Topic: Ebay/paypal scam - page 2. (Read 12669 times)

Then I'll tell judge what Bitcoin is on the court. Seriously, only 200-250 people know Bitcoin thing in Turkey.
That's obvious you don't know anything about Turkish law system, too.

That makes you a scammer, not PayPal. If you agree to pay for something and receive that something, you have to pay for it. If not, you're a scammer.

In your case, the buyer still owes you the money they agreed to pay you, since they didn't pay it to you. If they're honest, they should still pay you. If they're dishonest, then they scammed you. PayPal and eBay don't provide seller protection for digital goods, you have to sue the buyer.

So, I can do the same thing to other Bitcoin sellers in eBay, right? Because they don't protect sellers, they protect only buyers. I can buy all bitcoins in eBay and I open disputes to all of them. And that doesn't make me a scammer, right? I like your style of thought.

PayPal is quite clear that there's no seller protection from sales of digital goods or direct payments. In your case, the buyer still owes you the money and, assuming they still want to pay you, they should pay you. PayPal can't force an unwilling buyer to pay you money. PayPal makes reversible payments, period. The buyer pays you so long as the buyer wants to pay you.

Paypal do not want your business.
They do not allow sales of Bitcoin.
If you ignore them, they will reverse the transaction and leave you and the buyer to sort it out.

It happened to me, too. Paypal & eBay scammed us. I sold bitcoins, I got positive feedback by buyer. Everything was looking normal. After 2 weeks I see the dispute. I sent all the proofs but they didn't do anything. Where's the seller protection?
Just stay away from those scammers.

Paypal User Agreement, section 10.2.d:

You agreed to it, whether you read it first or not.

And selling Bitcoins would probably be taken to fall under either: (Paypal Acceptable Use Policy)


or

No, I got you.

Right. PayPal decided to disintermediate itself, that is, it removed itself from the payment between you and the buyer. I'm assuming PayPal returned the funds to the buyer, and the buyer should have paid them to you. PayPal makes it very clear that their deposits are reversible and will be reversed if payments violate their ToS or if the buyer no longer wishes to make the payment.

Not knowing what evidence you presented in court or what arguments PayPal made, I can't tell whether the judge's ruling is correct or not. But just from what you said, PayPal didn't do anything wrong.

Again, I very much dislike PayPal. They massively screwed me over. I'd be the first to agree if they did anything wrong. But PayPal makes reversible payments, period. And PayPal reserves the right to remove themselves from a transaction they don't wish to be part of.

I Think you missed what I was saying. IN MY SITUATION....

1. The buyer did not do a charge back. <= buyer did not charge back nor did received funds back. Paypal held funds from me and reversed the BANK deposit that was completed quoting possible fraud.
2. I was AWARDED damages in District Court. = I sued I won

A District Judge made a decision thus your argument is invalid.
Also the rules of no e-currency and paypal was changed recently in 2013.

Yes, they do. I even explained why in the post you are responding to.

Whether or not there was a charge back has nothing to do with anything.

Fundamentally, Paypal is a reversible payment service. They deliver funds from one person to another, so long as the sender actually wants to send those funds. If the buyer doesn't want to pay the seller or the sale violates Paypal's terms, Paypal reserves the right to disintermediate themselves, leaving the buyer and seller to resolve their dispute.

In your case, Paypal decided to disintermediate themselves. This just means they refused to handle the payment. The buyer still owes you the money and can still pay you if they want to. It's not Paypal's job to make someone pay you if they don't want to pay you. And it should be 100% clear to everyone that Paypal does not ever confirm a payment is irreversibly made.

As has been explained on this forum and many others, this makes Paypal unsuitable for selling Bitcoins to people you don't trust because the Bitcoin payment is irreversible and the Paypal payment isn't. You chose to rely on the honesty of the buyer. If the buyer is dishonest, then you're screwed, and that's not Paypal's fault. If the buyer is honest, they should have paid you once they got their money back from Paypal.

Yes they do, you signed their TOS.

Paypal has no right to withdraw out of the bank account after the deposit is made, especially after 10 days. Anyways, I was awarded damages and collection cost. In my situation, there was no charge backs. Paypal withdrew money out of my account to hold funds and not because of charge backs.

The buyers still owe you the money, you should sue *them* not PayPal. Much as I dislike PayPal (many of you probably know my PayPal horror story) they are perfectly within their rights to disintermediate themselves from a transaction they don't wish to be a part of.

I just notice the date I the same time frame when Paypal F me over

Just to let you know I am Suing Paypal for the same thing, but I have proof that paypal is fraud. I had a friend paypal me for $110 stating its is for bitcoins. Even though my friend DID NOT make a claim, paypal reversed the money back to him...Paypal made there own judgement. I have lost $9000 over paypal where they deducted the funds out of my bank account AFTER 10 deposited into my account saying they suspected I was a scam when I had the account with them over 7 years AND a powerseller on ebay. They reversed not only the charges they thought was a fraud but reversed the bank deposits that was credit to my account OVER 10 days old. Left my account negative cause I wrote checks and wire more money to buy more BTC to sell. According to Paypal TOS you can only sue them individually now and not a class action suit. If you like to sue them and had significant loss, you can contact a local attorney to help you. It will cost $500 or so but you will get it back.

Latelly is alot of stealing bitcoins on ebay. Because buyers knows when they report a compromised account paypal will always no mather what give money back to buyer. No mather what evidence you provide to paypal that selling was regular and honest.
So I lost about 2BTC with that kind of cheating buyers and you can't do anything.
Banks don't wan't a currency which they can not controll so they will do anything to discredit BTC.
I will not use ebay anymore for selling BTCs even because they tax me for BTC and I don't know one country on the world which have tax for BTC.
And they tax BTC and tkeas fees for listing and also paypal takes 3,4% for money transfering to paypal account and some percent takes when you get money on your credit card. So at the end you find out that they take 20-30% of your money.

I cant wait for the day that all their scams catch up to them it is soon to come with all these crypto-currencies in the workings. I still feel bitcoins is in its baby stage. One day everyone in the world will be using some form of crypto-currency.

Sellers cannot leave negative feedback even on the most scummy thieving users - they disabled that because bad feedback on criminals makes for a "negative user experience". eBay universally screws the seller, since the seller will always be easier to get money from (even by sending to debt collection if you withdrew the money) than the criminal using a hacked account, and then they take away the feedback ability that would make eBay look like a scammer's paradise for doing this.

eBay used to be just about collecting exorbitant fees on money and merchandise they never touched (and just let people leave honest feedback), Then they got into the PayPal business (so they could move money around in their system with 3% friction until it is all theirs), but then they realized that they couldn't let themselves eat the cost of fraud.

+1 they could join up with crypto-currencies and make much more money instead they are trying to drive them away. Wonder who will win this fight? Maybe this time ebay/paypal got me but I'm sure as hell I won't be doing that again maybe even little to no business with either one of them anymore. In my eyes they completely scammed me.

Selling BTC on Ebay, totally against Ebay rules AND paypal policies is pretty dumb.