Topic: Don't Stand With Either Palestine Or Israel (Read 469 times)

“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim”

Op is basically saying they’re neutral on this take of course everyone hopes for peace but to criticize one country doesn’t mean you hate all its citizens and would wish terribly for them
go back on your history lessons because the conflict between Israel and Palestine goes a long way

this war did not start because of the hamas attack nor will it end because of it

Let's be realistic... How do you stand for peace where there's already an on going war where thousands of Civilians are victims?
And let's not try to turn a blind eye on who or why this war is there is the first place.

Regardless of the differences in belief and religious affiliation, for the sake of humanity and for the sake of the so many children that have died as a result of this war it has gotten to the point we really need to call it a wrap regarding the whole war stuff.

Unfortunately, the value of our lives has been brought so low that we don't even feel sympathy for our little children who are suffering in this crisis and we have been busy supporting either of these people fighting to defend there ego.

Let's support peace rather than war and violence.

That has an effect, sir. In Islam there are two options that seem (perhaps) unfair to other religions, where people in the book write down the purpose of life in the world based on what humans themselves want.

When someone gets a luxurious worldly life in a way that deviates from religious rules, they will get a world of wealth, wealth, position, popularity and so on. But he sacrificed a much more eternal afterlife.

Meanwhile, for people who live based on religious guidance, they will only feel pain in this world, because according to the book, life in this world is not longer than life in the afterlife. That means, people who suffer because they carry out Islamic religious orders will get heaven as promised by the book in the afterlife.

Then, Arabia is now starting to experience a setback in terms of religion because some regulations are starting to seem to relax the religious aspect. It might sound strange to hear that in the Islamic religion women are not allowed to leave the house except for basic needs. Strange isn't it? But it is real if you apply the rules written in the book.

Meanwhile, if it is related to the conflict that occurred in Palestine, here it might be due to religious conflict. Jewish Zionists are mentioned in Islamic religious books, that Jews have thoughts above the average people in the world, and there are Zionist groups who tend to like to denigrate the existence of other people or other religions. Hamas defends what it has, and the Jewish Zionist wants to take over what he feels was promised to him by inhumane means.

Everyone loves peace, but not people who are greedy and have wild thoughts like a war-hungry country.

It is comfortable to say whatever seem fit when we watch them fight from another planet that is very far away from the conflict. It would be a nightmare to handle when the conflict just spark right before your door. Imagine you are in the school and there is school shooting just next to your room, can you still say the same? I would side with the shooter to save my own neck without second thoughts, good luck to side with the victims while trying to act hero!

With due respect sir/mama I think you got it wrong with all what you are have said because I don't think you know the history of what is bring this war all the time, is not that am taking side because am neither Palestine nor Israel but let try to speak the truth, Hamas attack first which few was not happy but the way Israel retaliate was very bad because they deliberately strike the Hospital saying they are targeting Hamas which was not their intentions.

Assume you are in shoe of Palestine who was trying to help Israel when no one in the all world were rejecting them, Palestine gave them a land to settle down and now Israel are trying to claim the entire Palestine land by force and you are saying the should be watch them. Hamas are also fight for their right because is so pain when Israel are been suppored by America to chest Palestine.

Based on your logic then you should stand against Israel, Israel is a Jewish state that uses religion as an excuse to perform ethnic cleansing against everyone who is not a jew, it includes Muslims, Christians, and even atheists, if you are going to use Hamas as an excuse (since this is what your biased western media teaches you) then let me inform you that Hamas doesn't extend past the Gaza strip and yet Israel has been commenting human right violation of all sorts against the Palastains of different religion in every place regardless, and these are not just my words -- every Israeli based human rights organization confirms this, the Palestinians don't want to make an Islamic or Christian state, they want to get back the lands which the Zionist Jewish took from them with the help of the British.

So ya, I couldn't agree more, religious-based wars/expansion/settling are the worst things in the world, and we should all stand against Israel.


Oh allow me to correct the date for you, it was 1945 when the U.S detonated two atomic bombs on Japanese civilians and killed hundreds of thousands of them.


Religion and prosperity are not related by any means, the Arabs don't need to drop their religion for prosperity, you can check the GDP scale to figure that much out, and for schools, 55.8% of graduates in Saudi Arabia for example, are women. Women do go to school in ALL Arab countries, they just don't teach them about all the LGPT stuff you teach your kids, ya, and no school-shooting.

So the way I see it, you shouldn't be worrying about arab women, you got enough shit to fix at home first.

Try waving the 1960s peace flag when someone tries to execute you randomly in a suicide bomb, a plane hijack, a beheading ceremony or other forms of barbaric torture.

See if it helps. Maybe you will survive. Maybe not.

Come back with your findings if you can, or in the most likely outcome... not.


Trying to apply modern humane ideologies ("But, I'm for peace") against a barbaric organisation who cares nothing about that (and more about going to a fantasy place in a fantasy afterlife) is just dumb.

History shows that nonsense barbarism (whatever the motivation) eventually dies out in almost all necks of the wood.

And that's a good thing. It brings peace and prosperity for almost all humans in that area. Consider when large parts of the Arab world do drop their backward religious thought somewhat -> prosperity, women can go to school etc. Hamas and other such "organisations" just doesn't want any of that. They treat their own citizens like crap and that certainly means any opposition can be treated even worse. There is no "negotiation" with that, at all. Nor should there be. One is best to ignore such pathetic nuisances no matter how much they jump up and down.

Sure, you can not get involved, you may as well - do something better with your life. But to pretend "ah these are just two different sides", is certainly over simplifying a problem that humans have struggled with for millennia. Millions have died in crusades, forced religious conversions and religious conflicts and everything that stems from that.

Heh, it may be even worse than that.
Any children who was born in Gaza was by default born in a huge prison, his parents could be of any religion or any political side, it does not matter really. In the end of the day, bombs and missiles do not ask about your political or religious views before exploding in your face and kill you.
There could be a group of people there who do not support the actions of those terrorist called Hamas, and yet, they are getting the revenge of Israel equally.
They are human victims which will later translated as "collateral damage" one of the favorite euphemisms of the military arms of western countries in this last decade

First of all, sorry that I noticed your post just now. And no, no way that I' making this up. There is plenty of examples when Western media refuses to call Hamas terrorists, BBC is probably most prominent example:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67083432
But there is more example like The New Yrok Times:
https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/liberal-media-refuses-to-call-out-hamas-for-who-they-are-terrorists/
Or CBC:
https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/liberal-media-refuses-to-call-out-hamas-for-who-they-are-terrorists/
I can continue, but yeah, I'm making this up.

There is no difference F-16 airstrike or attacks with surface-to-surface missile, but I wasn't refering to it. I was talking about Hamas killing innocent participants of music festival or civilians who live in kibbut znear to Gaza. If it's not terrorism, then I don't know what is definition of terrorism.

This is certainly a conflict that has many complexities that make it difficult to have a good opinion. The best opinion to have is to just hope for peace. No matter what people believe, they shouldn’t have to worry about going without food and water or being bombed just because they were brought up with a certain belief system.

The people making up the Israeli security forces seem to be rather risk averse when it comes to consideration of their own hides.  Not very reliable for protection of the general citizenry, nor for direct combat against armed opposition.  Beating up and murdering unarmed people, and especially children, seem to be more their bailiwick.

Looks like the Israeli 'ground invasion' of Gaza might be delayed for a while.  It's easier and safer to kill civilians from afar by bombing hospitals with free weapons from the West while goyim are found to do the boots-on-the-ground duty in Gaza proper.  The U.S. has an excess of spare bullet-stoppers and a compliant and controlled leadership under full control of the Zionist so that's probably the best place to put the focus on.  But mobilization will take some time, and they may have to share the leftover goyim from other more critical fronts.  As for Gaza, we've seen the 'to wet' part of the excuse cycle.  Look for 'to dry', 'to cold', 'to hot', etc, not unlike Ukraine's ill-fated 'greatest counter-offensive.'

You are making this up, Western media refers to Hamas fighters as terrorists which is where you got the word from, your subconscious mind led to you write that word when you were addressing Hamas but it didn't when you addressed the Israeli army simply because you are not used to hearing it.


It won't make me any happier, it would only make you sound less hypocritical to anyone with common sense reading your posts, you said you are not siding with Israel, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.


Since when do "methods of killing" define a terrorist? and how different? what is the difference between kids killed in an airstrike carried by an F-16 or a kid who was killed by an old-fashioned surface-to-surface missile? what seems to be the case here is that you are just making up excuses to avoid calling the Israeli army and government terrorists, what is your next excuse? Hamas and the IDF wear different colored clothes?



 

Again, you see what you want to see. My point is that international status of Palestine is completely different from Ukraine when you said it's completely same thing. I haven't said anything that Palestine shouldn't resist or something.
And how good that you better know than I do myself what media I follow since I was born. I don't have warm feelings towards Israel and never had, but offcourse, you better know what I feel.

If I would follow what Western media says, then I wouldn't even call Hamas as terrorists. They are too afraid to call them so and using words like fighters or miltants instead. I can call Israeli army if you will be more happy after that, but still their methods is a bit different than Hamas.

The majority of the world recognizes Palestine as a sovereign state, so what is your argument here? but then again, even if we were to assume that the 138 countries that recognize it matter less than the 55 countries that don't and agree with your logic, are you saying you think it's okay for Israel to invade Palestine just because (it's only recognized by 138 countries)? does this stand still if China invaded Taiwan which happened to be recognized by only 13 countries.?

The difference here is that the West is not fine with China taking Taiwan, or Russia invading Ukraine, but it's okay for Israel to invade Palestine, there is no difference between Ukraine and Palestine, it only exists in the media that you have been watching since you were born, the reality is, the only difference is the "interest" of the collective west, for the Palestinians who were kicked out of their home which they owned for decades and so did their parents before Israel came into existence have the exact same right to defend themselves as the Ukrainians do -- so you saying these two are different is just the "nice" way of saying Palestinians shouldn't fight back while the Ukrainians should, because we hate Russia and love Israel.


It doesn't mean you are defending them, but when you mention Hamas you say "terrorists" and when you mention the Israeli army, you don't, it's obvious that you don't think they are terrorists because the legacy media does not categorize them as such, despite the fact that you did mention that they are committing genocide, you just don't think they deserve to be called terrorists, but Hamas does, this logic is flawed, but to make a long story short, by your standards and since it was you calling Hamas terrorists, let me ask you one last question -- do you by any means think that the Israeli army and Netanyahu's government terrorists? 

LOL, my westerm bullshit. OK . Calling Palestine as soveriegn state is doubtful statement. There was no such sovereign state as Palestine back in 1948 and even now it's status isn't recognized by about 25% of UN members. You can argue about it, but telling that Ukraine and Palestine situation is same is bullshit.
And these things goes back into history way deeper than 1948, but more into 19th century when jews were allowed to buy land in Palestine.

Well, Ukraine didn't come to Russia to kill or kidnap innocent civilians. Offcourse, there is things like crucified boy in Donbas and similar shit that Russia is spreading since 2014. And yes, I don't deny that Ukraine killed more or less Russian civilians in active phase of war, it's simply inevitable, but they weren't target, unlike during Hamas attack last Saturday.

Palestinians will hate Israel forever and vice versa, same like Ukrainians won't love Russians anytime soon. There is reasons behind it, I don't deny. But there is also brainwashing plays role. If you will push one agenda from young days, something what Russian propaganda doing, it's difficult to have different opinion

So, if I call Hamas as terrorists, it automatically means that I defend Israel. That's good one. But if it's not clear enough, I don't support what Israel is doing now in Gaza and in one of my posts I even called their actions as genocide.
Though, If Hamas would have same capabilities as Israel, I suppose that they would act in not less brutal way.

Simple ethics (and established international and natural law) induces me to stand pretty firmly with Palestine in this whole 'Israel' situation.  At least most of the time though I'm sure that Palestinians and their handlers breach ethical standards on occasion.  Most reports of such breaches seem to be inventions of the Zionists and their properties (specifically the mainstream media and political apparatus in most Western countries which are firmly in the grip of the the financial elite who control the Zionists.)

It's ambiguous to me just where the 'settlers' fall on the combatant scale.  They 'settle' with the loudly stated goal of achieving property theft and genocide of the current population.  My call would be that people who willingly 'settle' are combatants, but the children of said are not since they had no say in the matter.

As for ethics and decency, it looks to me that Muslims and Christians share similar values.  So-called 'Jews' who are informed by the racist tenets expressed in the Babylonian Talmud and Kabbalhistic texts are a deep and dark offshoot root vis-a-vis the 'Abarhamic' religions.  Target number one of the Talmudics was to get rid of Jews who rejected those relatively recent texts/teachings, and they succeeded admirably to where Karaite Jews are basically extinct.  Thankfully there are a ton of secular Jews and a fair number of them are quite decent (and quite bold and truthful about things.)

Things are likely to get a lot worse for Israelis in the coming decades.  Many Israelis know it and they have a pretty good idea about how and why:

  https://www.bitchute.com/video/1FHEwUsSm2JU/

As an American the Palestinians never cause me or my country any problems.  They do there thing and I do mine.  'Jews', or some segment of them, on the other hand, rob me blind and corrupt the shit out of my country (or former country) in a myriad of devastating ways.  That segment is most associated with the banking sector, but also academia.  It's pretty clear to me that to 'them' the United States is just as much of a target as the West Bank and Gaza.  They just have use different tactics.  Similar to the way the fate of a meat cow and a dairy cow is similar but their path to the end-points is different.

I will not support anyone in the war between two terrorists. I hope there will be peace. But;

It is a city that is under blockade, is the world's most populous city per square meter, cannot meet its needs such as electricity, water and food, and is under bombs. Every child born here is a natural warrior. Unless Israel gives up this attitude, peace will never come. The establishment of a free Palestinian state is essential for peace.

Why, because it doesn't fit well within your western bullshit?

Russia vs Ukraine goes way back in history, the Russians claim it's their land due to "history", it's up to you if you don't want to compare the two conflicts but they are the same, you have two sovereign states (Ukraine and Palestine) and two invaders (Russia and Israel) the main difference is that Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 while Israel Invaded Palestine in 1948 and they keep expanding the invasion day by day with the support of your tax money.

So how is it okay for Ukraine to defend itself but it's not for Palestine? you need a truck full of hypocrisy to swallow that contradiction.


The Ukrainians are also doing terrible things to the Russians, so by your standards -- they shouldn't do that, they should just sit back and wait for the Russians to take their land.


There is no such thing as build on hate, you need reasons to hate, seeing someone invade your country, take your land, kill your people, will automatically make you hate them, this is how life works, good luck convincing the Ukriain future generation who are yet to be born not to hate Russia.


What is your definition of "terrorists" is it the killing of children? Israel has killed far more children, is it the number of buildings destroyed? Israel destroyed an order of magnitude more buildings than Hamas, so how can you call Hamas terrorists and not the Israeli army? you are comparing an invader to someone who is protecting their country, if you can't be fair and call things as they are you should at least not be a hypocrite, the least you could do is call both of them terrorists.

This would only happen in a perfect world, but the world we live in is a rotten one.
I believe and agree that this should be the message. We don't have to pick sides. If the whole world condemned the fighting from the beginning and pushed for more peaceful ways, maybe it wouldn't have escalated to this level.
Even right now, I know neither Palestine nor Israel would just automatically decide to stop fighting but that should be the message the whole world puts out. We don't have to pick sides and fuel the crisis further. We should advocate for more diplomatic ways.


Why do we have to fight for our God(s)?
Doesn't it sound dumb when people are fighting for their God? If a God is truly supreme or wants to be supreme, how's me killing humans making him supreme? Why can't he fight his battles himself? He or they should fight against the other gods.

If you serve a god that you say is supreme and he asked you to kill everybody not following him then that god is not worth following because he made those people and he should have known that they won't follow him so why create them?