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Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 143. (Read 1058949 times)

hero member
Activity: 1203
Merit: 508
Manager of looking busy #citizencosmos
September 03, 2014, 08:17:50 AM
Ok, I've got a draft ready for the proposal. Posted it on devtome because it's fairly long:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_division_proposal

Summary and general discussion thread here: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1087.msg34924.html#msg34924

If you can't access coinzen for whatever reason, feel free to post here.

good work! bottom line in your work is :

Ultimately, I believe we have lost a lot of investor

I think we should post here, not on other forums. Ill explain why. Posting and developing a devcoin forum is great but you have to show the crypto community that this coin is alive and kicking. This coin has to be interesting for people to invest for. The community has to be more lively. In times where you have bitcoin 2.0 and things like bitshares - there is a max of 2 posts per day here... need to live it up
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
September 02, 2014, 11:57:24 PM
Ok, I've got a draft ready for the proposal. Posted it on devtome because it's fairly long:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_division_proposal

Summary and general discussion thread here: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1087.msg34924.html#msg34924

If you can't access coinzen for whatever reason, feel free to post here.
RJF
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Online since '89...
September 01, 2014, 10:29:53 AM
I have posted this in a couple formums struggling with featurs, changes, etc. Perhaps you will agree, perhaps you will not but, something to think about...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the subject of features and such, I really think there are only two things we should be concentrating on:

1. Acceptance
2. Usage

Lets be real, if you and I agree that the dog pooh on the bottom of my shoe is worth $1000.00 USD than, it IS worth $1000.00 to you, and I. I can then "spend" that dog pooh with you and buy whatever you are selling up to the agreed upon figure.

Period.

That's what it is all about, not anon, not messaging, not all the other crap being added to coins with the one exception of interest (staking) since that makes my dog pooh worth more to those who accept it as payment.

Acceptance is the first hurdle, and the hardest to jump over. After that, after convincing the public they can buy things with crypto-currency, then you need to convince them xxxxxxxx is the best one to use which equals Usage.

Acceptance then, usage, period. The public doesn't care nor do they even know why they would want additional "features" You can't make a phone call with a dollar or Euro but, you can spend it to do so. These currencies have survived for years in their current, vastly imperfect form. Think about it, money needs to be spendable. A large group of people need to believe that their money has value.

That's all it takes, let's work on that....

BTW: After 1 & 2 have been achieved, then, and only then, should features be added. I believe the thinking is backward right now using features to be noticed only works on "cryptoheads" not John Q Public who has no idea why he needs his money to do anything but perhaps grow...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We don't really have re-invent the wheel, just make more people want to use it for it's intended purpose....


EDIT: Please understand, "cryptoheads" is used as a term of endearment, since I am one, not a slur...  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1203
Merit: 508
Manager of looking busy #citizencosmos
So, when is the revival? Kidding ))) When are we hitting 100 satoshis again?
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
sounds great! a quiet supporter!
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
The price is constantly dropping. 350k USD as market cap? Three years of work equivalent to 680 Bitcoin?
Unless you make something serious to get DVC known, involving the public, you will continually assist to a deadly decline.
What is more sad, I really believed something good could have been achieved through this project.
But you have failed in getting no-profit organisations involved, using them as traction to the project itself.

You are so busy in rewarding writers, when much more could have been accomplished. Imagine to support any kind of art and humanitarian project, asking receivers to expose the dvc logo. They would be the first to promote the use of dvc, since it would mean more support and value to their coins.

Can you imagine someone receiving devcoin for painting, assisting elderly ones, helping youths in developing countries, etc.? Writing is just a minor aspect.

"Devcoin is an ethically inspired cryptocurrency"

Ethical: 'fair, and just dealing with people...'

DVC will be ethical when it will really strive to give to anybody the same opportunity to be supported in their art, in developing a social project, in expressing their creativity.
Since DVC has limited itself mainly to programmers and writers, that't why it's sinking.

I've just taken the reigns from UTB, and I assure you I'm working to address many of these issues.

A distinction has to be made, though, that devcoins are not a charity, but rather a vessel for encouraging works to be released for the general public good.

Initially devcoins were centered around open source software only - that's where the 'dev' comes from, short for developers. It was eventually realized, however, that the spirit of creative commons licensing was almost identical to the spirit of open source software. eg: "A Creative Commons (CC) license is one of several public copyright licenses that enable the free distribution of an otherwise copyrighted work. A CC license is used when an author wants to give people the right to share, use, and build upon a work that they have created."

If people were willing to give others the right to share, use and build upon their writing, art, music the same way that open source developers do, then it is reasonable to include those under our umbrella. This is different to one-to-one charity work, because of the scale. OS/CC helps everyone on Earth equally, whether they make use of it or not, and that will remain the focus of devcoins (seriously, it's huge as it is). So far we've got a basic system of OS development support, and now have writing support. Aural and Visual support will be implemented over the coming year or two.

Ultimately, devcoins, just like bitcoins, only have a value the free market attribute to it. They're both just secure distributed ledgers at heart, with different generation algorithms. Anyone can completely ignore the dvc/btc price and simply code/write for the public good, and get devcoins for it, and they could be worthless. Some people actually do that, and don't care about the price. The free market decides the price for that free to share and reuse work, and even at the current price, it has decided that it's not worthless. While there are tricks we can perform to increase the attractiveness of the coin to speculators, they're all counter-productive to our actual mission: proliferating open source development and arts under creative commons licensing. It's not a problem with writers earning too much, because if devtome had never existed, there would have just been more OS software being released through bounties and that would still have driven the price down. It's a transaction coin, not a value storage coin. The transaction is between people doing work (earning shares), and the general public who like what they do for the greater good, and pay them for it by buying dvc. Understand this, and you'll understand the devcoin price; any big price rise/fall are part of a pump/dump that the administrators have no control over, although the benefit it brings is that we have a greater output of work during that time. There is still potential for massive wide-scale adoption of devcoins as a transaction coin, but even if that was the case, it absolutely won't guarantee a higher price, only more transactions (and likely more people getting paid for os/cc work with a cryptocurrency).

My work over the next few months is rebalancing the OS/CC output, so it's not just 100% writing and nothing else. The actual value writers, developers, and artists place on the devcoins they receive are entirely up to them. The administration can only provide the rules for earning devcoins, not the rules for when people should or shouldn't buy devcoins with btc on the free market. That is completely out of our control. Granted, with more eyes on the project the more likely investment will come, but that will always simply increase production output rather than increase the price over time. The project will always provide the cheapest way of adding content to the OS/CC cloud of work out there, and that's our huge value to the world. The only people who should be buying devcoins long term, are those who wish to see more open source code and creative commons art released. Speculation on the price is still possible, and even welcome, but people have to understand devcoins are fundamentally different to bitcoins in this way. It's not a value due to scarcity coin, but a create more os and cc coin. Any money you put in, will be converted into open source or creative commons work.

It's brutal watching the trials and tribulations of DVC and the continual wheel spin associated with the project.


When taking a look at the one year performance...

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=1-year&resolution=day&pair=dvc-btc&market=vircurex

... it's been difficult to see if initiatives are actually valiant attempts to raise the currency from its tending towards zero trajectory or whether those actions were artful maneuvers cleverly concealing pump and dump activities.

It will trend towards zero but will never hit it; the production of os/cc work (shares) is self-managed by the earners themselves. Less work gets done the lower the price is, and there are always people who do it just because they love it (and don't need the money).

Pump and dump schemes are largely out of our control. When the price goes up, the number of earners we get increases and drives it down.

There's a distortion in that chart, by the way, that you need to consider. BTC has gone up 5-10 fold during that time period too. You should be looking at a dvc/usd chart:

http://dvcusdchart.blisteringdevelopers.com/daily

If 1 btc was worth $120 today, which is what it was a year ago, 1 dvc would be worth about 40 satoshis right now, so only 10% down over the year.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Are you like these guys?
It's brutal watching the trials and tribulations of DVC and the continual wheel spin associated with the project.


When taking a look at the one year performance...

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=1-year&resolution=day&pair=dvc-btc&market=vircurex

... it's been difficult to see if initiatives are actually valiant attempts to raise the currency from its tending towards zero trajectory or whether those actions were artful maneuvers cleverly concealing pump and dump activities.


Best of luck to everyone involved in the project.





 Smiley



member
Activity: 218
Merit: 10
I'm definitely with Nova on realizing a greater ad revenue by forking PG and R Devtome material.  I think this will go a very long way in Devtome becoming self-supporting and eventual a strong revenue stream for DVC.

Papa
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 104
Hey sidhujag, has devcoinauctions.com stopped?

No auctions, no login (and what about my credits...  Huh  Roll Eyes )...  Grin

No not stopped planning on doing some seo with more auctions and a proper launch with an ann thread.

You cant log in?

We had a baby a few months ago thats why been really busy but I am planning on going forward. Develcuy expressed interest in doing seo for it... your bids are all still there dont worry!

Ok, I was just wondering.

On a side note, DVC kept dropping in price lately....


Lately?

The price is constantly dropping. 350k USD as market cap? Three years of work equivalent to 680 Bitcoin?
Unless you make something serious to get DVC known, involving the public, you will continually assist to a deadly decline.
What is more sad, I really believed something good could have been achieved through this project.
But you have failed in getting no-profit organisations involved, using them as traction to the project itself.

You are so busy in rewarding writers, when much more could have been accomplished. Imagine to support any kind of art and humanitarian project, asking receivers to expose the dvc logo. They would be the first to promote the use of dvc, since it would mean more support and value to their coins.

Can you imagine someone receiving devcoin for painting, assisting elderly ones, helping youths in developing countries, etc.? Writing is just a minor aspect.

"Devcoin is an ethically inspired cryptocurrency"

Ethical: 'fair, and just dealing with people...'

DVC will be ethical when it will really strive to give to anybody the same opportunity to be supported in their art, in developing a social project, in expressing their creativity.
Since DVC has limited itself mainly to programmers and writers, that't why it's sinking.


DevTome is a wealth of ad revenue yet to be fully realized. Once it is that revenue stream will bolster upward market pressure.

Devcoin is about supporting open source programming. To see that as a disability is not to understand it's mandate.

- Nova

First it has to support itself let alone put upward pressure on price. We only do 0.04btc a month while writers expect alot more based on market price.. once it supports itself then we can profit off of it.

I want to get back to the auction site but things like this which dont cost too much but offer a return potentially are the way to go fwd imo.. once people catch on it will be a frenzy but right now there is no interest because of the structure of the rewards system... no incentive to hold or even build as of yet.

If there could be a forking of PG rated content and R rated content so as to attract AdSense then we would be see a huge difference in ad revenue than at present. This has been discussed on the forum already.

Of course any DVC POS is a help. That does not discredit the true potential that DevTome has to offer.

- Nova
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
Hey sidhujag, has devcoinauctions.com stopped?

No auctions, no login (and what about my credits...  Huh  Roll Eyes )...  Grin

No not stopped planning on doing some seo with more auctions and a proper launch with an ann thread.

You cant log in?

We had a baby a few months ago thats why been really busy but I am planning on going forward. Develcuy expressed interest in doing seo for it... your bids are all still there dont worry!

Ok, I was just wondering.

On a side note, DVC kept dropping in price lately....


Lately?

The price is constantly dropping. 350k USD as market cap? Three years of work equivalent to 680 Bitcoin?
Unless you make something serious to get DVC known, involving the public, you will continually assist to a deadly decline.
What is more sad, I really believed something good could have been achieved through this project.
But you have failed in getting no-profit organisations involved, using them as traction to the project itself.

You are so busy in rewarding writers, when much more could have been accomplished. Imagine to support any kind of art and humanitarian project, asking receivers to expose the dvc logo. They would be the first to promote the use of dvc, since it would mean more support and value to their coins.

Can you imagine someone receiving devcoin for painting, assisting elderly ones, helping youths in developing countries, etc.? Writing is just a minor aspect.

"Devcoin is an ethically inspired cryptocurrency"

Ethical: 'fair, and just dealing with people...'

DVC will be ethical when it will really strive to give to anybody the same opportunity to be supported in their art, in developing a social project, in expressing their creativity.
Since DVC has limited itself mainly to programmers and writers, that't why it's sinking.


DevTome is a wealth of ad revenue yet to be fully realized. Once it is that revenue stream will bolster upward market pressure.

Devcoin is about supporting open source programming. To see that as a disability is not to understand it's mandate.

- Nova

First it has to support itself let alone put upward pressure on price. We only do 0.04btc a month while writers expect alot more based on market price.. once it supports itself then we can profit off of it.

I want to get back to the auction site but things like this which dont cost too much but offer a return potentially are the way to go fwd imo.. once people catch on it will be a frenzy but right now there is no interest because of the structure of the rewards system... no incentive to hold or even build as of yet.
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 104
Hey sidhujag, has devcoinauctions.com stopped?

No auctions, no login (and what about my credits...  Huh  Roll Eyes )...  Grin

No not stopped planning on doing some seo with more auctions and a proper launch with an ann thread.

You cant log in?

We had a baby a few months ago thats why been really busy but I am planning on going forward. Develcuy expressed interest in doing seo for it... your bids are all still there dont worry!

Ok, I was just wondering.

On a side note, DVC kept dropping in price lately....


Lately?

The price is constantly dropping. 350k USD as market cap? Three years of work equivalent to 680 Bitcoin?
Unless you make something serious to get DVC known, involving the public, you will continually assist to a deadly decline.
What is more sad, I really believed something good could have been achieved through this project.
But you have failed in getting no-profit organisations involved, using them as traction to the project itself.

You are so busy in rewarding writers, when much more could have been accomplished. Imagine to support any kind of art and humanitarian project, asking receivers to expose the dvc logo. They would be the first to promote the use of dvc, since it would mean more support and value to their coins.

Can you imagine someone receiving devcoin for painting, assisting elderly ones, helping youths in developing countries, etc.? Writing is just a minor aspect.

"Devcoin is an ethically inspired cryptocurrency"

Ethical: 'fair, and just dealing with people...'

DVC will be ethical when it will really strive to give to anybody the same opportunity to be supported in their art, in developing a social project, in expressing their creativity.
Since DVC has limited itself mainly to programmers and writers, that't why it's sinking.


DevTome is a wealth of ad revenue yet to be fully realized. Once it is that revenue stream will bolster upward market pressure.

Devcoin is about supporting open source programming. To see that as a disability is not to understand it's mandate.

- Nova
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1008
/dev/null
What exactly did Kumala do, besides the VirCurEx fiasco?
VCX + C::S combination fiasco Tongue

Created VCX (vircurex) on cryptostocks, then he broke the contract and stopped paying dividends.
Fractional Reserve @ VCX
Stole/Froze funds of VCX users.
Unfairly distributed the rest of the coins (top down 50% and down top 50%), so that the rich stay rich, the poor will still have their tiny poorness and all others loose everything. Hoping to result in less user being mad/affected...

Not even to talk about no support for VCX nor cryptostocks, their mail servers are borked for months and they still give a fuck.

Some references, you can find more Wink

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6197035
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2383179


EDIT: eek, this is my 2k's post.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1005
What exactly did Kumala do, besides the VirCurEx fiasco?
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1008
/dev/null
A better solution would be to encourage devcoin earners/holders/buyers to invest in businesses listed in dvc on something like crypto-stocks.

This would be good, I'd love to see more DVC listing on Cryptostocks.
Cryptostocks is kinda dead due to the several scams pulled by Kumala.

True, but its the only place for DVC listings. It would be even better if there was somewhere else.
The problem is simple; why should/would someone invest with a platform of a known scammer?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
A better solution would be to encourage devcoin earners/holders/buyers to invest in businesses listed in dvc on something like crypto-stocks.

This would be good, I'd love to see more DVC listing on Cryptostocks.
Cryptostocks is kinda dead due to the several scams pulled by Kumala.

True, but its the only place for DVC listings. It would be even better if there was somewhere else.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1008
/dev/null
A better solution would be to encourage devcoin earners/holders/buyers to invest in businesses listed in dvc on something like crypto-stocks.

This would be good, I'd love to see more DVC listing on Cryptostocks.
Cryptostocks is kinda dead due to the several scams pulled by Kumala.
member
Activity: 218
Merit: 10
A better solution would be to encourage devcoin earners/holders/buyers to invest in businesses listed in dvc on something like crypto-stocks.

This would be good, I'd love to see more DVC listing on Cryptostocks.

As would I.

The other steps Hunterbunter touched upon definitely are steps in the right direction.

Papa
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
A better solution would be to encourage devcoin earners/holders/buyers to invest in businesses listed in dvc on something like crypto-stocks.

This would be good, I'd love to see more DVC listing on Cryptostocks.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
You definitely make some good points here about this being a transaction coin rather than a store of value, and also about increasing the number of people earning coins which would also improve distribution and give the illusion of scarcity (because each person individually has less and so values each coin more). But how do you convince people to want to earn them if there's not much to do with them and the value is low and falling? Also, like you say, there isn't much incentive for businesses to accept them for transactions and this won't change unless there is an incentive for people to buy DVC rather than earn them, because any business is going to want to sell the coins they get so they would need buyers for those coins. And people who are already earning them from generation are probably not going to want to do more work for other devcoiners in return for DVC because they will already have coins that they can't do anything with but either hold as a speculation on value or sell, so the alternative economy route will be difficult to try to build.

That's right, it's well established that higher bitcoin prices lead to higher mining difficulty, just as higher dvc prices lead to more shares being created per round (higher share difficulty). The other way isn't so clear, but if a high mining difficulty does in fact lead to higher bitcoin prices, then it should translate to shares, too. Each person who earns a share has a $/share in mind when they do that work, and once the round has ended and they know how many dvc's they're getting, they can hold on to those coins to get the $/share value they want or sell immediately if it's higher. This is what's been happening all this time, as far as I can tell from watching the dvc market dynamics.

We don't really have to convince people to work for the coins, if the market price shows them that they will earn the equivalent of a $xx/time that suits them, people will work. The difficulty as you point out is sustaining that pay and growing it. The reality is that we don't *have* to do anything, the free market is already doing this right now, but we can make it more efficient and balanced. I thought people would stop producing shares completely after the last speculative burst in price, but that's not what happened, the share difficulty (how many shares are produced a round) has hit a higher low than the last lull in price, so people have been attracted and they have stuck. Speculators do play an important role in getting those people, but it's hard to know just how much is due to them alone, or other factors like awareness and true investors.

The b2b aspect will have to be addressed at some point, but before that we need more coders interested in dvcs. Ideally we would create the open source platform for which businesses could transact in devcoin, with each other, extending the time before being changed to btc/fiat as long as possible, and that's something we'll look at later.

Setting up new businesses to create incentive for people to buy dvc is a futile endeavor, or at least a very difficult task. It requires the business to exclusively only accept dvc (why would they?), the person buying dvc to literally choose this business over another one that doesn't have the dvc requirement (why would they?). After the transaction is complete, what is the business going to store their profit in? if it's not dvc, then what's the point in even transacting in dvc? A better solution would be to encourage devcoin earners/holders/buyers to invest in businesses listed in dvc on something like crypto-stocks. We could also encourage businesses that service the people who are earning them round by round (they would still need btc support, though). It's a small niche economy, but a real working one is a ton more valuable than a fictional world-wide one, and as volume increases, we won't have to convince anyone to accept dvcs, they will want to of their own accord.

The really hard part is investor confidence. The philanthropists out there who realize what we're doing is for the good of all, and we need support. If these people believe in what we're doing, and that we're going about it the right way, then they will provide btc support. I'm sure of it. In a way, owning dvcs is like owning a non-dividend share in a company. You can't really do much with shares at all, but you are still supporting that company just by owning them. From another perspective, you're also owning a piece of the intrinsic value of that model of doing things. Just like when you own some USD, you're explicitly stating that you like the way the US is doing things, instead of say, Zimbabwe dollars. This is where I got the "stick to our mission". Corruption is rife in the crypto-world; we will do far better by maintaining integrity, and we can only do that by doing what we say we will and actually focus on producing open source /cc stuff. An economy that rises out of it is secondary to that mission, but it's something that a lot of people want, it does add value, and we can even use our own resources to create the bricks that will build it (os software driven solutions). This is the only legitimate way we can sustainably increase the amount of btc support for the work that we're doing, because it is valuable, and multiplying.


You say you have a workable solution - what is that solution?

I have to check that bits of it can be implemented in the receiver associated code before I can fully call it workable, but the logic is sound.

The proposal revolves around disconnecting each discipline (os, writing, visual, aural) to allow their share values ($/share) to float freely, and find their own market acceptable rates. At the moment a coder has to work for the $/share writers set, and little coding is getting done. In the future the other disciplines may have the same problem, so we need a self-balancing system, which will come about through normalization.

The second part is a community fund with various functions, which will be fed by generation shares. This will give us some flexibility that generation shares don't allow, such as startup incubation, market support (anti-volatility action), community ownership, etc.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
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