Topic: E-bay ,paypal - page 2. (Read 4552 times)

Yeah, FYI this is not what I was advocating. Guess my business model is secure after all, since I spelled it out and it's still a mystery.

I think they know of BTC, considering the CEO of PayPal has talked about it in interviews, but their company policy needs to change in order for them to be a good place to exchange BTC.  Until their policy changes, any disputes will be decided based upon their existing policy, which states digital delivery goods are not allowed.  They claim to have no way to verify delivery, but of course they could easily with Bitcoins.  Each party posts the address they are sending from/receiving the BTC, and then verify the BTC went where it should go.  No other proof necessary.  They said sales of software,mp3's, etc were impossible to verify, so they made the policy to outlaw all digital delivery goods.

This backs up what I was told .
They do not understand that the blockchain exists let alone know how to use it ,if we can educate them ,maybe there is some hope ,the more that contact them with this info the more chance there is .
Unless like lots believe there is a conspiracy against Bitcoin .
I find people fear what they do not understand ,ebay are no different .
If they understand that their paypal could incorporate bitcoin wallets into their format then maybe we could make progress.

Companies, smaller/bigger start to understand that accepting bitcoin payments is like a free viral marketing for them.

I purchased paper wallets that were advertised to have 1 BTC each, but they had 0 each.  The person reviewing the case apparently ignored the blockchain information showing absolute proof that the wallets had 0 balance.  Don't expect the eBay dispute reviewer to use the blockchain info, or even basic logic when deciding on the case.  I am not using eBay & DEFINITELY not PayPal for BTC transactions.

Is selling Paper Wallets fine then? What I don't get about the proof of delivery is anybody could ship you a letter or a xbox box full of bricks with a tracking number, but all that proves is they sent something not what's in the box. At least with the blockchain there is proof of exactly what was sent and received.

They will not officially accept blockchain info as proof even if you put it in the terms .
You have already broken their terms by providing a service .
Their exact words to me were that "e-bay is for the sale of physical items only "
What I'am asking is for thecommunity to contact them to make Blockchain info their official proof ,we can put what we want in our terms but it needs to be officially recognised by e-bay or your flying by the seat of your pants if a dispute arises .

Yes that's why you offer only contracted services. You can prove you did that, easily: Contract states I will facilitate delivery of X BTC to address xxxxx and that verification via [address at blockchain.info] is considered proof of completion of services; and that further, the address stated is brand-new and generated by the customer, and the customer certifies that they and no one else has access to the key. That sort of thing. They can charge back all they want but it will never fly.

I'am not going to convince anyone ,the community needs to do that .

I like all the euphemisms, they are trying to destroy Bitcoin and all of it's users plain and simple. Had they embraced Bitcoin to the fullest its value would triple overnight.

Good luck.  I'm sure you can convince Paypal to further bitcoin adoption and kill their own business as a result.

That makes sense. But there are many countries with regulations pertaining to currency exchange. Ebay may want to avoid becoming involved in disputes with various central banks until Bitcoin becomes a more established currency.

If you want to sell on ebay ,they stated that they only cover physical items ,you are free to offer services or digital items but in the case of a dispute or claim you will not be covered and could receive a warning .

I want the community to specifically point out that blockchain info is a bitcoin trusted public source that provide a searchable database to close the chargeback scam down on bitcoin transactions .

This service would be tracable unlike other digital /virtual items services ,in effect exclude bitcoin from this blanket ban they currently have .

FYI, in the interim, and I don't think it'll be necessary much longer, so I'll give away a "trade secret" here that we use at my company -- we take PayPal as payment for basically a brokerage service. (We do a lot more than this; this is perhaps 0.5% of our revenue, in this format. Probably less. If you can use PayPal, you usually can use a credit or debit card, or a bank transfer.) You don't pay us for bitcoins, you pay us to acquire them for you. Much like a lawyer could accept PayPal, so do we. Our fee happens to vary based on the market rate, but that is immaterial.

The contract you sign basically says, you agree to pay us X dollars for our services. Our service guarantees Y bitcoins in return, a time window for delivery (or sometimes a price range instead, so basically a limit order), and a location for delivery, which is a 3-way P2SH address for added security. You either get 2 of the 3 keys, and we have one, or you, we, and an arbiter get 1. The arbiter was more used in the beginning. Now we do more 2-of-3 P2SH. But anyway. At that time, you sign the second part of the contract where you agree you have received the services at the requested terms. No PayPal chargebacks possible.

Then we turn over our part of the key and you can go on your merry way. Note, the only risk to the buyer, is that we oddly decide to hold onto one of a 2-of-3 P2SH key, and neither of us can spend the coins; this is the same as if you wanted to do a chargeback and again, neither of us can spend the coins (this was the purpose of the arbiter, in case the market ate complete shit and the buyer felt it was worth it to skip the whole thing).

Yes, we still do this, so if you really are desperate to purchase BTC with PayPal, feel free to PM me.

Try Litecoinlocal if you wanna sell but are a small guy, there is no limit on how much LTC you need to have on your account in order to sell

For now I just want to show Blockchain.info as a reliable source to prove bitcoin actually was sent to the buyer .It will be a big hurdle crossed if people could simply contact them pointing this fact out .Then we can possibly add other obstacles.

ebay - paypal - credit card - bank

if ebay accepted bitcoins to be sold and offered seller protection, then paypal (separate office building) would still charge back in favour of customer, say thing their card details or password was stolen, even if delivery of product was proven, customer simply says they were not delivery recipient

if paypal changed their policies and put all bitcoin trades in favour of sellers, whether the customer claims theft, fraud, or hacking. the customer would then claim through their credit card company, which works in favour of customers, forcing paypal to then refund from the seller.

if credit card companies decided to not chargeback any paypal transactions, then the customer would go to the bank and claim through them.

in the end the scammers will always prefer to go through paypal as they know they have more then one company they can use to scam their refund through.

the short answer to all of this is to just avoid paypal/ebay if your a seller, no matter what you try you WILL be screwed over atleast 50% of the time

Paypal was genius, but constrained by working within the existing system. They have done fantastically in that regard. But to keep their licenses they must keep chargeback attempts below some threshold -- idr, but it is really small.


This is undoubtedly their plan. See previous comment.

Also, I may or may not have had the good fortune to be aware of what a certain ex-Paypal founder thinks about it as well. If Bitcoin is interesting to him, that should mean something too. Soon, Hyperloop transit links crowdfunded by Bitcoin early adopters, where the accepted payment is RFID bitcoin tokens just like the Pasmo system in Japan (you buy Pasmo at the gate if you don't have one). I'm not kidding, feel free to PM me regarding my plans on this if you are pretty "rich" in bitcoins.

Minimum balance limitations
 You need to have at least the advertisement minimum sell limit and 1 BTC available in your LocalBitcons.com wallet.


This is a copy paste from localbitcoin.com

Here is a link :-
https://localbitcoins.com/guides/how-to-sell-bitcoins-online

the text is half way down.