No "deflationary spiral" here!
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
The North Remembers
October 02, 2012, 10:35:27 PM
#22
I know. Just trolling I guess.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 4398
diamond-handed zealot
October 02, 2012, 08:45:27 PM
#21

misleading title is misleading

gold is created in stars, the bacteria just precipitates gold out of a gold salt
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
The North Remembers
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
October 02, 2012, 08:11:29 PM
#19
Why is it when shit hits the fan ppl still race to the dollar?
Because the fiscal disasters in other large economies are even worse.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 4398
diamond-handed zealot
October 02, 2012, 08:10:58 PM
#18
Or maybe he's trying to soften the deflation.  Nothing kills a consumerist economy like falling prices.

This is only true for dept based currency, as the dollar and all other fiat currencies.  

This only applies to reality...

Not for gold or bitcoin  Wink

Unfortunately neither gold or bitcoin matter much for the prices consumers in the US see.

speak for yourself
legendary
Activity: 2072
Merit: 1001
October 02, 2012, 07:58:15 PM
#17
Why is it when shit hits the fan ppl still race to the dollar? That aint goin to change in our lifetimes.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Decent Programmer to boot!
October 02, 2012, 07:54:54 PM
#16
Old news is old, because:

All fiat currencies that can be printed in infinity eventually go to Zero, there is a long list of currencies in that graveyard.
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
October 02, 2012, 07:54:04 PM
#15
The Fed Plays All Its Cards

The Fed Plays All Its Cards

October 2, 2012

There never really could be much doubt that the current experiment in competitive global currency debasement would end in anything less than a total war. There was always a chance that one or more of the principal players would snap out of it, change course and save their citizenry from a never ending cycle of devaluation. But developments since September 13, when the U.S. Federal Reserve finally laid all its cards on the table and went "all in" on permanent quantitative easing, indicate that the brainwashing is widely established and will be difficult to break. The vast majority of the world's leading central bankers seem content to walk in lock step down the path of money creation as a means to economic salvation. Never mind that the path will prevent real growth and may ultimately lead off a cliff. The herd is moving. And if it can't be turned, the only thing that one can do is attempt to get out of its way.

The details of the Fed's new plan (which I christened Operation Screw in last week's commentary) are not nearly as important as the philosophy it reveals. The Federal Reserve has already unleashed two huge waves of quantitative easing (purchases of either government securities or mortgage-backed securities) in order to stimulate consumer spending and ignite business activity. But the economy has not responded as hoped. GDP growth has languished below trend, the unemployment rate has stayed north of 8%, and the labor participation rate has fallen to all-time lows. In the meantime, America's fiscal position has grown significantly worse with government debt climbing to unimaginable territory. Despite the lack of results, the conclusion at the Federal Reserve is that the programs were too small and too incremental to be effective. They have determined that something larger, and potentially permanent, would be more likely to do the trick.    

However, in making its new plan public, the Fed made a startling admission. At his press conference, Ben Bernanke backed away from previous assertions that printed money would be effective in directly pushing up business activity. Instead he explained how the new stimulus would be focused directly at the housing market through purchases of mortgage backed securities. He made clear that this strategy is intended to spark a surge in home prices that will in turn pull up the broader economy.  Such a belief requires a dangerous amnesia to the events of the last decade. Despite the calamity that followed the bursting of our last housing bubble, economists feel this to be a wise strategy, proving that a poor memory is a prerequisite for the profession.    

But now that the Fed is thus committed, the focus has shifted to foreign capitals. Not surprisingly, the dollar came under immediate pressure as soon as the plan was announced. In the 24 hours following the announcement, the Greenback was down 2.2% against the euro, 1.6% against the Australian Dollar, and 1.1% against the Canadian Dollar. A week after the Fed's move, the Mexican Peso had appreciated 2.7% against the US dollar. Many currency watchers noted that more dollar declines would be likely if foreign central banks failed to match the Fed in their commitments to print money. On cue, the foreign bankers responded.    

It is seen as gospel in our current "through the looking glass" economic world that a weak currency is something to be desired and a strong currency is something to be disdained. Weak currencies are supposed to offer advantages to exporters and are seen as an easy way to boost GDP. In reality, weak currencies simply create the illusion of growth while eroding real purchasing power. Strong currencies confer greater wealth and potency to an economy. But in today's world,no central banker is prepared to stand idly by while their currency appreciates. As a result, foreign central banks are rolling out their own heavy artillery to combat the Fed.    

Perhaps anticipating the Fed's actions, on September 6th the European Central Bank announced its own plan of unlimited buying of debt of troubled EU nations (however, the plan did come with important concessions to the German point of view - see John Browne's  commentary). On September 17th, the Brazilian central bank auctioned $2.17 billion of reverse swap contracts to help push down the Brazilian Real. The next day, Peru and Turkey cut rates more than expected. On September 19th, the Bank of Japan increased its asset purchase program from 70 trillion yen to 80 trillion and extended the program by six months. It's clear we are seeing a central banking domino effect that is not likely to end in the foreseeable future.    

Although the Fed is directing its fire towards the housing market, the needle they are actually hoping to move is not home prices, but the unemployment rate.  Until that rate falls to the desired levels (some at the Fed have suggested 5.5%), then we can be fairly certain that these injections will continue. This will place permanent pressure on banks around the world to follow suit.    

All of this simultaneous money creation will likely be a boon for nominal stock and real estate prices. But in real terms such gains will likely not keep pace with dollar depreciation. Inflation pushes up prices for just about everything, so stocks and real estate are not likely to prove to be exceptions.   Even bond prices can rise in the short term, but their real values are the most vulnerable to decline.   In fact, even nominal bond prices will ultimately fall, as inflation eventually sends interest rates climbing. But prices for hard assets, precious metals, commodities, and even those few remaining relatively hard currencies should be on the leading edge of the upward trend in prices.

While I believe the Fed's plan will be a disaster for the economy, the silver lining is that it provides investors with a road map. As the policy of the Fed is to debase the currency, those holding dollar based assets may seek alternatives in hard assets and in the currencies of the few remaining countries whose bankers have not drunken so freely from the Keynesian Kool-Aid. We believe that such opportunities do exist. Some broad ideas are outlined in the latest edition of my Global Investor Newsletter, which became available for download this week. I encourage those looking for ways to distance their wealth from the policies of Ben Bernanke to start their search today.


TL;DR => Worldwide inflation is coming. Expect a rise on the prices of goods and precious metals (and BTCitcoin of course  Wink )
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
October 02, 2012, 07:40:23 PM
#14
All fiat currencies that can be printed in infinity eventually go to Zero, there is a long list of currencies in that graveyard.

Agreed.

The real question is how much until it happens? How much months until a million dollar is worth a loaf of bread?
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1029
October 02, 2012, 01:03:34 PM
#13
All fiat currencies that can be printed in infinity eventually go to Zero, there is a long list of currencies in that graveyard.
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
October 01, 2012, 06:16:10 PM
#12
the dollar has one sketchy beast
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
October 01, 2012, 03:27:39 PM
#11
They can continue to trade as if they are solvent and nobody can prove they don't have the funds to back up their positions.

They also have the US military/policing power backing up their position. You can foist any amount of crappy currency or ideas on anyone if you have a big enough army.
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