I just read the original accusation case and this is how I see it. I hope TwitchySeal doesn't mind other users posting their feedback and opinions.
Ozafejyw782 made a deposit of 2 BTC. The 100% deposit bonus credited him with another 2 BTC as a bonus.
Ozafejyw782 now has 4 BTC in his account, and if I understood correctly, he was able to make bets with those 4 Bitcoins. Is that correct?
He made a few bets and managed to win one extra Bitcoin. He now has 5 BTC as a balance, but he still hasn't met the wagering requirements, which means he can't request to withdraw those coins. At one point, he gives up and wants to withdraw everything. His original 2 BTC, the 2 BTC as bonus, and the additional 1 BTC of profit that he earned with help of his original deposit + the bonus.
Duckdice obviously won't allow it because the bonus rollover requirements haven't been fulfilled. I don't think Duckdice acted wrongly unless their TOS and Bonus TOS stated that the player has the right to cancel the rollover requirements at any time, and that he would be credited with the money he won until that point. I don't think that was the case, was it?
The issue was resolved by returning the original 2 BTC deposit. That's OK. But there is one more issue. The player can obviously not be allowed to withdraw 5 BTC. He can also not be allowed to withdraw 3 BTC (2 BTC original deposit + 1 BTC of earnings) because that 1 BTC of extra profit came thanks to wagers made with the bonus funds as well. But if he played with his own 2 BTC as well, shouldn't he be allowed to withdraw winnings that would represent the profit he would have made if he placed wagers only with those 2 BTC? In this case, instead of 1 BTC of profit, only 0.5 BTC. Maybe that would have been the most optimal solution.
Topic: Duckdice Reputation Thread - page 2. (Read 799 times)
What I don't quite understand is why this is a self-moderated thread. If you want to discuss in an objective and unbiased way, a self-moderated thread is not the right way, unless you convince me otherwise, I don't see it.
If by some chance I get this comment deleted I will open another thread to discuss this.
If by some chance I get this comment deleted I will open another thread to discuss this.
So thread doesn't get over run with sig spam and a couple trolls with lots of accounts.
What I don't quite understand is why this is a self-moderated thread. If you want to discuss in an objective and unbiased way, a self-moderated thread is not the right way, unless you convince me otherwise, I don't see it.
If by some chance I get this comment deleted I will open another thread to discuss this.
If by some chance I get this comment deleted I will open another thread to discuss this.
Hi there , TwitchySeal created the thread , he's not related to duckdice in any way whatsoever , but we agreed on self moderation , just in case we get bot spammed , we had some issues in the past with this where our threads were constantly attacked/trolled by a user creating multiple accounts , so Twitchy will have complete control over deleting any troll messages. As duckdice representatives we have no control over what comments are on the thread, which I believe is the right way to do a reputation thread.
What I don't quite understand is why this is a self-moderated thread. If you want to discuss in an objective and unbiased way, a self-moderated thread is not the right way, unless you convince me otherwise, I don't see it.
If by some chance I get this comment deleted I will open another thread to discuss this.
If by some chance I get this comment deleted I will open another thread to discuss this.
Just posting from our official duckdice account that the main body of the thread was indeed written by DuckDice, and posted on our behalf by TwitchySeal — we have done so in the hope a self-moderated thread allows for the creation of a platform for people to properly assess what we do as a casino without the additional worry of signature campaign posting clogging up the thread, as well as generally allowing a good conversation to be had.
Bobstone and Kirito89 as our support members will be the ones primarily handling questions, but this thread is actively monitored by all our team in hope of learning from you as the community what we can do better, and what we are doing right.
Thank you so much for taking the time to interact with this.
Bobstone and Kirito89 as our support members will be the ones primarily handling questions, but this thread is actively monitored by all our team in hope of learning from you as the community what we can do better, and what we are doing right.
Thank you so much for taking the time to interact with this.
The original accusation on the forum: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/duckdiceio-scam-and-shady-behavior-2022797)
My Response
Mishandling a multi-account situation in private messaging: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/idiots-warning-duckdice-5369223)
My Response
Scam accusations involving pending reviews: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/duckdiceio-scam-me-5144652)
The 3.11btc rain per user bug: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/duckdice-reward-scam-5090388)
Nomercy lossback: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/they-paid-me-25k-usd-as-a-loseback-in-total1-so-its-6-loseback-5364266)
Richardo30 aka Screwing1000 aka multiple other bitcointalk accounts , aswell as duckdice accounts: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/duckdiceio-5381469)
My Response
Mishandling a multi-account situation in private messaging: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/idiots-warning-duckdice-5369223)
My Response
Scam accusations involving pending reviews: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/duckdiceio-scam-me-5144652)
The 3.11btc rain per user bug: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/duckdice-reward-scam-5090388)
Nomercy lossback: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/they-paid-me-25k-usd-as-a-loseback-in-total1-so-its-6-loseback-5364266)
Richardo30 aka Screwing1000 aka multiple other bitcointalk accounts , aswell as duckdice accounts: (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/duckdiceio-5381469)
Last week a mod from Duckdice.io reached out to me to offer $100 in exchange for looking into and commenting publicly on some accusations that were made the site. They were very explicit that they only wanted honest feedback and I'm convinced they aren't just looking for someone to shill for them. I agreed, they paid me $100 in btc yesterday and today I received what you see below.
For the record: I know very little about Duckdice.io . Never played there, never made an account, and (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure I've never even posted in any thread related to them. All I really knew about them is that they're a dice site that's been around for a while, they have (had?) a signature campaign with orange signatures, and there were a couple scam accusations against them. Before the last couple days I didn't know any of the details surrounding any of these accusations.
Since they already paid me, they owe me nothing, and all I owe them is my opinion on the accusations below, (which I'll get to one by one in the thread) so I hope the perception of any conflict of interest is minimal.
Without further adieu...
Local Rules:
- All responsibility for any decision to remove or not remove a post falls on me (TwitchySeal), not Duckdice.
- No signature spam. If your post smells like sig spam I'll delete it.
- No derailing. The topic is duckdice.io issues.
- If I ask you not to post in the thread anymore, then don't.
- If you have a 1xbit advertisement in your signature don't post in this thread.
For the record: I know very little about Duckdice.io . Never played there, never made an account, and (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure I've never even posted in any thread related to them. All I really knew about them is that they're a dice site that's been around for a while, they have (had?) a signature campaign with orange signatures, and there were a couple scam accusations against them. Before the last couple days I didn't know any of the details surrounding any of these accusations.
Since they already paid me, they owe me nothing, and all I owe them is my opinion on the accusations below, (which I'll get to one by one in the thread) so I hope the perception of any conflict of interest is minimal.
Without further adieu...
Quote from: Duckdice
Why this thread?
DuckDice has been around since November 2016 —- since then we have grown into what we would consider an excellent dice site with some of the most advanced features, deposit and withdrawal options and UI on the market. We have a very loyal following and a very solid regular community.
What our problem has been for some time is what we would consider a perception issue of our services on forums such as bitcointalk and other websites such as Trustpilot; whilst on the one hand, we deliver excellent customer service and attention to detail on all issues, we initially made some grave communication errors and handled situations, frankly, poorly, although where it was right to do so, have always corrected, reimbursed and resolved any issue where appropriate.
We would like to use this opportunity, with help of legendary members, to put everything on the table and discuss issues that might be of concern to the bitcoin talk community and allow this thread to be a focal point for us to learn and improve from.
We will take this opportunity, with help of our live support members bobstone, and kirito89 to comment on anything you might want answers for as well as layout some of our more notable accusations and how each situation was dealt with.
Legendary member help
To be upfront we have made the payment to two legendary members for use of self-moderated threads (of which only the legendary member posting will have influence) to ensure constructive and clear feedback.
We just want to increase awareness of the service we are very proud of in the best manner possible using the tools available to us, we will ask negative comments not to be removed unless they are intentionally false or malicious.
What we are paying for is the time and attention to posts, not to take our side but ensure that vital questions are asked of us and of any criticisms or allegations posted and ensuring a fair and neutral platform for us to engage on.
Accusations
So we’ll take our very first major issue, it was early on in the site and was involving our deposit bonus at the time. We have an in-depth explanation here: https://help.duckdice.io/hc/en-us/articles/360007748833-DuckDice-scam-bonus-accusation
The original accusation on the forum:
The original poster of the above was credited a refund, the deposit bonus was removed and re-worked before re-release much later on with lessons we had learnt.
The basic summary of what happened is the user in question used one of our deposit bonus offers, played through and was up with some considerable profit, however, decided they did not want to continue with the bonus and cancelled it (there were warnings this would mean losing both the initial commitment and profit) that were missed by the user.
His scam accusation was that this was unfair and we should refund the balance (which we did) however our initial response was not fantastic and actually a bit standoffish. We have apologised and recognised this is not the way to handle complaints and was extremely early in the experiences of DuckDice and its team.
This was perhaps our biggest mistake and where most of our reputation damage has come from. However, we have had most negative trust ratings removed and placed as neutral from this time because we have clearly demonstrated that we have resolved it fairly.
Mishandling a multi-account situation in private messaging:
While this was poorly managed by us on a communication level — the user was linked to several other accounts that were trying to promote child pornography; which of course on so many levels we absolutely do not tolerate.
However, our approach towards the user in question was (and not on the same scale) also intolerable; because although we had evidence that they were possibly the same person, there is absolutely no way we should make such accusations without it being absolutely definitive they were the same person.
We have addressed this with training and guidance with the member involved.
Scam accusations involving pending reviews:
While this user’s withdrawal went under review, he has received his withdrawal after a few hours. Basically, our system sometimes flags transactions and automatically sends them for review by a finance admin, this happens very occasionally.
There are a few reasons why a withdrawal might go under review, some for a security or compliance matter, some are to ensure there is no bonus abuses happening.
The vast majority of reviews taken are then approved and sent to the user, in rarer circumstances further information or KYC is required.
The 3.11btc rain per user bug:
Basically, we had an issue with our system which meant our rain bot rained an extraordinary 3.11 btc to 10 users. This user felt it was unfair that we blocked the attempt to withdraw it, and then subsequently returned the balance to duckdice.
Pretty much all financial institutions and companies will reserve the right to claim back money that is given due to an error and these weren’t small sums. Some users actually returned their balance realising it was a bug without question and were given bonuses for doing so.
We also had a problem that many people tried to avoid detection by further raining and tipping segments of balances in the hope they could circumvent our auto-detection systems that were triggered by such large amounts being rained.
However, we have now come to peace with this user who we will invite onto the thread for comment.
Nomercy lossback:
I will try to keep this short, but basically, before we introduced the daily, weekly, monthly Rakeback bonuses, we were offering a loss back of up to 10 % for our players, which meant anywhere from 1 % to 10 %, the highest tier 10 % was given to our regular players, regular depositing players etc.
This certain player, Nomercy, a high roller, was playing for about 2-3 weeks, he won a pretty big amount then proceeded in losing it he got approximate of 6 % of his total losses back, and then, about 6 months later he came back asking for more ( prices already exploded so I’m assuming that’s the reason he did it ) ,
Regardless, this user was actually compensated at the time, he was happy with it. But come back after a few months, demanding more, and threatening with bitcointalk accusations.
There was also some suspicion the original owner was not the one contacting, and the ask was very very large, a further few % of losses at a much much higher crypto price. It seems likely we would have obliged a smaller ask for such a player even after already crediting nearly a bitcoin in bonuses but the demand we felt was very unreasonable.
Richardo30 aka Screwing1000 aka multiple other bitcointalk accounts , aswell as duckdice accounts:
This user recently you may have noticed wrote a lot of accusations on our main thread as well as individual threads, as well as our trust pilot score being much lower than it is now. Most of this has been removed by the user.
It ultimately stemmed from him seeking loss back (a mechanism we no longer offered) and the short term disruption he was creating to our reputation was very impactful, we, unfortunately, did end up paying him a relatively small sum (7% of his losses on the site) and he has since deleted most of his posts and trust ratings (made via various accounts).
We as a team are not very happy with this decision we took, but in this one instance, bowed to pressure, which is why it's so important we write this thread and why we're being open about it now — there is a more comprehensive answer posted on our main BTT thread, here; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1676313.3360
The good stuff!
So what does DuckDice actually offer players?
We offer near on 24/7 live support with a very quick turnaround on the completion of rectifying issues. This has improved year on year and now we offer some of the most robust support of any casino.
We’ve paid out literally hundreds of thousands in bonuses, both in opportunity and actual withdraws from our faucet program, Rakeback, rains etc. There is a lot of bang for the buck for players, especially for the average gambler.
We also offer one of the best, lively, communities for actually having discussions, chilling out with your gambling, with a solid emphasis on chat quality, sometimes it’s serious, sometimes it’s a laugh but it’s always real.
We really do respond to feedback, constantly updating and improving the game, our reward structures, our policy towards people based on community feedback, and we won't stop. It really is one of the most fully fleshed-out feature-rich dice games available with a UI that works extremely well across tablet, mobile, pc, laptop and operating systems.
And, we’ve been running for half a decade —- in this space, that’s no small feat, and we plan to go on for a decade more; we have an extremely dedicated team who really care about the site and the user’s experience of it and we are very proud; sometimes too proud, of our work, which has been shown from time to time in our responses too unfair, or even outright false allegations.
Summary
If you spent time reading all of this, I genuinely thank you; I also thank you for any questions you may give us, I really hope this community sees what we are trying to do, and give us a fair shake, we will continue to grow and offer people a great experience, but it would be even better if we could do so with the bitcointalk community and wider giving us the appropriate criticism, and actual-time too understand that past mistakes are past and people with vendettas will always poison the water. For the future, we always have been listening, and caring about our reputation but it’s often a very hard mountain to climb, especially in this business.
We thank you too, our loyal customer base who’ve been with us all this time and are very grateful for the support over the years that allow us to offer such a great game.
DuckDice has been around since November 2016 —- since then we have grown into what we would consider an excellent dice site with some of the most advanced features, deposit and withdrawal options and UI on the market. We have a very loyal following and a very solid regular community.
What our problem has been for some time is what we would consider a perception issue of our services on forums such as bitcointalk and other websites such as Trustpilot; whilst on the one hand, we deliver excellent customer service and attention to detail on all issues, we initially made some grave communication errors and handled situations, frankly, poorly, although where it was right to do so, have always corrected, reimbursed and resolved any issue where appropriate.
We would like to use this opportunity, with help of legendary members, to put everything on the table and discuss issues that might be of concern to the bitcoin talk community and allow this thread to be a focal point for us to learn and improve from.
We will take this opportunity, with help of our live support members bobstone, and kirito89 to comment on anything you might want answers for as well as layout some of our more notable accusations and how each situation was dealt with.
Legendary member help
To be upfront we have made the payment to two legendary members for use of self-moderated threads (of which only the legendary member posting will have influence) to ensure constructive and clear feedback.
We just want to increase awareness of the service we are very proud of in the best manner possible using the tools available to us, we will ask negative comments not to be removed unless they are intentionally false or malicious.
What we are paying for is the time and attention to posts, not to take our side but ensure that vital questions are asked of us and of any criticisms or allegations posted and ensuring a fair and neutral platform for us to engage on.
Accusations
So we’ll take our very first major issue, it was early on in the site and was involving our deposit bonus at the time. We have an in-depth explanation here: https://help.duckdice.io/hc/en-us/articles/360007748833-DuckDice-scam-bonus-accusation
The original accusation on the forum:
The original poster of the above was credited a refund, the deposit bonus was removed and re-worked before re-release much later on with lessons we had learnt.
The basic summary of what happened is the user in question used one of our deposit bonus offers, played through and was up with some considerable profit, however, decided they did not want to continue with the bonus and cancelled it (there were warnings this would mean losing both the initial commitment and profit) that were missed by the user.
His scam accusation was that this was unfair and we should refund the balance (which we did) however our initial response was not fantastic and actually a bit standoffish. We have apologised and recognised this is not the way to handle complaints and was extremely early in the experiences of DuckDice and its team.
This was perhaps our biggest mistake and where most of our reputation damage has come from. However, we have had most negative trust ratings removed and placed as neutral from this time because we have clearly demonstrated that we have resolved it fairly.
Mishandling a multi-account situation in private messaging:
While this was poorly managed by us on a communication level — the user was linked to several other accounts that were trying to promote child pornography; which of course on so many levels we absolutely do not tolerate.
However, our approach towards the user in question was (and not on the same scale) also intolerable; because although we had evidence that they were possibly the same person, there is absolutely no way we should make such accusations without it being absolutely definitive they were the same person.
We have addressed this with training and guidance with the member involved.
Scam accusations involving pending reviews:
While this user’s withdrawal went under review, he has received his withdrawal after a few hours. Basically, our system sometimes flags transactions and automatically sends them for review by a finance admin, this happens very occasionally.
There are a few reasons why a withdrawal might go under review, some for a security or compliance matter, some are to ensure there is no bonus abuses happening.
The vast majority of reviews taken are then approved and sent to the user, in rarer circumstances further information or KYC is required.
The 3.11btc rain per user bug:
Basically, we had an issue with our system which meant our rain bot rained an extraordinary 3.11 btc to 10 users. This user felt it was unfair that we blocked the attempt to withdraw it, and then subsequently returned the balance to duckdice.
Pretty much all financial institutions and companies will reserve the right to claim back money that is given due to an error and these weren’t small sums. Some users actually returned their balance realising it was a bug without question and were given bonuses for doing so.
We also had a problem that many people tried to avoid detection by further raining and tipping segments of balances in the hope they could circumvent our auto-detection systems that were triggered by such large amounts being rained.
However, we have now come to peace with this user who we will invite onto the thread for comment.
Nomercy lossback:
I will try to keep this short, but basically, before we introduced the daily, weekly, monthly Rakeback bonuses, we were offering a loss back of up to 10 % for our players, which meant anywhere from 1 % to 10 %, the highest tier 10 % was given to our regular players, regular depositing players etc.
This certain player, Nomercy, a high roller, was playing for about 2-3 weeks, he won a pretty big amount then proceeded in losing it he got approximate of 6 % of his total losses back, and then, about 6 months later he came back asking for more ( prices already exploded so I’m assuming that’s the reason he did it ) ,
Regardless, this user was actually compensated at the time, he was happy with it. But come back after a few months, demanding more, and threatening with bitcointalk accusations.
There was also some suspicion the original owner was not the one contacting, and the ask was very very large, a further few % of losses at a much much higher crypto price. It seems likely we would have obliged a smaller ask for such a player even after already crediting nearly a bitcoin in bonuses but the demand we felt was very unreasonable.
Richardo30 aka Screwing1000 aka multiple other bitcointalk accounts , aswell as duckdice accounts:
This user recently you may have noticed wrote a lot of accusations on our main thread as well as individual threads, as well as our trust pilot score being much lower than it is now. Most of this has been removed by the user.
It ultimately stemmed from him seeking loss back (a mechanism we no longer offered) and the short term disruption he was creating to our reputation was very impactful, we, unfortunately, did end up paying him a relatively small sum (7% of his losses on the site) and he has since deleted most of his posts and trust ratings (made via various accounts).
We as a team are not very happy with this decision we took, but in this one instance, bowed to pressure, which is why it's so important we write this thread and why we're being open about it now — there is a more comprehensive answer posted on our main BTT thread, here; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1676313.3360
The good stuff!
So what does DuckDice actually offer players?
We offer near on 24/7 live support with a very quick turnaround on the completion of rectifying issues. This has improved year on year and now we offer some of the most robust support of any casino.
We’ve paid out literally hundreds of thousands in bonuses, both in opportunity and actual withdraws from our faucet program, Rakeback, rains etc. There is a lot of bang for the buck for players, especially for the average gambler.
We also offer one of the best, lively, communities for actually having discussions, chilling out with your gambling, with a solid emphasis on chat quality, sometimes it’s serious, sometimes it’s a laugh but it’s always real.
We really do respond to feedback, constantly updating and improving the game, our reward structures, our policy towards people based on community feedback, and we won't stop. It really is one of the most fully fleshed-out feature-rich dice games available with a UI that works extremely well across tablet, mobile, pc, laptop and operating systems.
And, we’ve been running for half a decade —- in this space, that’s no small feat, and we plan to go on for a decade more; we have an extremely dedicated team who really care about the site and the user’s experience of it and we are very proud; sometimes too proud, of our work, which has been shown from time to time in our responses too unfair, or even outright false allegations.
Summary
If you spent time reading all of this, I genuinely thank you; I also thank you for any questions you may give us, I really hope this community sees what we are trying to do, and give us a fair shake, we will continue to grow and offer people a great experience, but it would be even better if we could do so with the bitcointalk community and wider giving us the appropriate criticism, and actual-time too understand that past mistakes are past and people with vendettas will always poison the water. For the future, we always have been listening, and caring about our reputation but it’s often a very hard mountain to climb, especially in this business.
We thank you too, our loyal customer base who’ve been with us all this time and are very grateful for the support over the years that allow us to offer such a great game.
Local Rules:
- All responsibility for any decision to remove or not remove a post falls on me (TwitchySeal), not Duckdice.
- No signature spam. If your post smells like sig spam I'll delete it.
- No derailing. The topic is duckdice.io issues.
- If I ask you not to post in the thread anymore, then don't.
- If you have a 1xbit advertisement in your signature don't post in this thread.
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