Topic: Ebay/Paypal's ridiculous fees - page 28. (Read 80966 times)
List an item in http://www.ebay.com/sch/Test-Auctions-/14112/i.html - pay no fees.
This is a perfect example of why bitcoin should advance as a payment system. I understand that companies need to make money... but really!?!
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Many out in the wild very likely and falsely believe the price of Bitcoin per bitcoin is too costly. So sad. So very sad for them
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Many out in the wild very likely and falsely believe the price of Bitcoin per bitcoin is too costly. So sad. So very sad for them
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I like to think I'm as objective as you can get and strive to be machine like in my thinking. But nonetheless, the silly monkey in me thinks bitcoins are too expensive. I mean I know they are divisible down to one satoshi, but that unit's too far the other way.
The core animal brain likes to think in "real life" tangible units, 1 apple carried in one pocket for one snack.
You tell a new person about bitcoin, when they find out just one costs $500 they think "holy shit I cant even afford one right now". People like to "own" at least one of something.
It's completely irrelevant from an engineering perspective, but as these tokens are designed for use by apes; psychology is very important.
A new fraction with a new name is needed.
Your last line hit on exactly what I was going to say. If we were to use mBTC or uBTC (which is what they are pushing for, as a "bit") as the base measurement, then a "coin" in that sense would be either 50 cents or 0.05 cents. This makes it much more affordable, despite being the same thing.
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Many out in the wild very likely and falsely believe the price of Bitcoin per bitcoin is too costly. So sad. So very sad for them
...
Many out in the wild very likely and falsely believe the price of Bitcoin per bitcoin is too costly. So sad. So very sad for them
...
I like to think I'm as objective as you can get and strive to be machine like in my thinking. But nonetheless, the silly monkey in me thinks bitcoins are too expensive. I mean I know they are divisible down to one satoshi, but that unit's too far the other way.
The core animal brain likes to think in "real life" tangible units, 1 apple carried in one pocket for one snack.
You tell a new person about bitcoin, when they find out just one costs $500 they think "holy shit I cant even afford one right now". People like to "own" at least one of something.
It's completely irrelevant from an engineering perspective, but as these tokens are designed for use by apes; psychology is very important.
A new fraction with a new name is needed.
I sold a few things on eBay the other day for the first time in a while and checking my fees I noticed on one item they'd actually charged me a final value fee of £0.24 on postage! When did they start doing that?
Probably over a year ago I'd say. They started giving free listings (instead of charging you a fee even if the item doesnt sell) but now charge their 10% final value fee on shipping charges as well. I know its backwards that they can do that, but they do. Like I said earlier, if you sell a lot, look into an eBay store. You get much better final value fees, and subscribing can pay for itself even if you only end up selling 1 larger value item a month.
Putting a fee on shipping was a response to sellers listing things for 99C with $30 shipping in order to circumvent fees. This practice went on for years.
That's really good to know about cryptothrift, I was a little hesitant about listing higher value items in case of a dispute, and not knowing how your process went.
I recently had a dispute on eBay where they admitted to me they don't even look at any screenshots or documents either party uploads to the resolution center. There said those are just for the buyer and sellers information so they will resolve an issue on their own. They seem to arbitrarily decide most cases, usually in favor of the buyer. And if a buyer happens to send you back a return package with nothing in it, they won't care even if you take a video showing that they are scamming you.
I recently had a dispute on eBay where they admitted to me they don't even look at any screenshots or documents either party uploads to the resolution center. There said those are just for the buyer and sellers information so they will resolve an issue on their own. They seem to arbitrarily decide most cases, usually in favor of the buyer. And if a buyer happens to send you back a return package with nothing in it, they won't care even if you take a video showing that they are scamming you.
This is pretty weird. My experience was different. I made a purchase and the guy I bought from ended up not sending. He ended up later being in jail for unrelated matters, but that's beside the point. PayPal wouldn't even assist me; they forced me to pursue it all through my credit card company, using PayPal as an intermediary between my CC company and the other party.
That's really good to know about cryptothrift, I was a little hesitant about listing higher value items in case of a dispute, and not knowing how your process went.
I recently had a dispute on eBay where they admitted to me they don't even look at any screenshots or documents either party uploads to the resolution center. There said those are just for the buyer and sellers information so they will resolve an issue on their own. They seem to arbitrarily decide most cases, usually in favor of the buyer. And if a buyer happens to send you back a return package with nothing in it, they won't care even if you take a video showing that they are scamming you.
I recently had a dispute on eBay where they admitted to me they don't even look at any screenshots or documents either party uploads to the resolution center. There said those are just for the buyer and sellers information so they will resolve an issue on their own. They seem to arbitrarily decide most cases, usually in favor of the buyer. And if a buyer happens to send you back a return package with nothing in it, they won't care even if you take a video showing that they are scamming you.
This is true, brick and mortar stores are all about their brand and service, in hope of securing repeat business and recommendations to others.
With eBay, the majority of sellers are individuals who cannot afford to take the hit if something goes wrong. eBay/PayPal don't always take the hit themselves, I mean sure they might front the refund to the buyer but they will usually slap the cost onto the seller.
I've heard of instances in the past where a merchant (in this case an established eBay seller) contacted a buyer to offer a partial refund in order to remove the negative feedback they left for something that they were dissatisfied with. That's just like a B&M store, that's where reputation, especially one that is so visible through feedback) trumps the margin on a single transaction.
Guess it all comes down to the circumstances.
With eBay, the majority of sellers are individuals who cannot afford to take the hit if something goes wrong. eBay/PayPal don't always take the hit themselves, I mean sure they might front the refund to the buyer but they will usually slap the cost onto the seller.
I've heard of instances in the past where a merchant (in this case an established eBay seller) contacted a buyer to offer a partial refund in order to remove the negative feedback they left for something that they were dissatisfied with. That's just like a B&M store, that's where reputation, especially one that is so visible through feedback) trumps the margin on a single transaction.
Guess it all comes down to the circumstances.
I think it's pretty hard to find a balance, and especially when PayPal is effectively acting as an escrow. There have been times where I have issues with orders and the question is who is telling the truth, me or the seller? He could mail a box of bricks, but how do I prove I didn't swap out the original item with bricks? He could mail a broken item, but how do I prove that? Conversely, always taking the seller's side causes problems because then buyers lose trust.
It's a tough situation!
Definitely, you're right about eBay/PayPal being an escrow of sorts. They take on a calculating financial risk and act as judge and jury when it comes to disputes, usually favouring the buyer, coming back to that point about a company taking a hit to keep people sweet and maintain their standards.
Of course, that's where all the fees come from. We pay the fees ultimately for the protection, a bit like insurance but on a transactional level. With bitcoin trades we try to simulate that process using a trusted escrow - one which they both agree on (could still get screwed over by the escrow lol).
Ironically, I woke up to read the escrow discussion after spending 3 hours last night over the from Australia to the US talking to Office Depot about a gift card dispute.
Unlike PayPal, which I believe their system is somehow great given the position they're in right now, we don't only gather facts from sellers and buyers and act upon them. Since the Bitcoin sphere is so thin and reputation driven, and as an escrow provider, we need to protect our reputation and make sure we're doing everything right to the best of our ability. This means if we can contact a third party for gather hard evidence we definitely will before making any decisions.
This is a very regular reoccurring case, we had an issue before with a CEX.io code sold on the site. Seller was selling 100Gh/s and the buyer claimed to have received 0.1Gh/s. We contacted CEX.io who were extremely helpful and confirmed the buyer's side of the story that the code was indeed for a 0.1Gh.
Office Depot said they have escalated to the correct team who will get back to us within 48, I hope they will be as helpful as other services.
On another note, our main issues are actually PayPal for Bitcoin sales. Regardless how hard we try to educate our users, some tend to be over trusting and don't see the possibility of scam attempts. We try our best to help those who do get charge backs after releasing escrow (very small %), but PayPal simply don't wanna hear about it when it comes to Bitcoin.
I know you might have read this 100 times already, but please Do Not be over trusting. Whether on CryptoThrift or any other place where you can spend your Bitcoins. Try to buy from highly reputable sellers, ALWAYS use escrow where available, NEVER release escrow before receiving and inspecting your item. And if you want to be super cautious, take a short video while opening a parcel or redeeming a gift card, it will always come in handy should there be any dispute.
Bitcoin Safely!
This is true, brick and mortar stores are all about their brand and service, in hope of securing repeat business and recommendations to others.
With eBay, the majority of sellers are individuals who cannot afford to take the hit if something goes wrong. eBay/PayPal don't always take the hit themselves, I mean sure they might front the refund to the buyer but they will usually slap the cost onto the seller.
I've heard of instances in the past where a merchant (in this case an established eBay seller) contacted a buyer to offer a partial refund in order to remove the negative feedback they left for something that they were dissatisfied with. That's just like a B&M store, that's where reputation, especially one that is so visible through feedback) trumps the margin on a single transaction.
Guess it all comes down to the circumstances.
With eBay, the majority of sellers are individuals who cannot afford to take the hit if something goes wrong. eBay/PayPal don't always take the hit themselves, I mean sure they might front the refund to the buyer but they will usually slap the cost onto the seller.
I've heard of instances in the past where a merchant (in this case an established eBay seller) contacted a buyer to offer a partial refund in order to remove the negative feedback they left for something that they were dissatisfied with. That's just like a B&M store, that's where reputation, especially one that is so visible through feedback) trumps the margin on a single transaction.
Guess it all comes down to the circumstances.
I think it's pretty hard to find a balance, and especially when PayPal is effectively acting as an escrow. There have been times where I have issues with orders and the question is who is telling the truth, me or the seller? He could mail a box of bricks, but how do I prove I didn't swap out the original item with bricks? He could mail a broken item, but how do I prove that? Conversely, always taking the seller's side causes problems because then buyers lose trust.
It's a tough situation!
Definitely, you're right about eBay/PayPal being an escrow of sorts. They take on a calculating financial risk and act as judge and jury when it comes to disputes, usually favouring the buyer, coming back to that point about a company taking a hit to keep people sweet and maintain their standards.
Of course, that's where all the fees come from. We pay the fees ultimately for the protection, a bit like insurance but on a transactional level. With bitcoin trades we try to simulate that process using a trusted escrow - one which they both agree on (could still get screwed over by the escrow lol).
This is true, brick and mortar stores are all about their brand and service, in hope of securing repeat business and recommendations to others.
With eBay, the majority of sellers are individuals who cannot afford to take the hit if something goes wrong. eBay/PayPal don't always take the hit themselves, I mean sure they might front the refund to the buyer but they will usually slap the cost onto the seller.
I've heard of instances in the past where a merchant (in this case an established eBay seller) contacted a buyer to offer a partial refund in order to remove the negative feedback they left for something that they were dissatisfied with. That's just like a B&M store, that's where reputation, especially one that is so visible through feedback) trumps the margin on a single transaction.
Guess it all comes down to the circumstances.
With eBay, the majority of sellers are individuals who cannot afford to take the hit if something goes wrong. eBay/PayPal don't always take the hit themselves, I mean sure they might front the refund to the buyer but they will usually slap the cost onto the seller.
I've heard of instances in the past where a merchant (in this case an established eBay seller) contacted a buyer to offer a partial refund in order to remove the negative feedback they left for something that they were dissatisfied with. That's just like a B&M store, that's where reputation, especially one that is so visible through feedback) trumps the margin on a single transaction.
Guess it all comes down to the circumstances.
I think it's pretty hard to find a balance, and especially when PayPal is effectively acting as an escrow. There have been times where I have issues with orders and the question is who is telling the truth, me or the seller? He could mail a box of bricks, but how do I prove I didn't swap out the original item with bricks? He could mail a broken item, but how do I prove that? Conversely, always taking the seller's side causes problems because then buyers lose trust.
It's a tough situation!
yes, those fees are quite high. This is not a technical problem, but a greed problem. Luckily we dont need them 
This is very true.
Quote
PayPal is one of life's biggest scams. They can also block you for no valid reaso
This is very true.
No sites as of now are even close to being as widely accepted as eBay and PayPal. Until this happens, they will still be prominent.
Without a doubt. One of the great things about eBay and PayPal is their safe transaction environment. Okay, security breaches aside, when it comes to their services they really protect the buyer, perhaps a little too much which can ultimately cost the seller, even if they have taken many measures to protect themselves.
There is definitely space for crypto auction sites to grow, but I think that these marketplaces will likely be escrow-driven, for a while at least.
I'd also like to add in that while they protect the buyer, this is generally the way businesses work. "The customer is always right." Any B&M store that cares about their customers would take a loss just to keep your business. PayPal just extends that to the online marketplace.
This is true, brick and mortar stores are all about their brand and service, in hope of securing repeat business and recommendations to others.
With eBay, the majority of sellers are individuals who cannot afford to take the hit if something goes wrong. eBay/PayPal don't always take the hit themselves, I mean sure they might front the refund to the buyer but they will usually slap the cost onto the seller.
I've heard of instances in the past where a merchant (in this case an established eBay seller) contacted a buyer to offer a partial refund in order to remove the negative feedback they left for something that they were dissatisfied with. That's just like a B&M store, that's where reputation, especially one that is so visible through feedback) trumps the margin on a single transaction.
Guess it all comes down to the circumstances.
yes, those fees are quite high. This is not a technical problem, but a greed problem. Luckily we dont need them
This is very true.
Quote
PayPal is one of life's biggest scams. They can also block you for no valid reaso
This is very true.
No sites as of now are even close to being as widely accepted as eBay and PayPal. Until this happens, they will still be prominent.
Without a doubt. One of the great things about eBay and PayPal is their safe transaction environment. Okay, security breaches aside, when it comes to their services they really protect the buyer, perhaps a little too much which can ultimately cost the seller, even if they have taken many measures to protect themselves.
There is definitely space for crypto auction sites to grow, but I think that these marketplaces will likely be escrow-driven, for a while at least.
I'd also like to add in that while they protect the buyer, this is generally the way businesses work. "The customer is always right." Any B&M store that cares about their customers would take a loss just to keep your business. PayPal just extends that to the online marketplace.
yes, those fees are quite high. This is not a technical problem, but a greed problem. Luckily we dont need them
This is very true.
Quote
PayPal is one of life's biggest scams. They can also block you for no valid reaso
This is very true.
No sites as of now are even close to being as widely accepted as eBay and PayPal. Until this happens, they will still be prominent.
Without a doubt. One of the great things about eBay and PayPal is their safe transaction environment. Okay, security breaches aside, when it comes to their services they really protect the buyer, perhaps a little too much which can ultimately cost the seller, even if they have taken many measures to protect themselves.
There is definitely space for crypto auction sites to grow, but I think that these marketplaces will likely be escrow-driven, for a while at least.
yes, those fees are quite high. This is not a technical problem, but a greed problem. Luckily we dont need them
This is very true.
Quote
PayPal is one of life's biggest scams. They can also block you for no valid reaso
This is very true.
No sites as of now are even close to being as widely accepted as eBay and PayPal. Until this happens, they will still be prominent.
yes, those fees are quite high. This is not a technical problem, but a greed problem. Luckily we dont need them
This is very true.
Quote
PayPal is one of life's biggest scams. They can also block you for no valid reaso
This is very true.
This is the Free Marketplace. Like it or not this is as good as it gets.
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Bitcoin is The Future.
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Bitcoin is The Future.
I know that this isn't relevant to the topic, but that image had me lolling for far too long.
It needs a tl;dr for sure. From what I can gauge from the post he was going on about how eBay has earned its position within the market and therefore has a stranglehold on what they can charge, but then I got lost in a sea of text.
Just checked the site, it has improved alot since i last checked. Do you have any plans on adding more crypto-currencies. Dogecoin and NXT for example.
Also you need to add a drop down menu for domestic only items, not items that ship to a certain country. Only way i can do this with your site is if i search for an item then filter that result to domestic only, which is an inconvenience.
Also you need to add a drop down menu for domestic only items, not items that ship to a certain country. Only way i can do this with your site is if i search for an item then filter that result to domestic only, which is an inconvenience.
Thanks for checking again and giving us a second chance.
We are working on more search filters including (domestic/international) with a drop down menu below the main search bar with all the options from the "Advanced Search" page to be available.
They used to accept alts such as FTC and a couple of others but removed them a couple of months or so so ago as people weren’t really using them. I'd like to see more alt coins added if the site grows though.
Yes, you're right. We had FTC, XPM, MNC, MAX and WDC alongside BTC and LTC, but we found that over the period of 3 months there was hardly any use of the coins. To be very honest, 3 coins didn't even have a single sale...
We are always looking into adding more coins as we see fit, but it's not our top priority at this stage as we focus more on functionality and users base
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Just checked the site, it has improved alot since i last checked. Do you have any plans on adding more crypto-currencies. Dogecoin and NXT for example.
They used to accept alts such as FTC and a couple of others but removed them a couple of months or so so ago as people weren’t really using them. I'd like to see more alt coins added if the site grows though.
Just thought I'd drop by and introduce myself and CryptoThrift.
First, I would like to thank those who have mentioned us and criticized us, it's appreciated.
We admit we're still nowhere near where we plan to be. We are adding new features on a weekly basis, enhancing the buying and selling experience for our users and making it as effortless as possible to sell, buy, release escrow or even get a refund.
We understand that the site doesn't look the best, but don't judge a book by its cover. A lot of "nice" looking sites were online for a short period of time before they got hacked, they closed down or they were found to be "not so legit" so to speak. Before we enhance the look of the site, we have great and exciting features to add, and we believe this is more important than the look of the site. That said, we are working on enhancing the current UI as we speak, but a full site rewrite is planned in the near future as well.
We are a registered business operating on Australian land and we are as transparent as you can get when operating an online business. The founders are both active members of the Bitcoin Associtation of Australia and invited members of the Bitcoin Professionals subgroup.
We are currently working on a major marketing campaign, including adverts on Bitcoin and Crypto related sites, blogs, Google ads, and various press publications. We have a big three months of advertising ahead of us and we believe we should be able to double our numbers of both buyers and sellers.
In terms of where we currently stand, May has been a very exciting month for us, we've broken new big numbers:
- 1,000,000 page views this month.
- 200,000 unique visitors
- 5,000+ registered users
Our short term plan is to increase the above figures by 2-3 fold in the next three months with advertising campaigns, a vouchers/referrals system, as well as few new features which will help our current and new users transact smoother than ever. We also have some exciting partnerships in the pipeline with some major players in the Bitcoin industry.
I would like to invite every one to give CryptoThrift a try and send us their feedback, it's the only way we can enhance what we have. If you have a Bitcoin related site and have spare ad spaces for sale, shoot us an email support[at]cryptothrift[dot]com we are looking for you. If you would like to partner with us and exchange advertising, we're also open for that.
First, I would like to thank those who have mentioned us and criticized us, it's appreciated.
We admit we're still nowhere near where we plan to be. We are adding new features on a weekly basis, enhancing the buying and selling experience for our users and making it as effortless as possible to sell, buy, release escrow or even get a refund.
We understand that the site doesn't look the best, but don't judge a book by its cover. A lot of "nice" looking sites were online for a short period of time before they got hacked, they closed down or they were found to be "not so legit" so to speak. Before we enhance the look of the site, we have great and exciting features to add, and we believe this is more important than the look of the site. That said, we are working on enhancing the current UI as we speak, but a full site rewrite is planned in the near future as well.
We are a registered business operating on Australian land and we are as transparent as you can get when operating an online business. The founders are both active members of the Bitcoin Associtation of Australia and invited members of the Bitcoin Professionals subgroup.
We are currently working on a major marketing campaign, including adverts on Bitcoin and Crypto related sites, blogs, Google ads, and various press publications. We have a big three months of advertising ahead of us and we believe we should be able to double our numbers of both buyers and sellers.
In terms of where we currently stand, May has been a very exciting month for us, we've broken new big numbers:
- 1,000,000 page views this month.
- 200,000 unique visitors
- 5,000+ registered users
Our short term plan is to increase the above figures by 2-3 fold in the next three months with advertising campaigns, a vouchers/referrals system, as well as few new features which will help our current and new users transact smoother than ever. We also have some exciting partnerships in the pipeline with some major players in the Bitcoin industry.
I would like to invite every one to give CryptoThrift a try and send us their feedback, it's the only way we can enhance what we have. If you have a Bitcoin related site and have spare ad spaces for sale, shoot us an email support[at]cryptothrift[dot]com we are looking for you. If you would like to partner with us and exchange advertising, we're also open for that.
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