Topic: [Doubt the possibility of a scam] BestChange Bounty and Signature Campaign. - page 3. (Read 1896 times)

No it shows he has no idea what he is doing or saying.

I’m right he is wrong, read the whole thread

But you don't see it as an pattern on his previous sent trust feedbacks, as it clearly shows he sends feedbacks pretty carefully, above was just an indication of him not agreeing with red tagging them for what could be done with a neutral.

Royse gave a nice green trust to a possibly scammy campaign - so yes I will abuse royse and petition other DT members to exclude him

he shouldn't be anywhere near DT if he doesn't understand what his positive and negative tags do

I agree with tagging them for using escorw until the first payment is made for safety reasons and to warn applicants.

But, I don't agree with TMAN's poetry on Royse777 and his reasons to get him off DT as the above could also be donated by a neutral and his ideology seem right at a point.

incorrect, they can be tagged for refusing escrow. prevention is better than cure.

flags are concrete - tags are fluid and act as a warning

learn about the trust system before you stick your dick into it and enjoy being excluded from DT in the future

The neutral you left is good enough to warn the visitors now.

On my last post to you, I had this point that you tagged them without doing any investigations of those scam accusations which was clear in your post before me and also tagged them just because they did not use escrow. As always, I can tag them only if they do not pay me after a week and with that I can create a flag 3 too.

There are some problems that arise here when and before this topic I made.

1. At the core of the topic, the company (BestChange) has a bad reputation for fraud in client money, in a few dollars against its clients a few years ago.

2. Now they start by promoting their website with bounty and sig campaigns, in high pay to campaign participants and bounties, without using existing escrow, I don't trust them.

3. Red and neutral trust is prioritized for campaign managers for security and payment warnings if not using an escrow service, that they have been involved in a number of fraud cases, possibly like @ yahoo62278 say.

4. If the campaigners are willing to consider escrow, maybe some members here can accept it, and disappear from accusations of fraud they have committed.

5. Here it does not discuss the issue of DT or trust, which is essentially for the comfort and security of bitcointalk members and the Forum against fraud.

6. I support @TMAN what he did was right, in weighing, remembering, and caring about what happened in this forum, and he has said two options for removing red trusts or vice versa.

7. I will see the development of the next campaign, what will happen, will I completely erase the neutral beliefs or vice versa in red and flag against alleged fraud.

my poetry always flows you fucktard

I could raise flag 1, you could raise flag 3 for joining the pajeet campaign with no escrow.

I am right you are wrong, everyone is agreeing with me and you are not helping your cause you dick

Please do not start your poetry.

You mean if I start a business then you will not do business with me :-P
Пoйми, чтo я имeю в видy

For honest, even i personally sometimes don't like what TMAN says, now he is clearly right. If something will go fine, trust will be removed, but newbies should be warned. Specially, because bestchange is company founded by russians (i mean by people from post USSR). You can trust only to their deeds, not their words.

Asking to use escrow is normal demand. It's normal way in any business.

if they scam then its a flag.

if  you dont care about DT and you are showing you have 0 comprehension about how it should work then clear your trust list or ask to be excluded.

it aint hard you fucking spaznozzle forker

I too do not hand out greens very easily. I have few guys who took large amount of loans and if I was into sending out greens very easily then those guys deserves the greens. I only leave a green when I am 100% confident about it.

Wrong unless you get some of the sarcastic part of my last post. Quoting bitmover and telling he has a point was just a diversion. Enough with the clues.

I can tell you that you have no idea where to send red tag. There are scopes of leaving red tag and leaving neutral tag. But leave it and let's not argue with who is wrong and who is right here. We both realized one thing here so far is that you and me are good in disagreement in this matter.

By now you should have some decent idea that I really less care to be in the DT. So it does not matter for me. I still have doubt that your tag was appropriate there. You can only tag them if they do not pay their participants.

If they agree with you then of-course they should exclude me.

This is proof that you shouldn't be on DT as you have no idea what the positive trust you give shows to newbies.

you will stay on my exclude list till you show you understand the consequences of your actions, I also will call for other DT1 members to exclude you.

I believe you should do whatever you want and you believe is right and do not care if you are going to stay in dt or not.
DT rules changes and your status come and go, but your reputation stays.

I think you should be more careful when leaving a green trust than when leaving a red one.
I wouldn't mark and account green until I received lots of payments from that account or having a long interaction

Just found out they have accepted me in their signature campaign. I applied there yesterday knowing that they do not have any escrow. There are campaigns we have seen without escrow and in the first glance it make sense that they will just scam but in this one, I did not feel any red alarm and this is why I applied (this is my personal experience by the way. Other does not have to have the same feeling). I can be damn wrong and after a week they may not pay me which is very possible but in this case they get red tag from me and also from other DTs or users without any question. But right now giving them red seems too harsh.

There are no question that in this forum it is easy to scam users and as a community we those have good experience, we try to protect them. And you are right that 9 out of 10 times who refuse to escrow turns out scammer. Best_Change can resolve it just by asking for an escrow but I have no idea why they are not doing it however not doing this does not mean that we as a community will force them to do it. This topic by eddie13 is a good read: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mosprognoz-needs-to-learn-5207250

There are no question that I am new compared to you but this is also true that I also learnt a lot on my way in this forum to protect me and the community. Some of the things but not limited to everything of course is here.

I know when two DT users especially DT user like you who are with the community longer before than me and has a big follow base gets the edge in most of the cases and in this case hearing you actually will benefit me and all those opportunist (the forum is full with opportunist, most of them actually do not care about the community but just pretend to be a part of it) would do this. Shall I do this too?

I think I should but a part of me still says that this is wrong, this is very harsh and this tag of yours should get a counter. A part of me says that I should stand by my decision but if I do then that means that I will be losing my DT status? Does one really need a DT status too speak for what they feel right?

You have a point and I removed my counter.

All tags should be fluid, if it turns into a scam then a flag and more red will rain down on them, if not then the tags can be removed. its not like the DT system of a few years ago where DT1 wouldnt budge.

I agree with TMAN here.
The new Trust system does not work like this anymore Royse777, you cannot counter a red tag with a green one. They will be marked as +1 and -1.

The green mark you gave them is un earned and certainly not deserved.

a -1 red tag is more deserving than your green one. Their attitude is suspicious and anyone dealing with them may lose money.

Edit: What is terrible about the +1 in their account, is that newbies can think the account should be trusted, while they clearly can't trust them. They may prove themselves to be trusted (if they pay), but they are promising high payment without any escrow.

When I saw their campaign thread and large amount of applications, also there was some questions about escrow then I had asked them to hire someone from trusted & reputed managers to manage their campaign. But seems they have ignored my message. I didn't recommend for any specific manager (even not for me), because I believe any trusted manager will not handle such as campaign without escrow fund. But as yahoo62278 said, there is huge amount of reward, its quite reasonable to ask them hire escrow or manager for their campaign since account is very new.

Red tag is appropriate in my opinion to warn participants that their reward is on risk. Its removable, if they paid as promised then rad tag would be reconsider.


Fine, if you don't see any valid reason to tag then you could avoid to tag him. But what is the valid reason to counter with positive feedback?

Just say, they are legit and they paid regularly then TMAN would remove negative feedback, but if incase they scam participants then what will happen?

Your new and don't have much trading history here, so ill forgive your nativity in the 1st instance, I on the other hand have traded hundreds of BTC here over the years and can tell you anyone who refuses to use escrow is 9 times out of 10 a scammer.

you have powers now you are on the DT lists please think about what a positive from you does.

anyway up to you how you behave, although I can assure you other DT members will exclude you if you behave in such a way moving forwards 

The red tag is being used as it should IMO. TMAN and YOSHIE are just giving a warning to the community. Both tags would be removed if the company follows through with payments.

It is the companies choice as to whether they want to hire a manager, or an escrow. They can manage it themselves if they wish, but will have to deal with the red tag until they prove they are going to pay out. I don't see an issue with the way this is being handled. The amount is fairly large when you add in the bounty portion+ the signature campaign. Likely looking at around 1btc or close in the 1st week.

Bottom line, they could have hired an escrow for .5%-3% per week or a manager and saved all these tags. They choose not to, which is their prerogative. With all of you guys signing up for the pretty decent rates, how would you want the community to proceed if they decided to take all the free advertising and say fuck you to paying? Which btw is still an option for them. People are complaining now that they don't deserve a tag and giving countertags. How foolish will you look if they run off?

The tags are not permanent by no means long as they make the payments they're offering. Let time go by and see what happens.