DT1 users may be artificially increasing their own trust (Updated March 26th) - page 2.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: LoyceV on March 25, 2018, 07:27:31 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 21, 2018, 11:38:21 AM

So I altered list and I am now at 536 vs 670

I think you've set your Trust depth to 3 (instead of the default value 2). For people who stick to the default, your trust is currently 145: -0 / +15.

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 25, 2018, 07:02:11 AM

I may be adding kilo17 today and I think that will boost my score. But he has helped a lot of peopel and done a lot for bitcointalk

393 0 41 is what I am before I add him

393: -0 / +41 I stayed at that number

The effect on DT2 may or may not be different than DT3.

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 24, 2018, 06:46:04 PM

Such as the list on post reporting . I could decide to appoint everyone on that list if they are over 600 with 95% accurate. It shows no conflicts since I don’t pick anyone I trade with. But I am not sure that is a good way to pick people

This would be a terrible idea: anybody can go to the Altcoin-board and easily report 600 bad posts. That shouldn't give him the power to leave trusted feedback.

Okay

trust value at 4 Trust:   556: -0 / +58
trust value at 3 Trust:   343: -0 / +36
trust value at 2 Trust:   146: -0 / +16

My trimmed list

-ck
buysolar
DefaultTrust
HagssFIN
generalt
kilo17

Now I simply say this for all default trust people the op accused more then one of us for manipulating our numbers.
I am USA based and live in New Jersey this thread subjects me to possible litigation and anyone else op mentioned.

A person that lost money buying from anyone I listed could say my high trust caused them to purchase for instance Dragonmint miners.

I would then need to defend myself

So frankly to the op

who are you?

~~@ theymos after reviewing this thread I think I want off the list.~~

for now I have altered my trust list to this

-ck
buysolar
HagssFIN
generalt
kilo17

note I left DefaultTrust off the list

my numbers are now

Trust:   126: -0 / +14 at level 2

I will reconsider my involvement with DT1 in a week or 2. The op's accusations clearly have created a basis for me to think very long and hard about this as I live in a very litigious part of the USA : New Jersey.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 21, 2018, 11:38:21 AM

So I altered list and I am now at 536 vs 670

I think you've set your Trust depth to 3 (instead of the default value 2). For people who stick to the default, your trust is currently 145: -0 / +15.

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 25, 2018, 07:02:11 AM

I may be adding kilo17 today and I think that will boost my score. But he has helped a lot of peopel and done a lot for bitcointalk

393 0 41 is what I am before I add him

393: -0 / +41 I stayed at that number

The effect on DT2 may or may not be different than DT3.

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 24, 2018, 06:46:04 PM

Such as the list on post reporting . I could decide to appoint everyone on that list if they are over 600 with 95% accurate. It shows no conflicts since I don’t pick anyone I trade with. But I am not sure that is a good way to pick people

This would be a terrible idea: anybody can go to the Altcoin-board and easily report 600 bad posts. That shouldn't give him the power to leave trusted feedback.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Jet Cash on March 25, 2018, 07:07:24 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 24, 2018, 06:46:04 PM

Such as the list on post reporting . I could decide to appoint everyone on that list if they are over 600 with 95% accurate. It shows no conflicts since I don’t pick anyone I trade with. But I am not sure that is a good way to pick people

This illustrates one of the problems that I have with the trust system. I don't understand why reporting posts accurately should indicate that a person can be trusted in a financial transaction.

I hear you.

Frankly when I now look at the current list I have

-ck
CrazyGuy
Cablez
davecoin
lazlopanaflex
buysolar
not.you
DefaultTrust
Blazed
btcxcg
edonkey
HagssFIN
generalt
kilo17

and I add in this rule for trust I know where you live and have contacted you in person or telephone or emails.

my list shrinks to this

-ck
buysolar
HagssFIN
generalt
kilo17
DefaultTrust

So based on the op and possible liability for me I should further shrink my list to just that.

I certainly don't want someone saying my list caused them a monetary loss.

So for now I think I will shrink my list again.

As I think you would be safe dealing with those people and I know they help the forum.

when I look at my profile I read this

Trust: 343: -0 / +36

Jet Cash

legendary

Activity: 2814

Merit: 2472

https://JetCash.com

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 24, 2018, 06:46:04 PM

Such as the list on post reporting . I could decide to appoint everyone on that list if they are over 600 with 95% accurate. It shows no conflicts since I don’t pick anyone I trade with. But I am not sure that is a good way to pick people

This illustrates one of the problems that I have with the trust system. I don't understand why reporting posts accurately should indicate that a person can be trusted in a financial transaction.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: botany on March 24, 2018, 03:13:10 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 23, 2018, 10:39:36 PM

I want to mention a few things I looked at my list and could remove more from it.
I will. But I have 75 or 76 feedbacks I left out I know I can add more then 10 of them by multiple criteria mentioned here. I don’t because it would help my numbers I would approach 1000 for my score.

Yet those people are good for the forum.

Also I report posts around 250 with about 97% accuracy.

I have no idea if anyone else does this or should I say it that I don’t know stats on this for anyone else.

So I can’t know how much anyone helps this way.
I can not read pms not that I want to but I have no idea of any good any one does via pms.
An example I had no idea this thread was here but someone pm’d me. So that person helped the forum by getting me on the thread.

If you feel that adding those 10 people would be good to the forum, they should obviously added. It would improve decentralization of DT. The fact that they left you positive feedback shouldn't count against them. Being on DT1 trust is a far more important indicator of being trustworthy than having a 'dark green' trust score.

I do not think accuracy in reporting posts counts towards determining whether somebody's feedback can be trusted. It might help if you want to act against spammers, but that is something which I feel moderators should be doing in any case.

this is my issue. I do 20000 usd in business with x he is wonderful I do 5 deals over 18 months no issues. I know where he lives and have been to his house.

I am being asked to not put him in for trust because he does not fit the op's standards of what trust list is for. Better in the case of generalt he gave me feedbacks I should leave him off.

Well I take the fact I am on DT1 list seriously and I removed a lot of names in the last few days.

I am now going to be looking to see names to put in. Since I mostly deal with mining and gear my name list will always in that direction.

I may be adding kilo17 today and I think that will boost my score. But he has helped a lot of peopel and done a lot for bitcointalk

393 0 41 is what I am before I add him

393: -0 / +41 I stayed at that number

and this is my list now

-ck
CrazyGuy
Cablez
davecoin
lazlopanaflex
buysolar
not.you
DefaultTrust
Blazed
btcxcg
edonkey
HagssFIN
generalt
kilo17

if I do only this for my list

DefaultTrust

I drop to this

Trust: 303: -0 / +32 just default

Trust: 393: -0 / +41 so my people added moved me to

here is another point with a score of

303: -0 / +32 I think it is high enough to be trusted Grin

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Annon001 - You should re-run the numbers and see how much of a difference the changes have made the numbers.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18711

Would it be possible for theymos to implement a system where DT2 members do not boost the ratings of DT1 members, unless the DT2 member has been added by 2 or more DT1s? Would pretty much solve this entire issue immediately.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: TrumpD on March 24, 2018, 10:37:21 AM

I've never experienced a heated thread with a lot of "high" ranking members before. This is truly "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"... *takes out popcorn and enjoys the show* One thing is clear out of this, there has to be a way, for transparent accountability no matter what level one is on. Just a suggestion *retreats back into seat*

There are difficult issues for trust guys to deal with .

I pruned my list and dropped from 700 to 375 score.

I had already left 70 plus people out that if I put on trust my list would jump over 1000 score.

I will later check those 70 out and see if I think they should go on the list. And each and every one I list brings my score higher.

So I have a built in conflict of interest but it would all be visible and someone like the op would see what i did.

My worry is if I only trust people that did not trust me. Then I could have a huge list. With hundreds of people

Such as the list on post reporting . I could decide to appoint everyone on that list if they are over 600 with 95% accurate. It shows no conflicts since I don’t pick anyone I trade with. But I am not sure that is a good way to pick people

TrumpD

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 265

I've never experienced a heated thread with a lot of "high" ranking members before. This is truly "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"... *takes out popcorn and enjoys the show* One thing is clear out of this, there has to be a way, for transparent accountability no matter what level one is on. Just a suggestion *retreats back into seat*

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: LoyceV on March 24, 2018, 03:16:58 AM

Quote from: Blazed on March 23, 2018, 10:27:14 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on March 23, 2018, 10:25:20 PM

Quote from: Blazed on March 23, 2018, 10:15:12 PM

I would love to see a private section added for the DT1 members to chat about who we are adding and why.

Why not do this publicly? Transparency is good.

The amount of comments would probably make this hard to get done. Maybe if we had a thread that only DT could post in?

DarkStar_ beat me to it. Instead of a closed door meeting, I think it would be interesting to read this in public.
You could create a self-moderated thread in Reputation, with a local rule that only DT1 members can post there. Delete anything else.
A thread filled with DT1 sounds scary enough not to break local rules, and if someone else posts there anyway, just delete it.

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 23, 2018, 10:39:36 PM

Also I report posts around 250 with about 97% accuracy.

I have no idea if anyone else does this or should I say it that I don’t know stats on this for anyone else.

See Report to Moderator stats [Added few questions for Mods].

Nice info but it only goes to about 600 reported posts

and i did 250 or so. so people from 250 to 600 reports are left out.

I further changed my trust list
-ck
CrazyGuy
Cablez
davecoin
Stunna
lazlopanaflex
buysolar
not.you
DefaultTrust
Blazed
btcxcg
edonkey
HagssFIN
wlefever
generalt
Mikestang
vg54dett
AriesIV10
VoskCoin

is now
-ck
CrazyGuy
Cablez
davecoin
Stunna
lazlopanaflex
buysolar
not.you
DefaultTrust
Blazed
btcxcg
edonkey
HagssFIN

generalt

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: Blazed on March 23, 2018, 10:27:14 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on March 23, 2018, 10:25:20 PM

Quote from: Blazed on March 23, 2018, 10:15:12 PM

I would love to see a private section added for the DT1 members to chat about who we are adding and why.

Why not do this publicly? Transparency is good.

The amount of comments would probably make this hard to get done. Maybe if we had a thread that only DT could post in?

DarkStar_ beat me to it. Instead of a closed door meeting, I think it would be interesting to read this in public.
You could create a self-moderated thread in Reputation, with a local rule that only DT1 members can post there. Delete anything else.
A thread filled with DT1 sounds scary enough not to break local rules, and if someone else posts there anyway, just delete it.

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 23, 2018, 10:39:36 PM

Also I report posts around 250 with about 97% accuracy.

I have no idea if anyone else does this or should I say it that I don’t know stats on this for anyone else.

See Report to Moderator stats [Added few questions for Mods].

botany

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1064

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 23, 2018, 10:39:36 PM

I want to mention a few things I looked at my list and could remove more from it.
I will. But I have 75 or 76 feedbacks I left out I know I can add more then 10 of them by multiple criteria mentioned here. I don’t because it would help my numbers I would approach 1000 for my score.

Yet those people are good for the forum.

Also I report posts around 250 with about 97% accuracy.

I have no idea if anyone else does this or should I say it that I don’t know stats on this for anyone else.

So I can’t know how much anyone helps this way.
I can not read pms not that I want to but I have no idea of any good any one does via pms.
An example I had no idea this thread was here but someone pm’d me. So that person helped the forum by getting me on the thread.

If you feel that adding those 10 people would be good to the forum, they should obviously added. It would improve decentralization of DT. The fact that they left you positive feedback shouldn't count against them. Being on DT1 trust is a far more important indicator of being trustworthy than having a 'dark green' trust score.

I do not think accuracy in reporting posts counts towards determining whether somebody's feedback can be trusted. It might help if you want to act against spammers, but that is something which I feel moderators should be doing in any case.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: DarkStar_ on March 23, 2018, 10:25:20 PM

Quote from: Blazed on March 23, 2018, 10:15:12 PM

Quote from: MagicSmoker on March 23, 2018, 06:48:45 PM

Quote from: Annon001 on March 20, 2018, 05:52:51 PM

philipma1957
260: -0 / +27
45: -0 / +5
+215: +22 (440%)

...

I've marked them with these colours:
Ideal, no artificial trust increase
Acceptable, normal
Barely acceptable
Mostly unacceptable but could have been a mistake which must be fixed immediately
Absolutely unacceptable, clear trust manipulation

FWIW, philipma1957 sells a lot of hardware on the forum - in fact, I recently bought a mobo from him - and I suspect he has lots of repeat customers which might skew his positive trust or make it look suspicious.

Nothing about philipma1957 is suspect...he has proven him self a 100x over trust wise. OP was just pointing out is that some of his additions to the DT network did not really help the network. I have traded with phil a bunch of times over the years as have many here and we all know he is legit. I think it is a good thing that people audit the DT1 members and should always continue to monitor who we add. I would love to see a private section added for the DT1 members to chat about who we are adding and why. There is not any rules set forth when we get added and we rarely if ever chat about who is added to DT2 and why etc...

Why not do this publicly? Transparency is good.

I want to mention a few things I looked at my list and could remove more from it.
I will. But I have 75 or 76 feedbacks I left out I know I can add more then 10 of them by multiple criteria mentioned here. I don’t because it would help my numbers I would approach 1000 for my score.

Yet those people are good for the forum.

Also I report posts around 250 with about 97% accuracy.

I have no idea if anyone else does this or should I say it that I don’t know stats on this for anyone else.

So I can’t know how much anyone helps this way.
I can not read pms not that I want to but I have no idea of any good any one does via pms.
An example I had no idea this thread was here but someone pm’d me. So that person helped the forum by getting me on the thread.

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: DarkStar_ on March 23, 2018, 10:25:20 PM

Quote from: Blazed on March 23, 2018, 10:15:12 PM

Quote from: MagicSmoker on March 23, 2018, 06:48:45 PM

Quote from: Annon001 on March 20, 2018, 05:52:51 PM

philipma1957
260: -0 / +27
45: -0 / +5
+215: +22 (440%)

...

I've marked them with these colours:
Ideal, no artificial trust increase
Acceptable, normal
Barely acceptable
Mostly unacceptable but could have been a mistake which must be fixed immediately
Absolutely unacceptable, clear trust manipulation

FWIW, philipma1957 sells a lot of hardware on the forum - in fact, I recently bought a mobo from him - and I suspect he has lots of repeat customers which might skew his positive trust or make it look suspicious.

Nothing about philipma1957 is suspect...he has proven him self a 100x over trust wise. OP was just pointing out is that some of his additions to the DT network did not really help the network. I have traded with phil a bunch of times over the years as have many here and we all know he is legit. I think it is a good thing that people audit the DT1 members and should always continue to monitor who we add. I would love to see a private section added for the DT1 members to chat about who we are adding and why. There is not any rules set forth when we get added and we rarely if ever chat about who is added to DT2 and why etc...

Why not do this publicly? Transparency is good.

The amount of comments would probably make this hard to get done. Maybe if we had a thread that only DT could post in?

DarkStar_

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 3284

Quote from: Blazed on March 23, 2018, 10:15:12 PM

Quote from: MagicSmoker on March 23, 2018, 06:48:45 PM

Quote from: Annon001 on March 20, 2018, 05:52:51 PM

philipma1957
260: -0 / +27
45: -0 / +5
+215: +22 (440%)

...

I've marked them with these colours:
Ideal, no artificial trust increase
Acceptable, normal
Barely acceptable
Mostly unacceptable but could have been a mistake which must be fixed immediately
Absolutely unacceptable, clear trust manipulation

FWIW, philipma1957 sells a lot of hardware on the forum - in fact, I recently bought a mobo from him - and I suspect he has lots of repeat customers which might skew his positive trust or make it look suspicious.

Nothing about philipma1957 is suspect...he has proven him self a 100x over trust wise. OP was just pointing out is that some of his additions to the DT network did not really help the network. I have traded with phil a bunch of times over the years as have many here and we all know he is legit. I think it is a good thing that people audit the DT1 members and should always continue to monitor who we add. I would love to see a private section added for the DT1 members to chat about who we are adding and why. There is not any rules set forth when we get added and we rarely if ever chat about who is added to DT2 and why etc...

Why not do this publicly? Transparency is good.

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: MagicSmoker on March 23, 2018, 06:48:45 PM

Quote from: Annon001 on March 20, 2018, 05:52:51 PM

philipma1957
260: -0 / +27
45: -0 / +5
+215: +22 (440%)

...

I've marked them with these colours:
Ideal, no artificial trust increase
Acceptable, normal
Barely acceptable
Mostly unacceptable but could have been a mistake which must be fixed immediately
Absolutely unacceptable, clear trust manipulation

FWIW, philipma1957 sells a lot of hardware on the forum - in fact, I recently bought a mobo from him - and I suspect he has lots of repeat customers which might skew his positive trust or make it look suspicious.

Nothing about philipma1957 is suspect...he has proven him self a 100x over trust wise. OP was just pointing out is that some of his additions to the DT network did not really help the network. I have traded with phil a bunch of times over the years as have many here and we all know he is legit. I think it is a good thing that people audit the DT1 members and should always continue to monitor who we add. I would love to see a private section added for the DT1 members to chat about who we are adding and why. There is not any rules set forth when we get added and we rarely if ever chat about who is added to DT2 and why etc...

MagicSmoker

full member

Activity: 420

Merit: 184

Quote from: Annon001 on March 20, 2018, 05:52:51 PM

philipma1957
260: -0 / +27
45: -0 / +5
+215: +22 (440%)

...

I've marked them with these colours:
Ideal, no artificial trust increase
Acceptable, normal
Barely acceptable
Mostly unacceptable but could have been a mistake which must be fixed immediately
Absolutely unacceptable, clear trust manipulation

FWIW, philipma1957 sells a lot of hardware on the forum - in fact, I recently bought a mobo from him - and I suspect he has lots of repeat customers which might skew his positive trust or make it look suspicious.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18711

Quote from: suchmoon on March 23, 2018, 03:40:49 PM

Quote from: ibminer on March 23, 2018, 03:22:05 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on March 23, 2018, 02:55:23 PM

I think it's possible to trust someone's judgement even if they haven't left a lot of (or any) feedback ratings yet. The OP's approach is just way too blunt.

I might trust my doctor to have good judgement on what medication I need but I wouldn't trust his or her judgement to leave feedback to someone on this forum.

What if the feedback is about Lauda's pill addiction?

Ok, I'll get my coat.

What about a pharmacist?

Hold the door suchmoon, I'm just coming.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: ibminer on March 23, 2018, 03:22:05 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on March 23, 2018, 02:55:23 PM

I think it's possible to trust someone's judgement even if they haven't left a lot of (or any) feedback ratings yet. The OP's approach is just way too blunt.

I might trust my doctor to have good judgement on what medication I need but I wouldn't trust his or her judgement to leave feedback to someone on this forum.

What if the feedback is about Lauda's pill addiction?

Ok, I'll get my coat.

ibminer

legendary

Activity: 1789

Merit: 2535

Goonies never say die.

Quote from: suchmoon on March 23, 2018, 02:55:23 PM

I think it's possible to trust someone's judgement even if they haven't left a lot of (or any) feedback ratings yet. The OP's approach is just way too blunt.

I might trust my doctor to have good judgement on what medication I need but I wouldn't trust his or her judgement to leave feedback to someone on this forum.

Quote from: suchmoon on March 23, 2018, 03:40:49 PM

What if the feedback is about Lauda's pill addiction?

Ok, I'll get my coat.

The doctor doesn't even know who Lauda is, nor the knowledge needed to make Lauda send a signed message to verify Lauda == his patient! Grin

Topic: DT1 users may be artificially increasing their own trust (Updated March 26th) - page 2. (Read 2114 times)